GVA

pinno

2 great seasons: 2017 and 2018.

The rest of his palmares is littered with 2nd's and 3rd's and 4th's and 5th's... bar a few TT wins and lesser race victories. There's a few minor tour wins in there. Did he initially have pretensions of being a tour rider and ended up being a one day rider?

Again already, with the season kicking off with K-B-K and Omloop, a missed opportunity taken by Stybar.
What's going on?
Wrong team?
Tactically lacking?
A marked man (due to his sprint at the end of 200k's) who can't shake off the wheel suckers like others (Sagan, Museeuw, Merckx, Cancellara, Van Petegem)?

I personally think his whole career will be seen as 1 inch (sorry, 25.4mm) away from something stratospheric.

Maybe I am bias as I am a Quick step - Diceyeunich fan. Maybe, I just find hum dull.

RichN95.

Pinno wrote:

Did he initially have pretensions of being a tour rider and ended up being a one day rider?

He started out as a sprinter. Not a good one.

But it's strange, apart from winning Paris-Roubaix, the Olympics, Gent-Wevelgem, E3 Harelbeke, GP de Montréal, Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Paris–Tours, Tirreno-Adriatico, the Tour of Belgium, the Tour of Yorkshire, two Tour de France stages, the Vuelta points jersey and five Flandrien awards, he has very little to show for his abilities.

Right now Quick-Step are very dominant, more so than Sky who are (usually) riding for one man. Anyone from QS could win in any given race.

m.r.m.

Would have been a good mic drop, but you had to add the Tour of Yorkshire...

ShutupJens

Remind me again, the number of riders who have won on the opening weekend and then gone on to win a Flanders or Roubaix in the same year?

rick_chasey

Would be a different story if he’d ridden for QS and hadn’t had a falling out with Gilbert in the early teens.

Alejandrosdog

he's a great rider, but very difficult to take on QS at the moment. I wonder if he thought "whats the point" at any point last year?

philbar72

Sean Kelly said during one Milan san remo about his sprint "He hasn't got one". basically after a hard 200+km race and as long as the last hill doesn't have pure climbers up a steep ramp, he'll be a favourite as he will wear down a group and finishes fast without actually having the top end to get away ( against say a Degenkolb/ Sagan). he is a classy bike rider and him and Gilbert shouldn't have been in the same team for so long. didn't realise they had "serious" history?

also re his tour stages he is a far better climber on longer climbs than he's given credit for.... and a superb team time triallist.

I think this year might be his year for Flanders. then again...

pinno

RichN95 wrote:

But it's strange, apart from winning Paris-Roubaix, the Olympics, Gent-Wevelgem, E3 Harelbeke, GP de Montréal, Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Paris–Tours, Tirreno-Adriatico, the Tour of Belgium, the Tour of Yorkshire, two Tour de France stages, the Vuelta points jersey and five Flandrien awards, he has very little to show for his abilities.

I get your point and at no point did I say that he is a bad rider but he has missed countless opportunities to be on the top step of the podium.

2006
1st MaillotBélgica.PNG Road race, National Under–23 Road Championships
1st Internationale Wielertrofee Jong Maar Moedig
1st Kattekoers
2nd Paris–Tours Espoirs
4th Grand Prix de Waregem
9th Druivenkoers Overijse

2007
1st Rund um die Hainleite
1st Memorial Rik Van Steenbergen
1st Stage 5 Tour of Qatar
1st Stage 2 Tour de Wallonie
3rd Ronde van het Groene Hart
3rd GP Briek Schotte
4th Grand Prix d'Isbergues
4th Nokere Koerse
5th Grand Prix of Aargau Canton
6th Overall Tour de Picardie
6th Halle–Ingooigem
8th Vattenfall Cyclassics
9th Overall Tour of Belgium

2008
Vuelta a España
1st Jersey blue Points classification
1st Stage 9
1st Stage 2 Tour de l'Ain
2nd Overall Tour of Belgium
1st Stage 3
2nd Overall Tour de Wallonie
1st Stage 3
3rd Overall Tour of Qatar
3rd E3 Prijs Vlaanderen
4th Road race, National Road Championships
7th Overall Tour de Picardie
7th GP Ouest–France
7th Grote Prijs Stad Zottegem
8th Tour of Flanders

2009
1st Heistse Pijl
4th Road race, National Road Championships
4th Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
4th Halle–Ingooigem
5th Overall Tour of Belgium
5th Grand Prix d'Isbergues
6th Grote Prijs Jef Scherens
9th Grand Prix of Aargau Canton

2010
3rd Halle–Ingooigem
4th Road race, National Road Championships
5th Road race, UCI Road World Championships
7th Grote Prijs Stad Zottegem
8th Brabantse Pijl
9th Overall Tour de l'Ain

2011
1st Jersey yellow Overall Tour de Wallonie
1st Stage 5
Tour of Austria
1st Jersey red Points classification
1st Stage 6
1st Paris–Tours
2nd Overall Tour of Belgium
2nd Gran Piemonte
3rd Clásica de San Sebastián
4th Halle–Ingooigem
7th Liège–Bastogne–Liège
7th Binche–Chimay–Binche
9th Milan–San Remo
9th Strade Bianche

2012
2nd Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec
2nd Grand Prix de Wallonie
4th Tour of Flanders
5th Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
5th Strade Bianche
5th Brabantse Pijl
6th Paris–Tours
8th Gran Piemonte
9th Trofeo Deià

2013
1st Jersey yellow Overall Tour de Wallonie
1st Jersey blue Points classification
1st Stages 3 & 5
1st Stage 1 Tour of Utah
3rd Gent–Wevelgem
3rd Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec
3rd Binche–Chimay–Binche
4th Paris–Roubaix
4th Gullegem Koerse
4th Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal
5th Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
6th Overall Tour of Qatar
1st Stage 2 (TTT)
6th Strade Bianche
6th Brabantse Pijl
6th Grand Prix of Aargau Canton
7th Tour of Flanders

2014
1st Grand Prix de Wallonie
1st GP Impanis-Van Petegem
2nd Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
2nd Tour of Flanders
4th Binche–Chimay–Binche
5th Overall Eneco Tour
1st Stage 5
5th Road race, UCI Road World Championships
5th Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec
7th Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal
8th Clásica de San Sebastián
10th Overall Tour of Belgium
10th E3 Harelbeke

2015
1st Jersey red Overall Tour of Belgium
1st Stage 4
Tour de France
1st Stages 9 (TTT) & 13
1st Stage 3 Tirreno–Adriatico
2nd Overall Eneco Tour
2nd Strade Bianche
3rd Road race, National Road Championships
3rd Tour of Flanders
3rd Paris–Roubaix
3rd Paris–Tours
5th Overall Tour of Qatar
5th Amstel Gold Race
5th Vattenfall Cyclassics
6th Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
7th Overall Tour de Yorkshire
8th UCI World Tour
10th Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec

2016
1st Gold medal olympic Road race, Olympic Games
1st Jersey blue Overall Tirreno–Adriatico
1st Stages 1 (TTT) & 6
1st Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal
1st Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
Tour de France
1st Stage 5
Held Jersey yellow after Stages 5–7
1st Gullegem Koerse
2nd Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec
3rd Overall Tour of Qatar
3rd Road race, National Road Championships
4th Overall Eneco Tour
1st Stage 5 (TTT)
4th Binche–Chimay–Binche
5th Milan–San Remo
5th Clásica de San Sebastián
6th UCI World Tour
6th Strade Bianche
9th Gent–Wevelgem
10th Road race, UCI Road World Championships

2017
1st UCI World Tour
1st Paris–Roubaix
1st Gent–Wevelgem
1st E3 Harelbeke
1st Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
1st Jersey gold.svg Overall Tour de Luxembourg
1st Jersey blue.svg Points classification
1st Stages 2 & 4
1st Stage 1 (TTT) Tirreno–Adriatico
1st Stage 1 (TTT) Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana
2nd Tour of Flanders
2nd Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec
2nd Strade Bianche
4th Overall BinckBank Tour
6th Road race, UCI Road World Championships
7th Kuurne–Brussels–Kuurne
7th Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal
8th Clásica de San Sebastián
10th Bretagne Classic

2018
1st MaillotCyan Overall Tour de Yorkshire
1st Jersey green Points classification
Tour de France
1st Stage 3 (TTT)
Held Jersey yellow after Stages 3–10
Jersey red number Combativity award Stage 10
1st Stage 3 Tour of Oman
1st Stage 1 (TTT) Tirreno–Adriatico
1st Stage 1 (TTT) Tour de Suisse
1st Stage 3 (TTT) Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana
2nd Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec
3rd Bronze medal blank.svg Team time trial, UCI Road World Championships
3rd E3 Harelbeke
3rd Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal
4th Paris–Roubaix
4th Clásica de San Sebastián
5th UCI World Tour
5th Tour of Flanders
6th Overall BinckBank Tour
8th Dwars door Vlaanderen
2019
1st Stage 3 Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana
2nd Omloop Het Nieuwsblad

As you can see above, 2017 was an exceptional year.

Let's look at the monuments/classics:
1 Paris roubaix
2 Omloop(s)
1 E3 Harelbeke
1 Ghent Wevelgem
1 Paris-tours

Gilbert:

Flanders - 1
LBL - 1
Lombardy - 2
Omloop - 2
Strade Bianchi - 1
Brabantse - 2
Amstel gold - 4
Fleche Wallone - 1
San Sebastian - 1
Paris Tours - 2

I wished that Gilbert had tried Roubaix more often. Lesser cyclists have won it.

joey54321

That's true of so many riders though. If you look through Sagan's result he has 95 2nd places and 47 3rd places compared to 110 wins. No one will think of Sagan as a 'nearly man'. Sagan is exceptional, GVA is a good rider but being outside the quickstep in the classics season means it's always going to be hard.

Edit: I didn't add up the numbers myself, they're on wiki

pinno

joey54321 wrote:

Edit: I didn't add up the numbers myself, they're on wiki

Me neither.

My argument is this: GVA was this close ---> <--- to being stratospheric.
If you designated a points system for all his results, he would be up there with the legends but he will be remembered only for the wins in the Monuments and classics.
Take Museeuw; 3 Flanders and 3 Paris Roubaix but not a lot else really yet he is a legend.

phreak

Pinno wrote:

joey54321 wrote:

Edit: I didn't add up the numbers myself, they're on wiki

Me neither.

My argument is this: GVA was this close ---> <--- to being stratospheric.
If you designated a points system for all his results, he would be up there with the legends but he will be remembered only for the wins in the Monuments and classics.
Take Museeuw; 3 Flanders and 3 Paris Roubaix but not a lot else really yet he is a legend.

If you compare their CQ rankings, bar 2011 when Gilbert won everything, GvA has been consistently ahead of Gilbert (indeed he has scored better in 5 of the last 6 years).

bobmcstuff

joey54321 wrote:

That's true of so many riders though. If you look through Sagan's result he has 95 2nd places and 47 3rd places compared to 110 wins. No one will think of Sagan as a 'nearly man'. Sagan is exceptional, GVA is a good rider but being outside the quickstep in the classics season means it's always going to be hard.

Edit: I didn't add up the numbers myself, they're on wiki

There was a time when we made jokes about who would come second in a sprint between Sagan and GVA as they had so many 2nd places between them.

Obviously that was before Sagan got properly going.

RichN95.

Pinno wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

But it's strange, apart from winning Paris-Roubaix, the Olympics, Gent-Wevelgem, E3 Harelbeke, GP de Montréal, Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Paris–Tours, Tirreno-Adriatico, the Tour of Belgium, the Tour of Yorkshire, two Tour de France stages, the Vuelta points jersey and five Flandrien awards, he has very little to show for his abilities.

I get your point and at no point did I say that he is a bad rider but he has missed countless opportunities to be on the top step of the podium.

Basically, he doesn't have a special move like the really prolific winners (of which there have only really been three in the 21st century). He can't sprint like Sagan and Boonen and he can't time time trial like Cancellara

ContrelaMontre

He finished second at OHN so is going to win RVV this year

pinno

ContrelaMontre wrote:

He finished second at OHN so is going to win RVV this year

Non, ces't pas vrais. Il viendra 2ème ou 3ème ou 4ème ou 5ème ...

rick_chasey

Verkeerde taal.

Hij is vlaams, niet waloon.

DeVlaeminck

Was he a bit of a late developer ? I think he's probably been short of absolute top class - your Boonens, Sagans, Cancellaras etc - for most of his career and then he has been up against a dominant Quickstep in more recent years. I wouldn't say he's necessarily underachieved - maybe could have had one or two more big wins but he may still get them.

pinno

33 - 34 in May. Many tail off at this point.
But i'm sure there will be more victories for him.

shirley_basso

An Andy Murray in the djok, fed, Nadal generation.

andyp

Pinno wrote:

Take Museeuw; 3 Flanders and 3 Paris Roubaix but not a lot else really yet he is a legend.

Really? He won the Worlds, Tour stages, countless stages in what are now WT races, plus lots of one day races and he came back from two injuries that could've ended his career.

pinno

andyp wrote:

Pinno wrote:

Take Museeuw; 3 Flanders and 3 Paris Roubaix but not a lot else really yet he is a legend.

Really? He won the Worlds, Tour stages, countless stages in what are now WT races, plus lots of one day races and he came back from two injuries that could've ended his career.

I don't know what happened there.
Just been over his stats and yes, he was prolific, My excuse is that he was in the era where I had to go to friends' houses to watch Eurosport
Although in hindsight, slightly controversial in terms of doping.

andyp

I think you're being very kind to say he was slightly controversial - I don't think there is any doubt that he was doping throughout much of his career.

pinno

andyp wrote:

I think you're being very kind to say he was slightly controversial - I don't think there is any doubt that he was doping throughout much of his career.

Lemond commented about the change that came in '92/'93, He talked with Andy Hampsten because they couldn't beleive how much faster everyone was going. The dawn of the EPO era.
I guess it's down to us (in hindsight), to see the Museeuw's, the Jalabert's, the Zabel's etc as people who were the better cyclists in this level playing field where everyone was 'at it'.
Or you take the view that some people would have responded better to drugs than others or, had better management of doses/types of enhancement.
Or we delete all records between 1940(?) and 2007*.

*Taking performance enhancing substances was seen as innovative in the 30's.

menchovʹsstabilisers

RichN95 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

But it's strange, apart from winning Paris-Roubaix, the Olympics, Gent-Wevelgem, E3 Harelbeke, GP de Montréal, Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Paris–Tours, Tirreno-Adriatico, the Tour of Belgium, the Tour of Yorkshire, two Tour de France stages, the Vuelta points jersey and five Flandrien awards, he has very little to show for his abilities.

I get your point and at no point did I say that he is a bad rider but he has missed countless opportunities to be on the top step of the podium.

Basically, he doesn't have a special move like the really prolific winners (of which there have only really been three in the 21st century). He can't sprint like Sagan and Boonen and he can't time time trial like Cancellara

You make it sound like streetfighter. Finish him

Wheelspinner

RichN95 wrote:

Pinno wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

But it's strange, apart from winning Paris-Roubaix, the Olympics, Gent-Wevelgem, E3 Harelbeke, GP de Montréal, Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, Paris–Tours, Tirreno-Adriatico, the Tour of Belgium, the Tour of Yorkshire, two Tour de France stages, the Vuelta points jersey and five Flandrien awards, he has very little to show for his abilities.

I get your point and at no point did I say that he is a bad rider but he has missed countless opportunities to be on the top step of the podium.

Basically, he doesn't have a special move like the really prolific winners (of which there have only really been three in the 21st century). He can't sprint like Sagan and Boonen and he can't time time trial like Cancellara

Mark Cavendish called. He'd like a word, round the back of the shed please.

shirley_basso

Cigarette or blowjob?

RichN95.

Shirley Basso wrote:

Cigarette or blowjob?

Porn mags. In April you won't be able to get it on the internet. Jazz Mags are back.

pinno

RichN95 wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Cigarette or blowjob?

Porn mags. In April you won't be able to get it on the internet. Jazz Mags are back.

And how do you know this?!

RichN95.

Wheelspinner wrote:

Mark Cavendish called. He'd like a word, round the back of the shed please.

Prolific winners of classics/monuments I meant. While Cavendish has KBK, Scheldijprijs and MSR, he's not troubled the scorers on the big cobbled races.

RichN95.

Pinno wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Cigarette or blowjob?

Porn mags. In April you won't be able to get it on the internet. Jazz Mags are back.

And how do you know this?!

Twitter. Apparently UK citizens need to get a porn pass (blue naturally) to access porn online.

gethinceri

I'd better buy some replacement attic insulation then.