Farsports Wheel Configuration

Candyon

Hi, I'm looking to purchase some 50 mm tubeless compatible wheels from Farsports. The DT Swiss Hubs are a bit out of my price range and am mainly considering the three listed below.

If anyone can give me a bit more info on which would be the best hubs to go for. I've heard of Novatec and heard Bitex being mentioned in places but I can't really find much info on the EDhub. Are any of these used on the likes of CRC Prime wheels?

I know aero trumps weight but it would be nice to have a lighter set. But not if they're going to fall apart after one ride or are not servicable. Essentially I'm looking for best value.

Novatec Hubs
Hub: Novatec 291 482 hub
Weight: 1565g
Cost: $513.36
https://www.wheelsfar.com/50mm-x-25mm-tubeless-with-novatec-291-482-model-fsc50cm-25t.html


Bitex Hubs
Hub: Bitex A713SB RAR12 hub
Weight: 1555g
Cost: $521.64
https://www.wheelsfar.com/50mm-x-25mm-carbon-tubeless-wheels-bitex-hub-sapim-cx-ray-spoke.html

EDhub
Hub: Edhub
Weight: 1520g
Cost: $541.88
https://www.wheelsfar.com/50mm-x-25mm-tubeless-with-ed-model-fsc50-cm-25t-2.html

Powerway R36 & R51
I might be able to stretch to these if they are worth it, just no idea of the difference in the two hubs, both weigh same and cost the same

Hub: Powerway R36 hub & Powerway R51 hub
Weight: 1545g
Cost: $565.80
https://www.wheelsfar.com/50mm-x-25mm-carbon-tubeless-wheels-powerway-r36-hub-sapim-cx-ray-spoke.html
https://www.wheelsfar.com/50mm-x-25mm-carbon-tubeless-wheels-powerway-r51-hub-sapim-cx-ray-spoke.html

Finally it gives me the option to select the rim to be supplied with or without spoke holes in the rim bed. If I select without holes would this make it more difficult to change the spokes or change the hub?

Sorry for the long post and thanks.

ugo.santalucia

A few years ago, I was skeptical of anything that wasn't Novatec, because there was no UK distribution for Bitex and the likes... so spares were impossible to find.

Now it would appear things are a lot better, so based on the quality of the current product, I would go for Bitex... apparently you can even upgrade the freehub to stainless steel and avoid all the typical spline chewing problems of far eastern hubs

https://bitexhubs.co.uk/product/freehub-bodies/

I have no experience of ED or Powerway... just seen them on fora, never for real

whyamihere

25mm is quite narrow for the outside width of the rims. Following the idea that to get the most aero benefit (which is surely the reason you're going for 50mm rims) the tyre needs to be narrower than the rim, you'd be restricted to 23mm or smaller tyres. Light-Bicycle do some wider rims on similar Bitex/Novatec hub options and have a great reputation, though they might be a bit more expensive.

Candyon

whyamihere wrote:

25mm is quite narrow for the outside width of the rims. Following the idea that to get the most aero benefit (which is surely the reason you're going for 50mm rims) the tyre needs to be narrower than the rim, you'd be restricted to 23mm or smaller tyres. Light-Bicycle do some wider rims on similar Bitex/Novatec hub options and have a great reputation, though they might be a bit more expensive.

Thanks for the response, just realised I should have mentioned I have a Canyon Ultimate CF SL 2017 with Ultegra 6800. I've asked Canyon what is the widest wheel rim I can fit on it and their reply was 25 mm. Currently have Mavic Ksyrium Elites on it with 25C Conti GP4000 II.

I had originally been interested in the Prime Black Edition but they're 27.5mm wide externally so going off what Canyon said have started looking at other options. Cero RC50's were another option.

Candyon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

A few years ago, I was skeptical of anything that wasn't Novatec, because there was no UK distribution for Bitex and the likes... so spares were impossible to find.

Now it would appear things are a lot better, so based on the quality of the current product, I would go for Bitex... apparently you can even upgrade the freehub to stainless steel and avoid all the typical spline chewing problems of far eastern hubs

https://bitexhubs.co.uk/product/freehub-bodies/

I have no experience of ED or Powerway... just seen them on fora, never for real

Thanks, that seems to be the general consensus when I've searched for EDhub or Powerway. Read somewhere that EDhub were rebranded and higher spec model from Bitex, but I don't really get why they wouldn't just say that.

Would I be better going with spoke holes in the rim bed? As potentially after running them a while I might invest in some better hubs.

ugo.santalucia

No spoke holes means they must have a screw on system like Mavic or Campagnolo/Fulcrum... quite unusual in carbon rims. It's handy for tubeless as you bypass the need for tape, but otherwise just a hassle

moonshine

I just got my set of 45mm deep 28mm wide disk specific carbon tubeless FarSports wheels built on straight pull DT Swiss 350 centre lock thru axle wheels last night - 730g for the front 871g for the rear. non drilled rim.
these were £520 plus £40 customs charge

I need longer valves before I can mount the tyres but they look very good.

Candyon

Ahh nice!
There's the option on checkout to pay $50 for EU shipping and that prepays the duty.
Think it would be worth it?

moonshine

Candyon wrote:

Ahh nice!
There's the option on checkout to pay $50 for EU shipping and that prepays the duty.
Think it would be worth it?

I don't know - A friend coordinated a bulk buy and paid the import duty on collection - it was £40 per wheel set ... you would need to decide.

carl_p

Might be worth getting a spare freehub if you are going for a cheaper hub. Might prolong the life of your wheels in case spares become obsolete in the future.

philbar72

Candyon wrote:

whyamihere wrote:

25mm is quite narrow for the outside width of the rims. Following the idea that to get the most aero benefit (which is surely the reason you're going for 50mm rims) the tyre needs to be narrower than the rim, you'd be restricted to 23mm or smaller tyres. Light-Bicycle do some wider rims on similar Bitex/Novatec hub options and have a great reputation, though they might be a bit more expensive.

Thanks for the response, just realised I should have mentioned I have a Canyon Ultimate CF SL 2017 with Ultegra 6800. I've asked Canyon what is the widest wheel rim I can fit on it and their reply was 25 mm. Currently have Mavic Ksyrium Elites on it with 25C Conti GP4000 II.

I had originally been interested in the Prime Black Edition but they're 27.5mm wide externally so going off what Canyon said have started looking at other options. Cero RC50's were another option.

this is true for a lot of us that have circa 2013-16 bikes that have narrow gaps around their chainstays. with 303's for example you just get away with 25mm contis on them in a pair of dura ace brakes and they only just work so a 25mm farsports rim is definitely the widest I'd put into that bike.

As for the hubs, I'd go power way or bitex. the novatec hubs are a bit on the average side. but that's just me.

Candyon

philbar72 wrote:

Candyon wrote:

whyamihere wrote:

25mm is quite narrow for the outside width of the rims. Following the idea that to get the most aero benefit (which is surely the reason you're going for 50mm rims) the tyre needs to be narrower than the rim, you'd be restricted to 23mm or smaller tyres. Light-Bicycle do some wider rims on similar Bitex/Novatec hub options and have a great reputation, though they might be a bit more expensive.

Thanks for the response, just realised I should have mentioned I have a Canyon Ultimate CF SL 2017 with Ultegra 6800. I've asked Canyon what is the widest wheel rim I can fit on it and their reply was 25 mm. Currently have Mavic Ksyrium Elites on it with 25C Conti GP4000 II.

I had originally been interested in the Prime Black Edition but they're 27.5mm wide externally so going off what Canyon said have started looking at other options. Cero RC50's were another option.

this is true for a lot of us that have circa 2013-16 bikes that have narrow gaps around their chainstays. with 303's for example you just get away with 25mm contis on them in a pair of dura ace brakes and they only just work so a 25mm farsports rim is definitely the widest I'd put into that bike.

As for the hubs, I'd go power way or bitex. the novatec hubs are a bit on the average side. but that's just me.

Thanks, I've gone for the 25mm with the Bitex hubs, h later this year I should be in an improved position at work so with that might be able to get some improved hubs.

The thread linked below had helped me with respect to the rim width, just not too knowledgeable about hubs. So could be back asking about hub upgrades
https://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=13092540&start=40

joe2008

The DT Swiss 240/350 upgrade is worth every penny in terms of longevity, ease of use, and, of course, the fail proof ratchet system.

moonshine

My new FarSports wheelset with tubeless tyres have delivered a 800g weight saving over the standard tubed mavic askium all road wheels that came as standard with my Cervelo c3

cycleclinic

Duty should be 4.7% of the total cost including shipping and then vat should be applied to that. If not then the wheels have had a low declared value. A common trick and somewhat unfair as vat should be be paid. People complain about tax Dodgers unless they are up to it themselves.

Of all the far Eastern hub manufacturers bitex do have the best offering but remember they are light because the bearings are small. In other words the hubs may not last as long as the rims. If they do you won't be rebuilding them onto new rims in time . pay your money make your choice. Carbon rims can do 20000km plus easily. So it really comes down to how much your going to use them.

Candyon

Thanks for the help.
I opted to pay $50 for the prepaid duty covered by courier shipping. So probably paid a bit more than if I'd done it standard shipping.
All in it was still a good price inc. shipping.

Obviously I want them to last as long as possible but hopefully within a few months I'll be in a stronger financial position that if needs be I could remove the Bitex hubs if they become worn out or too unreliable etc. Just at this moment in time my best set of wheels are fairly worn, if it wasn't the case I'd have waited a bit longer for some better hubs.

moonshine

My Cervelo c3 with the FarSports wheels fitted. Out today for a ride and very impressed with the wheels

cycleclinic

that $50 will cover duties only. In fact as I pointed out duty is 4.7%
https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk ... dings/8714

Now HMRC apply a 1.3062 exchange rate to the US dollar in feb
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... sv/preview

So you can work out the total cost with shipping apply the exchange rate and then Add 4.7% and that ~£20 not 50 USD

Now VAT should be applied to the total cost + shipping + duties @20% but I suspect low value will be declared say 100 USD so you wont be clobbered. If Farsports decalre full value then good on them that means they are being a good egg but then the full VAT will be applied + parcel forces handling fee of £13.50

moonshine

RM / the import agent add an administration handling charge somewhere around £12-£20 per order on top of VAT if duty has not been paid, so the $50 usd isn't bad value. Important duty, VAT and RM handling charges added £44 to my order cost, and my friend had to pay this, and collect from RM Hub to get the wheels released (we knew this would be the case)

moonshine

thecycleclinic wrote:

Now HMRC apply a 1.3062 exchange rate to the US dollar in feb
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... sv/preview

Are you sure that is correct? £1=$1.3062, therefore $1 =£0.7656....,
So,for example, a $600 USD order with say $50 USD shipping equates to $650 USD, or £497.62.
Add 4.7% import duty (£23.39) gives a total of £521.06.
Plus 20% VAT (£104.21) £625.27

$50 USD seems like a bargain if they come in at that price

cycleclinic

50 USD is the prepaid duty which you correctly calculated at £23.39 now explain to me how paying 50 USD for the £23.39 duties is a bargin.

HMRC publish exhange rates they use for duty and VAT calculation on a monthly basis for feb 2019 it £1 to 1.3062 USD.

For wheels cost 521 USD acxtually there 567 USD now the shipping is free. EMS partner with parcel force for delivery normally.

So it should cost 567/1.3062 = £434.08 duties add £20.48 and VAT £90.90 so the total should be £545.46 +£13.50 handling fee.

With prepaid duties which should just be the duties not the VAT you should end up with a bill of
567 +50 USD =617 USD 617/1.3062 =£472.36 +20% VAT £94.47 = £566.83 If Parcel force still apply there handling fee I dont see how the pre paid duties is a deal.

If the VAT is not what I have shown HMRC have been diddled. It is simply not legitimate to pre pay the VAT specially at 50 USD as a fixed fee for products of variable cost and when 50 USD does not begin to cover the VAT.
That prepaid duty by the way is 50 USD for a 1000USD wheelset. Something is not right here.

What people get charged and what they should be charged are two very different things. I expect this to get worse on the 30th March when every EU retailer will go oh we can pull the rug from under the entire UK retail sector. I talked about this with my MP today and he said non one's thought of that. I know I said.

Candyon

So the wheels arrived yesterday while I was at work. As I selected the EU duty paid for $50 they were sent via DPD.
They were left with my neighbour and had no extra fees to pay, unless my neighbour who I barely know decided to pay a fee and not tell me when they brought them round after I got home from work.

trek_dan

I'd steer clear of Bitex, I have a set and they haven't been very reliable as the freehub has failed twice now. Its actually cheaper to buy a whole new hub direct from China than it is to get just a replacement freehub from a UK stockist! I've always found Novatec bombproof in comparison.

Alejandrosdog

moonshine wrote:

My Cervelo c3 with the FarSports wheels fitted. Out today for a ride and very impressed with the wheels

Decoration clean and tidy no dust or tatt visible, well done.

Wheel valves almost lined up evenly not bad. Crank arm positioning abysmal.

consistent red color in the rims, powermeter and stem. Chapeux

cycleclinic

lucky you but you have not paid the VAT then. That's not your fault but its is still a dodge neverless.

Look at the declared value. I bet it's low and that the dodge.

Candyon

Unless a label with a declared value was removed when it arrived in the Netherlands and had a DPD sticker put on it there is no sticker with a declared value whatsoever.

timothyw

Can someone explain how those rims work without any nipple holes? What sort of nipples are being used? How do the nipples get in?

Does this impact repair-ability if a spoke/nipple fails?

ugo.santalucia

TimothyW wrote:

Can someone explain how those rims work without any nipple holes? What sort of nipples are being used? How do the nipples get in?

Does this impact repair-ability if a spoke/nipple fails?

A screw on system is the only one I can think of... like Mavic.

timothyw

ugo.santalucia wrote:

TimothyW wrote:

Can someone explain how those rims work without any nipple holes? What sort of nipples are being used? How do the nipples get in?

Does this impact repair-ability if a spoke/nipple fails?

A screw on system is the only one I can think of... like Mavic.

That doesn't help me hugely as I'm not familiar with the Mavic system. Do the nipples screw onto the rim and then separately screw onto the spokes?

sloppyschleckonds

trek_dan wrote:

I'd steer clear of Bitex, I have a set and they haven't been very reliable as the freehub has failed twice now. Its actually cheaper to buy a whole new hub direct from China than it is to get just a replacement freehub from a UK stockist! I've always found Novatec bombproof in comparison.

Ditto

sloppyschleckonds

Alejandrosdog wrote:

moonshine wrote:

My Cervelo c3 with the FarSports wheels fitted. Out today for a ride and very impressed with the wheels

Decoration clean and tidy no dust or tatt visible, well done.

Wheel valves almost lined up evenly not bad. Crank arm positioning abysmal.

consistent red color in the rims, powermeter and stem. Chapeux

Could probably do with an in-line seatpost