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GVA

pinnopinno Posts: 45,289
edited March 2019 in Pro race
2 great seasons: 2017 and 2018.

The rest of his palmares is littered with 2nd's and 3rd's and 4th's and 5th's... bar a few TT wins and lesser race victories. There's a few minor tour wins in there. Did he initially have pretensions of being a tour rider and ended up being a one day rider?

Again already, with the season kicking off with K-B-K and Omloop, a missed opportunity taken by Stybar.
What's going on?
Wrong team?
Tactically lacking?
A marked man (due to his sprint at the end of 200k's) who can't shake off the wheel suckers like others (Sagan, Museeuw, Merckx, Cancellara, Van Petegem)?

I personally think his whole career will be seen as 1 inch (sorry, 25.4mm) away from something stratospheric.

Maybe I am bias as I am a Quick step - Diceyeunich fan. Maybe, I just find hum dull.
seanoconn - gruagach craic!
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  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,870
    edited March 2019
    Pinno wrote:
    Did he initially have pretensions of being a tour rider and ended up being a one day rider?
    He started out as a sprinter. Not a good one.

    But it's strange, apart from winning Paris-Roubaix, the Olympics, Gent-Wevelgem, E3 Harelbeke, GP de Montréal, Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Paris–Tours, Tirreno-Adriatico, the Tour of Belgium, the Tour of Yorkshire, two Tour de France stages, the Vuelta points jersey and five Flandrien awards, he has very little to show for his abilities.

    Right now Quick-Step are very dominant, more so than Sky who are (usually) riding for one man. Anyone from QS could win in any given race.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • m.r.m.m.r.m. Posts: 2,590
    Would have been a good mic drop, but you had to add the Tour of Yorkshire... :wink:
    PTP Champion 2019
  • ShutupJensShutupJens Posts: 1,373
    Remind me again, the number of riders who have won on the opening weekend and then gone on to win a Flanders or Roubaix in the same year?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 60,912 Lives Here
    Would be a different story if he’d ridden for QS and hadn’t had a falling out with Gilbert in the early teens.
  • AlejandrosdogAlejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    he's a great rider, but very difficult to take on QS at the moment. I wonder if he thought "whats the point" at any point last year?
  • philbar72philbar72 Posts: 2,228
    Sean Kelly said during one Milan san remo about his sprint "He hasn't got one". basically after a hard 200+km race and as long as the last hill doesn't have pure climbers up a steep ramp, he'll be a favourite as he will wear down a group and finishes fast without actually having the top end to get away ( against say a Degenkolb/ Sagan). he is a classy bike rider and him and Gilbert shouldn't have been in the same team for so long. didn't realise they had "serious" history?

    also re his tour stages he is a far better climber on longer climbs than he's given credit for.... and a superb team time triallist.

    I think this year might be his year for Flanders. then again...
  • pinnopinno Posts: 45,289
    RichN95 wrote:
    But it's strange, apart from winning Paris-Roubaix, the Olympics, Gent-Wevelgem, E3 Harelbeke, GP de Montréal, Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Paris–Tours, Tirreno-Adriatico, the Tour of Belgium, the Tour of Yorkshire, two Tour de France stages, the Vuelta points jersey and five Flandrien awards, he has very little to show for his abilities.

    I get your point and at no point did I say that he is a bad rider but he has missed countless opportunities to be on the top step of the podium.

    2006
    1st MaillotBélgica.PNG Road race, National Under–23 Road Championships
    1st Internationale Wielertrofee Jong Maar Moedig
    1st Kattekoers
    2nd Paris–Tours Espoirs
    4th Grand Prix de Waregem
    9th Druivenkoers Overijse

    2007
    1st Rund um die Hainleite
    1st Memorial Rik Van Steenbergen
    1st Stage 5 Tour of Qatar
    1st Stage 2 Tour de Wallonie
    3rd Ronde van het Groene Hart
    3rd GP Briek Schotte
    4th Grand Prix d'Isbergues
    4th Nokere Koerse
    5th Grand Prix of Aargau Canton
    6th Overall Tour de Picardie
    6th Halle–Ingooigem
    8th Vattenfall Cyclassics
    9th Overall Tour of Belgium

    2008
    Vuelta a España
    1st Jersey blue Points classification
    1st Stage 9
    1st Stage 2 Tour de l'Ain
    2nd Overall Tour of Belgium
    1st Stage 3
    2nd Overall Tour de Wallonie
    1st Stage 3
    3rd Overall Tour of Qatar
    3rd E3 Prijs Vlaanderen
    4th Road race, National Road Championships
    7th Overall Tour de Picardie
    7th GP Ouest–France
    7th Grote Prijs Stad Zottegem
    8th Tour of Flanders

    2009
    1st Heistse Pijl
    4th Road race, National Road Championships
    4th Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
    4th Halle–Ingooigem
    5th Overall Tour of Belgium
    5th Grand Prix d'Isbergues
    6th Grote Prijs Jef Scherens
    9th Grand Prix of Aargau Canton

    2010
    3rd Halle–Ingooigem
    4th Road race, National Road Championships
    5th Road race, UCI Road World Championships
    7th Grote Prijs Stad Zottegem
    8th Brabantse Pijl
    9th Overall Tour de l'Ain

    2011
    1st Jersey yellow Overall Tour de Wallonie
    1st Stage 5
    Tour of Austria
    1st Jersey red Points classification
    1st Stage 6
    1st Paris–Tours
    2nd Overall Tour of Belgium
    2nd Gran Piemonte
    3rd Clásica de San Sebastián
    4th Halle–Ingooigem
    7th Liège–Bastogne–Liège
    7th Binche–Chimay–Binche
    9th Milan–San Remo
    9th Strade Bianche

    2012
    2nd Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec
    2nd Grand Prix de Wallonie
    4th Tour of Flanders
    5th Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
    5th Strade Bianche
    5th Brabantse Pijl
    6th Paris–Tours
    8th Gran Piemonte
    9th Trofeo Deià

    2013
    1st Jersey yellow Overall Tour de Wallonie
    1st Jersey blue Points classification
    1st Stages 3 & 5
    1st Stage 1 Tour of Utah
    3rd Gent–Wevelgem
    3rd Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec
    3rd Binche–Chimay–Binche
    4th Paris–Roubaix
    4th Gullegem Koerse
    4th Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal
    5th Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
    6th Overall Tour of Qatar
    1st Stage 2 (TTT)
    6th Strade Bianche
    6th Brabantse Pijl
    6th Grand Prix of Aargau Canton
    7th Tour of Flanders

    2014
    1st Grand Prix de Wallonie
    1st GP Impanis-Van Petegem
    2nd Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
    2nd Tour of Flanders
    4th Binche–Chimay–Binche
    5th Overall Eneco Tour
    1st Stage 5
    5th Road race, UCI Road World Championships
    5th Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec
    7th Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal
    8th Clásica de San Sebastián
    10th Overall Tour of Belgium
    10th E3 Harelbeke

    2015
    1st Jersey red Overall Tour of Belgium
    1st Stage 4
    Tour de France
    1st Stages 9 (TTT) & 13
    1st Stage 3 Tirreno–Adriatico
    2nd Overall Eneco Tour
    2nd Strade Bianche
    3rd Road race, National Road Championships
    3rd Tour of Flanders
    3rd Paris–Roubaix
    3rd Paris–Tours
    5th Overall Tour of Qatar
    5th Amstel Gold Race
    5th Vattenfall Cyclassics
    6th Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
    7th Overall Tour de Yorkshire
    8th UCI World Tour
    10th Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec

    2016
    1st Gold medal olympic Road race, Olympic Games
    1st Jersey blue Overall Tirreno–Adriatico
    1st Stages 1 (TTT) & 6
    1st Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal
    1st Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
    Tour de France
    1st Stage 5
    Held Jersey yellow after Stages 5–7
    1st Gullegem Koerse
    2nd Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec
    3rd Overall Tour of Qatar
    3rd Road race, National Road Championships
    4th Overall Eneco Tour
    1st Stage 5 (TTT)
    4th Binche–Chimay–Binche
    5th Milan–San Remo
    5th Clásica de San Sebastián
    6th UCI World Tour
    6th Strade Bianche
    9th Gent–Wevelgem
    10th Road race, UCI Road World Championships

    2017
    1st UCI World Tour
    1st Paris–Roubaix
    1st Gent–Wevelgem
    1st E3 Harelbeke
    1st Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
    1st Jersey gold.svg Overall Tour de Luxembourg
    1st Jersey blue.svg Points classification
    1st Stages 2 & 4
    1st Stage 1 (TTT) Tirreno–Adriatico
    1st Stage 1 (TTT) Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana
    2nd Tour of Flanders
    2nd Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec
    2nd Strade Bianche
    4th Overall BinckBank Tour
    6th Road race, UCI Road World Championships
    7th Kuurne–Brussels–Kuurne
    7th Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal
    8th Clásica de San Sebastián
    10th Bretagne Classic

    2018
    1st MaillotCyan Overall Tour de Yorkshire
    1st Jersey green Points classification
    Tour de France
    1st Stage 3 (TTT)
    Held Jersey yellow after Stages 3–10
    Jersey red number Combativity award Stage 10
    1st Stage 3 Tour of Oman
    1st Stage 1 (TTT) Tirreno–Adriatico
    1st Stage 1 (TTT) Tour de Suisse
    1st Stage 3 (TTT) Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana
    2nd Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec
    3rd Bronze medal blank.svg Team time trial, UCI Road World Championships
    3rd E3 Harelbeke
    3rd Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal
    4th Paris–Roubaix
    4th Clásica de San Sebastián
    5th UCI World Tour
    5th Tour of Flanders
    6th Overall BinckBank Tour
    8th Dwars door Vlaanderen
    2019
    1st Stage 3 Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana
    2nd Omloop Het Nieuwsblad

    As you can see above, 2017 was an exceptional year.

    Let's look at the monuments/classics:
    1 Paris roubaix
    2 Omloop(s)
    1 E3 Harelbeke
    1 Ghent Wevelgem
    1 Paris-tours

    Gilbert:

    Flanders - 1
    LBL - 1
    Lombardy - 2
    Omloop - 2
    Strade Bianchi - 1
    Brabantse - 2
    Amstel gold - 4
    Fleche Wallone - 1
    San Sebastian - 1
    Paris Tours - 2

    I wished that Gilbert had tried Roubaix more often. Lesser cyclists have won it.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • joey54321joey54321 Posts: 1,297
    That's true of so many riders though. If you look through Sagan's result he has 95 2nd places and 47 3rd places compared to 110 wins. No one will think of Sagan as a 'nearly man'. Sagan is exceptional, GVA is a good rider but being outside the quickstep in the classics season means it's always going to be hard.

    Edit: I didn't add up the numbers myself, they're on wiki
  • pinnopinno Posts: 45,289
    joey54321 wrote:
    Edit: I didn't add up the numbers myself, they're on wiki

    Me neither.

    My argument is this: GVA was this close ---> <--- to being stratospheric.
    If you designated a points system for all his results, he would be up there with the legends but he will be remembered only for the wins in the Monuments and classics.
    Take Museeuw; 3 Flanders and 3 Paris Roubaix but not a lot else really yet he is a legend.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • phreakphreak Posts: 2,546
    Pinno wrote:
    joey54321 wrote:
    Edit: I didn't add up the numbers myself, they're on wiki

    Me neither.

    My argument is this: GVA was this close ---> <--- to being stratospheric.
    If you designated a points system for all his results, he would be up there with the legends but he will be remembered only for the wins in the Monuments and classics.
    Take Museeuw; 3 Flanders and 3 Paris Roubaix but not a lot else really yet he is a legend.

    If you compare their CQ rankings, bar 2011 when Gilbert won everything, GvA has been consistently ahead of Gilbert (indeed he has scored better in 5 of the last 6 years).
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,362
    joey54321 wrote:
    That's true of so many riders though. If you look through Sagan's result he has 95 2nd places and 47 3rd places compared to 110 wins. No one will think of Sagan as a 'nearly man'. Sagan is exceptional, GVA is a good rider but being outside the quickstep in the classics season means it's always going to be hard.

    Edit: I didn't add up the numbers myself, they're on wiki
    There was a time when we made jokes about who would come second in a sprint between Sagan and GVA as they had so many 2nd places between them.

    Obviously that was before Sagan got properly going.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,870
    Pinno wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    But it's strange, apart from winning Paris-Roubaix, the Olympics, Gent-Wevelgem, E3 Harelbeke, GP de Montréal, Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Paris–Tours, Tirreno-Adriatico, the Tour of Belgium, the Tour of Yorkshire, two Tour de France stages, the Vuelta points jersey and five Flandrien awards, he has very little to show for his abilities.

    I get your point and at no point did I say that he is a bad rider but he has missed countless opportunities to be on the top step of the podium.
    Basically, he doesn't have a special move like the really prolific winners (of which there have only really been three in the 21st century). He can't sprint like Sagan and Boonen and he can't time time trial like Cancellara
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ContrelaMontreContrelaMontre Posts: 3,027
    He finished second at OHN so is going to win RVV this year

    Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster
  • pinnopinno Posts: 45,289
    He finished second at OHN so is going to win RVV this year

    Non, ces't pas vrais. Il viendra 2ème ou 3ème ou 4ème ou 5ème ...
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 60,912 Lives Here
    Verkeerde taal.

    Hij is vlaams, niet waloon.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 7,783
    Was he a bit of a late developer ? I think he's probably been short of absolute top class - your Boonens, Sagans, Cancellaras etc - for most of his career and then he has been up against a dominant Quickstep in more recent years. I wouldn't say he's necessarily underachieved - maybe could have had one or two more big wins but he may still get them.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • pinnopinno Posts: 45,289
    33 - 34 in May. Many tail off at this point.
    But i'm sure there will be more victories for him.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 5,259
    An Andy Murray in the djok, fed, Nadal generation.
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,843
    Pinno wrote:
    Take Museeuw; 3 Flanders and 3 Paris Roubaix but not a lot else really yet he is a legend.

    Really? He won the Worlds, Tour stages, countless stages in what are now WT races, plus lots of one day races and he came back from two injuries that could've ended his career.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 45,289
    andyp wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    Take Museeuw; 3 Flanders and 3 Paris Roubaix but not a lot else really yet he is a legend.

    Really? He won the Worlds, Tour stages, countless stages in what are now WT races, plus lots of one day races and he came back from two injuries that could've ended his career.

    I don't know what happened there.
    Just been over his stats and yes, he was prolific, My excuse is that he was in the era where I had to go to friends' houses to watch Eurosport :D
    Although in hindsight, slightly controversial in terms of doping.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,843
    I think you're being very kind to say he was slightly controversial - I don't think there is any doubt that he was doping throughout much of his career.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 45,289
    andyp wrote:
    I think you're being very kind to say he was slightly controversial - I don't think there is any doubt that he was doping throughout much of his career.

    Lemond commented about the change that came in '92/'93, He talked with Andy Hampsten because they couldn't beleive how much faster everyone was going. The dawn of the EPO era.
    I guess it's down to us (in hindsight), to see the Museeuw's, the Jalabert's, the Zabel's etc as people who were the better cyclists in this level playing field where everyone was 'at it'.
    Or you take the view that some people would have responded better to drugs than others or, had better management of doses/types of enhancement.
    Or we delete all records between 1940(?) and 2007*.

    *Taking performance enhancing substances was seen as innovative in the 30's.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • RichN95 wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    But it's strange, apart from winning Paris-Roubaix, the Olympics, Gent-Wevelgem, E3 Harelbeke, GP de Montréal, Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Paris–Tours, Tirreno-Adriatico, the Tour of Belgium, the Tour of Yorkshire, two Tour de France stages, the Vuelta points jersey and five Flandrien awards, he has very little to show for his abilities.

    I get your point and at no point did I say that he is a bad rider but he has missed countless opportunities to be on the top step of the podium.
    Basically, he doesn't have a special move like the really prolific winners (of which there have only really been three in the 21st century). He can't sprint like Sagan and Boonen and he can't time time trial like Cancellara

    You make it sound like streetfighter. Finish him
  • WheelspinnerWheelspinner Posts: 5,854
    RichN95 wrote:
    Pinno wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    But it's strange, apart from winning Paris-Roubaix, the Olympics, Gent-Wevelgem, E3 Harelbeke, GP de Montréal, Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Paris–Tours, Tirreno-Adriatico, the Tour of Belgium, the Tour of Yorkshire, two Tour de France stages, the Vuelta points jersey and five Flandrien awards, he has very little to show for his abilities.

    I get your point and at no point did I say that he is a bad rider but he has missed countless opportunities to be on the top step of the podium.
    Basically, he doesn't have a special move like the really prolific winners (of which there have only really been three in the 21st century). He can't sprint like Sagan and Boonen and he can't time time trial like Cancellara

    Mark Cavendish called. He'd like a word, round the back of the shed please.
    Open O-1.0 Open One+ BMC TE29 Titus Racer X Ti Seven 622SL Kestrel RT1000 On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 5,259
    Cigarette or censored ?
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,870
    Cigarette or censored ?
    Porn mags. In April you won't be able to get it on the internet. Jazz Mags are back.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • pinnopinno Posts: 45,289
    RichN95 wrote:
    Cigarette or censored ?
    Porn mags. In April you won't be able to get it on the internet. Jazz Mags are back.

    And how do you know this?!
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,870
    Mark Cavendish called. He'd like a word, round the back of the shed please.
    Prolific winners of classics/monuments I meant. While Cavendish has KBK, Scheldijprijs and MSR, he's not troubled the scorers on the big cobbled races.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,870
    Pinno wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Cigarette or censored ?
    Porn mags. In April you won't be able to get it on the internet. Jazz Mags are back.

    And how do you know this?!
    Twitter. Apparently UK citizens need to get a porn pass (blue naturally) to access porn online.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • gethincerigethinceri Posts: 1,215
    I'd better buy some replacement attic insulation then.
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