Why am I more tired after a rest day?

tonysj

Hi All,
I'm just about to finish the first half of a 12 week training plan which is all done on the Turbo trainer and my fitness is coming along nicely.
The training plan is a 5 session a week one and I've noticed during the past couple of weeks that after a Rest Day I feel absolutely Knackered and struggle to keep the power level up especially during the first 5 minutes of the work session. I don't give up but some of the blocks are really painful to my legs and I have to just grin and bear the pain and ride through it.
I've done 5 sessions in a row and I don't seem to experience this painful part of the sessions when I would have thought I should be "Fresher" after a rest day.

I did a 75% of FTP for 45 minutes Sunday and today with a 30 minute session on the Monday. Sunday my HR was higher ( I split the session into 15 minutes blocks on my Garmin just so its easier to see the CD) and the session blocks were higher on the Sunday being 129-135, 132-134 & 133-135 BPM. Todays same session was 123-128, 124-127 & 128-130 BPM. Now I appreciate they are not worlds part but I would have expected it to be the other way around after 3 days in a row.

I don't think there are any obvious issues causing this, lack of sleep, food intake etc as I generally do the sessions at the same time each day, mid afternoon.

Can anyone explain why this is happening please.

Also I'm reading Training and Racing with a Power Meter, Allen/Coggan, and intend to do the Power Profile test covered in the book next week, a few days after my planned FTP test, but can this be done on a T Trainer or is it strictly an out door road test.

Thanks in advance.

Tony.

imposter2.0

If you haven't recovered enough, then either you need more recovery before resuming training, or your sessions are too physically taxing in comparison to your level of fitness. Without knowing more about you or your session plans, it's probably going to be difficult for to anyone to offer much more in the way of meaningful comment..

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness?

thistle_

What do you do on your rest day? Nothing? Gentle potter around outside on the bike? Different sport?

NitrousOxide wrote:

Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness?

When I get that it tends to be 4-8 hours later, but don't know if that's normal.

tonysj

Imposter wrote:

If you haven't recovered enough, then either you need more recovery before resuming training, or your sessions are too physically taxing in comparison to your level of fitness. Without knowing more about you or your session plans, it's probably going to be difficult for to anyone to offer much more in the way of meaningful comment..

These are last week sessions
Sat - 2 x ( 20mins x ( 40/20 secs )) @ 105% FTP,
Sun - 1 x 45mins @ 75% FTP
Mon - Rest day
Tues - 5 x 10mins @ 91% FTP
Wed - Rest day
Thurs - 5 x ( 10mins x ( 40/20secs )) @ 105% FTP.
Fri - 3 x 20mins @ 91% FTP.

This week
Sat - Rest day
Sun - 1 x 45mins @ 75%
Mon - 1 x 30mins @ 75%
Tues - 1 x 45mins @ 75% today.
They are not the Build phase more like the Base phase but the above is very similar to the previous weeks other than this weeks 5 sessions are all at 75% of my FTP as after the 5th Im due to complete the FTP Test with it being 6 weeks/Halfway through the plan.
T.

tonysj

thistle (MBNW) wrote:

What do you do on your rest day? Nothing? Gentle potter around outside on the bike? Different sport?

NitrousOxide wrote:

Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness?

When I get that it tends to be 4-8 hours later, but don't know if that's normal.

Rest Days are generally do nothing other than Family stuff, no sports.
T

Midlands Grimpeur

If I remember correctly from other threads, you are still relatively new to cycling? You are undertaking quite a lot of intensive turbo sessions in a one week period IMO. Others may disagree but I think it takes 2-3 solid years of riding just to build up a base level of fitness before starting to think about slowly introducing structured training. It is purely speculation on my part, but similar as to Imposter's suggestion, you could just be taking on a greater level on intensive training than your fitness allows for. When your body isn't used to so much work, once you have a rest day, it kind of decides it needs more recovery which could explain why you are finding it tough post recovery days.

To give you some context, I have been riding nearly 20 years and do a lot of volume and structured training each year and I wouldn't attempt 5 turbo sessions in the space of 7 days, probably 3 maximum.

tonysj

Midlands Grimpeur wrote:

If I remember correctly from other threads, you are still relatively new to cycling? You are undertaking quite a lot of intensive turbo sessions in a one week period IMO. Others may disagree but I think it takes 2-3 solid years of riding just to build up a base level of fitness before starting to think about slowly introducing structured training. It is purely speculation on my part, but similar as to Imposter's suggestion, you could just be taking on a greater level on intensive training than your fitness allows for. When your body isn't used to so much work, once you have a rest day, it kind of decides it needs more recovery which could explain why you are finding it tough post recovery days.

To give you some context, I have been riding nearly 20 years and do a lot of volume and structured training each year and I wouldn't attempt 5 turbo sessions in the space of 7 days, probably 3 maximum.

MG Thanks for your advice. I feel ok with the 5 sessions a week as since about November last year I've been mainly doing turbo sessions of up to 60 minutes duration. On comparing data, HR etc I seem to coping well enough it's just this day after rest day issue but it's only a minor blip in what otherwise seems like a good training plan for me.
I may be older at 56yrs but my overall fitness is very good.
The moment of truth may be my FTP test this weekend. If that's a flop or I can't better , by a small amount, my current 274 Watts then I may be doing too much too soon.
Regards.
T.

imposter2.0

TonySJ wrote:

I feel ok with the 5 sessions a week

The fact that you are struggling to complete these sessions suggests that is not the case though...

joe2008

Imposter wrote:

TonySJ wrote:

I feel ok with the 5 sessions a week

The fact that you are struggling to complete these sessions suggests that is not the case though...

Definitely this. ^

The title of your thread suggests that you are not recovering in time for your next session.

I would say that there is probably too much work at or around threshold for your current level of fitness, and not enough endurance work.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

thistle (MBNW) wrote:

What do you do on your rest day? Nothing? Gentle potter around outside on the bike? Different sport?

NitrousOxide wrote:

Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness?

When I get that it tends to be 4-8 hours later, but don't know if that's normal.

With me, if I get it, it tends to be two days after a relatively tough ride or if I do a couple of moderately tough rides on back to back days.

Typical Analytical

Indoors, you can use cardiac drift to auto-regulate stimulus, progression and recovery. Above 10% and you need to decrease duration or power unless HR is abnormally low in which case you need to decrease workout frequency.

zefs

Might be stating the obvious but, are your zones set correctly?
Also, are you tracking form/fatigue (stress score)?

Seems like you might be doing too many sessions or not recovering enough.

ric/rstsport

Feeling meh, and being unable to complete a session the day after a rest day, is, indeed extremely normal. in fact it's so common, i'd suggest that more than 70 % of cyclists experience this.

Because this is such a common occurrence, many people have a recovery spin on their off day. Anecdotally, i used to find this would help me.

There doesn't appear to be a specific reason for it. It is unlikely to be DOMS, and doesn't mean you're not recovered (although you might not be, there's insufficient data to say).

for the OP, even though you mention that your HR is lower doing a similar session (?) this doesn't actually mean anything. i don't know if you're doing these sessions at the same power output (do you have a power meter?) but your HR at a fixed absolute power output can vary up and down.

i would suggest that your training looks a little 'odd'. in the first week it looks like you've done a reasonable amount and the second week seems somewhat short in comparison.

cheers
ric

daxplusplus

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

Feeling meh, and being unable to complete a session the day after a rest day, is, indeed extremely normal. in fact it's so common, i'd suggest that more than 70 % of cyclists experience this.

Because this is such a common occurrence, many people have a recovery spin on their off day. Anecdotally, i used to find this would help me.

There doesn't appear to be a specific reason for it. It is unlikely to be DOMS, and doesn't mean you're not recovered (although you might not be, there's insufficient data to say).

cheers
ric

This. I get the same - in fact the last couple of weeks it's happened 3 times and I was wondering what the physiological reason might be. It's like your body has flicked a switch due to the day off. I would feel it on my morning ride. By the evening - back firing on all cylinders and getting PRs. Stange.