thursday callin' from the fun house with my song

pinno

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

I thought Flan was a spring chicken?

Re-mapping a car is generally a bad idea.

An engine is R and Deed to the nth. Well, it evolves over time to be more efficient, more powerful, smoother. It is usually at it's optimum when it comes out of the factory. There is little safe, guaranteed mechanical leeway for alteration of it's pre-designed working limits.
Without dismantling and rebuilding it, adding power through various methods - turbo's, superchargers, high lift cams, re-mapping etc the strain is felt in the lower end of the engine. Mainly the big end bearings and journals. Whilst it gives power on the one hand, it shortens the life of the engine on the other.
A basic requirement would be to upgrade say the oil pump (if possible). The knock on effects of increasing power are multiple.
Unless the car is a performance vehicle in the first instance, re-mapping your daily run around is not a good idea.

So you don't reckon I should tune The Panzer then?

See the above.
However, what's a set of boots cost for that thing?

Matthewfalle

change of plan.

smash

#smash

pinno

Not TDV's friend surely?!?

pinno

Pinno wrote:

Not TDV's friend surely?!?

viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=13105586&p=20526102#p20526102

Matthewfalle

yup, that be the one.i don't think she deserves me though, tbh.......

step83

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

I thought Flan was a spring chicken?

Re-mapping a car is generally a bad idea.

An engine is R and Deed to the nth. Well, it evolves over time to be more efficient, more powerful, smoother. It is usually at it's optimum when it comes out of the factory. There is little safe, guaranteed mechanical leeway for alteration of it's pre-designed working limits.
Without dismantling and rebuilding it, adding power through various methods - turbo's, superchargers, high lift cams, re-mapping etc the strain is felt in the lower end of the engine. Mainly the big end bearings and journals. Whilst it gives power on the one hand, it shortens the life of the engine on the other.
A basic requirement would be to upgrade say the oil pump (if possible). The knock on effects of increasing power are multiple.
Unless the car is a performance vehicle in the first instance, re-mapping your daily run around is not a good idea.

So you don't reckon I should tune The Panzer then?

See the above.
However, what's a set of boots cost for that thing?

I had my Panzerkampfwagen remapped, admittedly it was factory detuned because VW decided to use the same PU and three engine maps depending how little performance you want. to be fair though a 108BHP diesel estate is gutless, a 145BHP one is more liveable

homers_double

Pretty much this /\, the engine is suppressed by its code, Merc use the same engine across a range of vehicles and just tune the brain to perform poorly to meet certain emissions etc.

Or so I've read on the internetz

pinno

Step83 wrote:

...108BHP diesel estate is gutless...

MK1 Escort RS 1600 = 115 hp.

Puts it into context.

step83

Pinno wrote:

Step83 wrote:

...108BHP diesel estate is gutless...

MK1 Escort RS 1600 = 115 hp.

Puts it into context.

True, but the escort weights nearly 800Kgs, my Passat weighs 1550Kg. Power to weight ratio is going to be quite noticeable to say the least. The Escorts power to weight is getting on for double the Passats.

HD, sounds familiar incidentally my old Saab was the same, identical engine across a chunk of the range (B207 which is a variation of the GM C20LET) running different maps, so the 1.8t I had at the time was actually a detuned 20.t. Took it to a Hirsh tuner which was Saab in Peterborough an they slapped the 2.0T hot map on it for me. Went from 150BHP to 210BHP and got a free badge (woo).

pinno

My SAAB was a 2.2T. Great in a straight line.
Hated corners.
Chomped front tyres, superb build quality but could never get on with front wheel drive.
Best thing about it was the heated seats. More buttons and dials than a 747.

step83

Pinno wrote:

My SAAB was a 2.2T. Great in a straight line.
Hated corners.
Chomped front tyres, superb build quality but could never get on with front wheel drive.
Best thing about it was the heated seats. More buttons and dials than a 747.

Sounds about right, I had a 9-3 Mk2 estate had some passive rear steer nonsense which did nothing, but yes show it a corner and it just couldn't deal with it, a mix of being nose heavy naturally designed to understeer and quite a lot of torque steer.
Did yours have the old school turbo setup? As in lag galore then all the power at once? I think that's why I went through so many tyres

Very over built for sure, but reassuringly so. Night mode button was great, centre ignition confused so many people.
Did like the seats though probably the most comfortable seats I've had in a car.

veronese68

Pinno wrote:

Re-mapping a car is generally a bad idea.

As in many examples given this is not the case much of the time, going too far may be a bad idea I agree. Most manufacturers have different specs of the same engine with the only difference being the mapping. Ferrari went a little further with the 360 Challenge I think it was, I was told that had a different throttle body as well as the different map. Engine internals were the same. VAG make a million varieties of the 1.9tdi with a variety of power outputs, one isn't fully blueprinted and balanced.
See what you've started HD.

pinno

Veronese68 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Re-mapping a car is generally a bad idea.

As in many examples given this is not the case much of the time, going too far may be a bad idea I agree. Most manufacturers have different specs of the same engine with the only difference being the mapping. Ferrari went a little further with the 360 Challenge I think it was, I was told that had a different throttle body as well as the different map. Engine internals were the same. VAG make a million varieties of the 1.9tdi with a variety of power outputs, one isn't fully blueprinted and balanced.
See what you've started HD.

I still cannot work out why you would want a 1650kg estate with 108bhp.
I can't work out who would buy it.
I can't work out why VW would even sell something like that.
Imagine 5 up with kit in the back and a roof box. I just hope it has heated rear screens to keep your hands warm when pushing it up a hill in the highlands.

#EastAngliaTouristBoard.

I declined a high lift cam for the Porker engine I rebuilt. Apparently, Porsche never got the overlap quite right. Cam: £184, ECU tweak (exchange) £330 to add 35bhp on a n/a engine,putting it close to the turbo version. Which is not bad but all I could think of is an engine with potentially another 180k on it or... popping it after 20k.

Stevo_666

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

I thought Flan was a spring chicken?

Re-mapping a car is generally a bad idea.

An engine is R and Deed to the nth. Well, it evolves over time to be more efficient, more powerful, smoother. It is usually at it's optimum when it comes out of the factory. There is little safe, guaranteed mechanical leeway for alteration of it's pre-designed working limits.
Without dismantling and rebuilding it, adding power through various methods - turbo's, superchargers, high lift cams, re-mapping etc the strain is felt in the lower end of the engine. Mainly the big end bearings and journals. Whilst it gives power on the one hand, it shortens the life of the engine on the other.
A basic requirement would be to upgrade say the oil pump (if possible). The knock on effects of increasing power are multiple.
Unless the car is a performance vehicle in the first instance, re-mapping your daily run around is not a good idea.

So you don't reckon I should tune The Panzer then?

See the above.
However, what's a set of boots cost for that thing?

£150-£180 for the fronts and £200-£250 for the rears depending what brand of rubber. Although ESP and traction control very handing for avoiding shredding tyres when you don't want to.

Mind you, my question above wasn't entirely serious - I don't need any more power and it's not often I've said that

tlw1

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

I thought Flan was a spring chicken?

Re-mapping a car is generally a bad idea.

An engine is R and Deed to the nth. Well, it evolves over time to be more efficient, more powerful, smoother. It is usually at it's optimum when it comes out of the factory. There is little safe, guaranteed mechanical leeway for alteration of it's pre-designed working limits.
Without dismantling and rebuilding it, adding power through various methods - turbo's, superchargers, high lift cams, re-mapping etc the strain is felt in the lower end of the engine. Mainly the big end bearings and journals. Whilst it gives power on the one hand, it shortens the life of the engine on the other.
A basic requirement would be to upgrade say the oil pump (if possible). The knock on effects of increasing power are multiple.
Unless the car is a performance vehicle in the first instance, re-mapping your daily run around is not a good idea.

So you don't reckon I should tune The Panzer then?

See the above.
However, what's a set of boots cost for that thing?

£150-£180 for the fronts and £200-£250 for the rears depending what brand of rubber. Although ESP and traction control very handing for avoiding shredding tyres when you don't want to.

Mind you, my question above wasn't entirely serious - I don't need any more power and it's not often I've said that

Whilst the esp and traction are there, I’m about to hit 12 tyres in just under three years on mine

pinno

Step83 wrote:

Did yours have the old school turbo setup? As in lag galore then all the power at once? I think that's why I went through so many tyres

Yup - mine was the saloon version. All that weight and propulsion on the front wheels.



Loved the 'Hammerhead' alloys.

Stevo 666 wrote:

Mind you, my question above wasn't entirely serious - I don't need any more power and it's not often I've said that

I thought going to to Dagenham and racing the Ford boys off the lights followed by a Dog Burger and a chinwag would be Saturday nights sorted for you.

pinno

TLW1 wrote:

Whilst the esp and traction are there, I’m about to hit 12 tyres in just under three years on mine

Company miles, free tyres (I suspect) and you're always in a hurry to get to the pub.

step83

Pinno wrote:

I still cannot work out why you would want a 1650kg estate with 108bhp.
I can't work out who would buy it.
I can't work out why VW would even sell something like that.
Imagine 5 up with kit in the back and a roof box. I just hope it has heated rear screens to keep your hands warm when pushing it up a hill in the highlands.

#EastAngliaTouristBoard.

Don't turn the air con on!

Just looked it up on Parkers

Power 108 bhp
Top Speed 119 mph
0-60 mph 11.4 secs
Torque 250 Nm, 184 ft-lb

Luggage Capacity 513 litres
Unbraked Towing Weight 750kg
Braked Towing Weight 1500kg

How the heck it can tow 750Kg for starters is beyond me, doubt it would even work in East Anglia, Netherlands perhaps!

Remap has made it very liveable, 146BHP and 330Nm torque DPF etc intact, quite how companies can advertise removing it is beyond me as you shouldnt be able to pass an MOT if its been tampered with or removed

An I see a Mk1, better build bar the firewall bulkhead issues least I think that it was those that had it? Do like those hammer heads, I had the standard Y spokes on mine. Ill find a photo later, was affectionately known at the hearse reasons will become clear when you see it. though the full 3" system bigger turbo injectors and IC made it not really suitable for those events, lots of turbo spool noise and wastegate noise.

Stevo_666

TLW1 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

I thought Flan was a spring chicken?

Re-mapping a car is generally a bad idea.

An engine is R and Deed to the nth. Well, it evolves over time to be more efficient, more powerful, smoother. It is usually at it's optimum when it comes out of the factory. There is little safe, guaranteed mechanical leeway for alteration of it's pre-designed working limits.
Without dismantling and rebuilding it, adding power through various methods - turbo's, superchargers, high lift cams, re-mapping etc the strain is felt in the lower end of the engine. Mainly the big end bearings and journals. Whilst it gives power on the one hand, it shortens the life of the engine on the other.
A basic requirement would be to upgrade say the oil pump (if possible). The knock on effects of increasing power are multiple.
Unless the car is a performance vehicle in the first instance, re-mapping your daily run around is not a good idea.

So you don't reckon I should tune The Panzer then?

See the above.
However, what's a set of boots cost for that thing?

£150-£180 for the fronts and £200-£250 for the rears depending what brand of rubber. Although ESP and traction control very handing for avoiding shredding tyres when you don't want to.

Mind you, my question above wasn't entirely serious - I don't need any more power and it's not often I've said that

Whilst the esp and traction are there, I’m about to hit 12 tyres in just under three years on mine

I've only done a shade over 3,000 miles in mine so far and a fair few of those on motorways, so the pain is still to come. Restraint is needed as it's chucking out peak torque from below 2,000rpm.

Luckily the complimentary track/ handling/ skid pan day at Brooklands is in one of the Merc fleet cars...

pinno

I would love to have a crack on a skid pan.

Stevo_666

Pinno wrote:

I would love to have a crack on a skid pan.

I thought everyone got a go when they bought a Merc?

step83

We get things come through with work from Silverstone etc about skid pan events. Ill bung it up when we next get them. The Millbrook ones dont come up often because the car companies dont want the risk or normal people seeing pre prod cars.

Matthewfalle

Pinno wrote:

I would love to have a crack on a skid pan.

i did one at Mallory on my high speed/blue lights driving course - really really good fun, loads if learning but huge laughs: very recommended.

rear wheel drive beemer and a front wheel drive something.

#giggles

hopkinb

When I first got my Focus ST (literally on the way home from the garage), i thought it would be fun to turn off the traction control and bury it on the way out of a roundabout. I soon discovered that my driving skills were not up to snuff as all that 200+ horsepower was deployed. I just about stopped a full spin, but biffed a kerb so hard that the rear drivers side wheel ended up horizontal. I learned to love that car, but also learned a valuable lesson that I should have picked up from Top Gun about my ego writing cheques that my body couldn't cash.
Remarkably, I was on 7 days free insurance with Ford, who coughed up the 5k it cost to fix, and it never affected future policies.
I now rarely exceed 20 mph, mainly because of where I live..

Matthewfalle

i remember covering S/E England on the ambulances: high speed blue light runs at plus double speed limits for miles and miles and miles and miles. Occasionally you'd get some chav trying to race which was always fun.

closest thing to Top Gun on the road but all safe as poss and within personal driving limits.

plus the occasional handbrake turn for the ladies.

#skidderinthecarpark

hopkinb

Matthewfalle wrote:

i remember covering S/E England on the ambulances: high speed blue light runs at plus double speed limits for miles and miles and miles and miles. Occasionally you'd get some chav trying to race which was always fun.

closest thing to Top Gun on the road but all safe as poss and within personal driving limits.

plus the occasional handbrake turn for the ladies.

#skidderinthecarpark

Talking of which, when my Issie went into septic shock whilst on holiday on the isle of white, we were blue lit in a paed icu ambulance from Portsmouth to st George's in tooting in 50 mins. Mental. They would have driven over the Solent if they could, but we had to wait for the ferry. Super team of very highly skilled individuals, who stabilised a very sick little girl when the local hospital could not, and tried to impress on her father what a serious situation it was.

All I remember properly is being offered polo mints by pretty nurse to combat the travel sickness, and pointing out where I live as we sped past.

They called picu at st George's the next day and were delighted that she had survived the night.

I hesitate to use a hashtag, or be too political, but:

#dedicated
#thankfuckforthenhs

step83

The old hearse. 240hp/375nm of utter mayhem.

Hirsch stage 2 ish map
TD04-14t turbo and forge blow off valve in place of the GT2052
Do88 larger intercooler and pipework
BSR induction kit with heat shield with 3" intake
3" turbo back exhaust with cat from the V6 then cat back non resonated exhaust single baffle exhaust

Strut brace and coilover kit polybushed engine mounts an some of the steering joints



Do miss that car, great fun to drive just cost too much to run.

pinno

That's s lot of kit Step (and a lot of vibration?).

Some of us have high regard for the NHS Hoppy.

step83

Pinno wrote:

That's s lot of kit Step (and a lot of vibration?).

Some of us have high regard for the NHS Hoppy.

Yes I couldn't hold it on the clutch for long as it shook you too pieces.

Matthewfalle

Step83 wrote:

The old hearse. 240hp/375nm of utter mayhem.

Hirsch stage 2 ish map
TD04-14t turbo and forge blow off valve in place of the GT2052
Do88 larger intercooler and pipework
BSR induction kit with heat shield with 3" intake
3" turbo back exhaust with cat from the V6 then cat back non resonated exhaust single baffle exhaust

Strut brace and coilover kit polybushed engine mounts an some of the steering joints



Do miss that car, great fun to drive just cost too much to run.

is that the v6 2.3 twin turbo?