I hate hills but think I'm doing them wrong?
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I didn’t see many pros spinning at 95-100 on the last climb of last years world championship.Stueys wrote:Stueys wrote:I'd check a couple of things out -
1) take a look at your gearing, whilst you're building cycling fitness you want some nice, low gearing that you can spin out. Pushing a big gear for a long period of time tires the muscles a lot faster than spinning a lower gear (85+ cadence). You'll see the pro's spinning up climbs at 95-100 and that's partly why
(2) if you're new to road biking then check your saddle height, lots of new roadies tend to have the saddle lower than is ideal and that can cause your quads to burn earlier. Google setting saddle height, there are 2 or 3 methods that will get you in roughly the right spot
And I've just realised I've repeated what everyone has already said :oops:
Sorry, should have read the thread first...0 -
MTB climbing is just a different mentality - a difficult hill is something you need to clean and you'll go very deep to do so (prob have a bit of a rest at the top as well). There are next to no road climbs that need 'cleaning' - Hardknott after 90 miles in the Fred maybe but it's very rare, so throwing these sort of MTB digs in every time you see a big road hill will have you on your hands and knees.
As others have said you need to wind it right back such that you're comfortable spinning over a few big hills on a road ride, get the rhythm of the thing, and then build from there. You can then get to a point where you can attack the climbs but it's a different sort of process to off-road riding IME.0 -
If I find a climb particularly hard, I try it again in the other direction. Normally much easier.0
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First Aspect wrote:If I find a climb particularly hard, I try it again in the other direction. Normally much easier.
Backwards?? You on a fixie?0 -
In my experience, fitness is very specific. I've been jogging recently, only about 4 miles in 40 minutes, but have been doing it for a few months. A younger guy came with me last time, he's a serious amateur footballer, skinny as a rake and 30 years younger than me, but he said he found it hard to keep up. He does a lot of running, but football type running, so lots of short sprints with changes of direction, and hasn't done a long steady run for a while. I wouldn't dream of trying to play football with him, not least because my skill level is non existent, but I know I would be dying on my arse after 10 minutes, and probably have pulled every leg muscle into the bargain.
I'm not sure mountain bike hill climbing is much different to road bike hill climbing. I live in the South Downs, and whilst there are more extreme off road hills, generally all the tough ones take about 6-10 minutes to get up, whether they are on or off road. MTBs have more spinny gears, so I find it is easier to stay seated off road (which helps keep the rear wheel gripping) whereas on road there are times when you just have to get out of the seat to keep going up. I would have thought if you can climb off road, climbing on road shouldn't be a problem? You do have to keep something back for the top of the hill though, if you go sprinting into the bottom, you will run out of breath earlier and the top part will be proportionally harder and take longer.
Spinning vs grinding - you need to try both approaches to see what is best for you. I used to think spinning was better, and have gradually changed my gearing to make this more possible. I read recently that the efficiency benefits of spinning are as much to do with recovery, particularly if you doing a multi day event, like a tdf or even an alpine tour as an amateur.0 -
Is he talking about long hills and short hills, but using some form of code?Arturo Belano wrote:MTB climbing is just a different mentality - a difficult hill is something you need to clean and you'll go very deep to do so (prob have a bit of a rest at the top as well). There are next to no road climbs that need 'cleaning' - Hardknott after 90 miles in the Fred maybe but it's very rare, so throwing these sort of MTB digs in every time you see a big road hill will have you on your hands and knees.
As others have said you need to wind it right back such that you're comfortable spinning over a few big hills on a road ride, get the rhythm of the thing, and then build from there. You can then get to a point where you can attack the climbs but it's a different sort of process to off-road riding IME.0 -
First Aspect wrote:If I find a climb particularly hard, I try it again in the other direction. Normally much easier.
I agree. The negative gradient is much easier on my my aerobic system and prevents me from going into the red zone.0 -
To get a reaction.keef66 wrote:Why trot out such nonsense to somebody who admits they are new to road cycling?
Why has no-one mentioned leg strength?
Seriously, the stuff about pacing yourself is spot on, for whatever level of fitness you have. I always like to start a climb at what feels like 'too slowly', and increase the effort level all the way to the top, be it a 5-minute climb, or a 2-hour climb. Do it lots, and not only will you learn what those effort levels feel like, but you'll ride yourself fitter & faster too.0 -
1. See hills as a challenge. Accept that it's not easy but it's you versus the mountain and you're going to f' ing do this no matter what.
2. Compact chainring and 28 or 32t cassette (check if you'll need a longer rear derailleur and chain).
3. Daydream that you're the King of the Mountains on a Tour de France climb. (Loads of crazy Dutch standing on a corner is optional)"The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby0 -
ben@31 wrote:(Loads of crazy Dutch standing on a corner is optional)
Especially if they're throwing cups full of their own urine at you...0 -
keef66 wrote:Tyresome wrote:Remember that your body will tend to fuel differently depending on which method you choose as well. High power spinning (relatively low torque, high cadence biased power which up hill will be ) will see the body mostly fat fuelling, where as high power grinding ( relatively low cadence, high torque biased power ) will see the body fuelling more on stored Glycogen. So if your route is a decent length, with hills at various intervals, it should feel easier / more comfortable to grind more early on, whilst you still have decent Glycogen levels, and spin later on when the glycogen has depleted.
Why trot out such nonsense to somebody who admits they are new to road cycling?
It’s not “ nonsense” it’s scientifically determined fact. Whether you like it or not matters little. These facts have been determined by experts so why would you not want someone to know?0 -
Tyresome wrote:keef66 wrote:Tyresome wrote:Remember that your body will tend to fuel differently depending on which method you choose as well. High power spinning (relatively low torque, high cadence biased power which up hill will be ) will see the body mostly fat fuelling, where as high power grinding ( relatively low cadence, high torque biased power ) will see the body fuelling more on stored Glycogen. So if your route is a decent length, with hills at various intervals, it should feel easier / more comfortable to grind more early on, whilst you still have decent Glycogen levels, and spin later on when the glycogen has depleted.
Why trot out such nonsense to somebody who admits they are new to road cycling?
It’s not “ nonsense” it’s scientifically determined fact. Whether you like it or not matters little. These facts have been determined by experts so why would you not want someone to know?
Link to the study then - you massive liar. All you've done so far is plagiarise from some third-rate website.0 -
Everyone hates hills when they start out. you've got your nice shiny new bike and it flies along the road until it turns upwards, then everything goes pants. its miserable and you know you can't get to the top.
just put the hours in, nothing more than that. titanium pedals won't make you fly up that hill. you have to earn it and that's when you'll start to enjoy feeling miserable and gasping for breath instead of dreading every second of it. its always going to be hard but once the legs have some conditioning and you get your head tuned to 'not be afraid' of the hills then it's a buzz.
at that point you will always make sure there are some hefty climbs on your rides ( if there are any around you ), and you will, in a masochistic way, look forward to them. i hated climbing when i started out, but i love it now0 -
Get titanium pedals. Best upgrade ever. They'll make you fly uphill, just to get away from the annoying creaking noise they make.
I am a massive liar.0 -
you might be a massive liar, but you aren't tiresome0
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Few people like hills. Even climbers. Forget about the weight of your bike unless you're racing. Your weight and your bike shows that not counting the weight of a saddle pack and water bottles that your bike weighs 11% of the combined weights. If you had an older steel Pinarello or some such it might be 13%. Only 2% different and less counting the 2 lbs per larger size water bottles of the 1-2 lbs saddle pack.Bongofish wrote:Hey all!
I'm fairly new to road biking but been MTB riding a few years. I would say I'm in reasonable fitness. 6 foot 2 and 75kg. I got into road biking while realising full sus mountain biking means I have to drive 40 mins to actual use it properly. And road biking is straight on door step.
So I've got myself a carbon framed road bike. Nothing expensive but seems to work.
My issue is I would like to class myself as fairly fit. Not super fit but not unfit but eveeytime I hate any hill I'm pushing and start to Bob up and down or do the chicken move with my head. I'm always waiting for the top to come and all the way up thinking....why am I doing this to myself haha. And then I get to the top and the flats and i love it again. My bike weighs 9.5kg which I know isn't super light but for £600 it seems good for a carbon frame. I think my issue is that I'm attacking hills with the want to not drop any speed so keep pushing as hard as I can and dropping gears and trying to get to the top as quick as I can. From watching some videos I think I should just be dropping it in a low gear and pacing myself and just deal with the fact I feel like a snail? It's like eveeytime I hit a hill I also hit the wall.
Any recommendations as I'm literally planning rides to try and miss as many hills as I can and just not doing them if it means lots of climbing hills.
Thanks guys
So get used to climbing and if you want to go faster work on it. At 74 years of age and using a gear of 39-23 I'm climbing 1,000 feet over 3 miles with max grades of about 12%. I simply ride slower between the steep parts where you have to really push hard. At the beginning of the season I'm dragging up this hill but mid-season I hardly notice the climbing. There are a lot of hills around here that you can climb and the climbs aren't the problems after awhile but descending and not getting carried away and getting in over your head. After the weather warms up I can generally pull out the "light" bike and climb in a 34-23 with a higher cadence and higher speeds.
But I will still be passed by the 20 somethings and I just don't worry about it. Riding is for fun and not trying to compete against the world - only compete against people in your category. Mine is 44.0 -
Mr.Mouse wrote:Everyone hates hills when they start out. you've got your nice shiny new bike and it flies along the road until it turns upwards, then everything goes pants. its miserable and you know you can't get to the top.
just put the hours in, nothing more than that. titanium pedals won't make you fly up that hill. you have to earn it and that's when you'll start to enjoy feeling miserable and gasping for breath instead of dreading every second of it. its always going to be hard but once the legs have some conditioning and you get your head tuned to 'not be afraid' of the hills then it's a buzz.
at that point you will always make sure there are some hefty climbs on your rides ( if there are any around you ), and you will, in a masochistic way, look forward to them. i hated climbing when i started out, but i love it now
Sums it up perfectly0 -
RiceAway wrote:
Few people like hills. Even climbers. Forget about the weight of your bike unless you're racing. Your weight and your bike shows that not counting the weight of a saddle pack and water bottles that your bike weighs 11% of the combined weights. If you had an older steel Pinarello or some such it might be 13%. Only 2% different and less counting the 2 lbs per larger size water bottles of the 1-2 lbs saddle pack.Bongofish wrote:Hey all!
I'm fairly new to road biking but been MTB riding a few years. I would say I'm in reasonable fitness. 6 foot 2 and 75kg. I got into road biking while realising full sus mountain biking means I have to drive 40 mins to actual use it properly. And road biking is straight on door step.
So I've got myself a carbon framed road bike. Nothing expensive but seems to work.
My issue is I would like to class myself as fairly fit. Not super fit but not unfit but eveeytime I hate any hill I'm pushing and start to Bob up and down or do the chicken move with my head. I'm always waiting for the top to come and all the way up thinking....why am I doing this to myself haha. And then I get to the top and the flats and i love it again. My bike weighs 9.5kg which I know isn't super light but for £600 it seems good for a carbon frame. I think my issue is that I'm attacking hills with the want to not drop any speed so keep pushing as hard as I can and dropping gears and trying to get to the top as quick as I can. From watching some videos I think I should just be dropping it in a low gear and pacing myself and just deal with the fact I feel like a snail? It's like eveeytime I hit a hill I also hit the wall.
Any recommendations as I'm literally planning rides to try and miss as many hills as I can and just not doing them if it means lots of climbing hills.
Thanks guys
So get used to climbing and if you want to go faster work on it. At 74 years of age and using a gear of 39-23 I'm climbing 1,000 feet over 3 miles with max grades of about 12%. I simply ride slower between the steep parts where you have to really push hard. At the beginning of the season I'm dragging up this hill but mid-season I hardly notice the climbing. There are a lot of hills around here that you can climb and the climbs aren't the problems after awhile but descending and not getting carried away and getting in over your head. After the weather warms up I can generally pull out the "light" bike and climb in a 34-23 with a higher cadence and higher speeds.
But I will still be passed by the 20 somethings and I just don't worry about it. Riding is for fun and not trying to compete against the world - only compete against people in your category. Mine is 44.
If you don't notice 1,000ft in 3 miles I suspect you are the exception rather than the rule :-)0 -
Tyresome wrote:keef66 wrote:Tyresome wrote:Remember that your body will tend to fuel differently depending on which method you choose as well. High power spinning (relatively low torque, high cadence biased power which up hill will be ) will see the body mostly fat fuelling, where as high power grinding ( relatively low cadence, high torque biased power ) will see the body fuelling more on stored Glycogen. So if your route is a decent length, with hills at various intervals, it should feel easier / more comfortable to grind more early on, whilst you still have decent Glycogen levels, and spin later on when the glycogen has depleted.
Why trot out such nonsense to somebody who admits they are new to road cycling?
It’s not “ nonsense” it’s scientifically determined fact. Whether you like it or not matters little. These facts have been determined by experts so why would you not want someone to know?
Makes perfect sense to me. Perhaps it was because you didn't "dumb-down" your reply to suit the OP - i.e. you didn't shy away from explaining the science - even if many of us don't understand it fully.
A more down to earth explanation, might be...
At the start of a ride, your body is fresher, strength and energy at 100% (hopefully!), as the ride progresses that strength and energy is expended and you need to fuel up according to the journey ahead. As the day wears on the body tires and you start dropping down your gears regardless of whether riding on the flat or in the hills.
That's endurance riding. Many cyclists only find time for rides averaging 2-4 hours in length. As the weather improves people entertain longer rides, 100 milers etc... so endurance riding and correct fuelling becomes more important to the rider and the group.
In short, if you only have time for a shorter ride, you tend to ride harder, if you can ride all day you bring your pace down to suit.0 -
djrikki wrote:Makes perfect sense to me. Perhaps it was because you didn't "dumb-down" your reply to suit the OP - i.e. you didn't shy away from explaining the science - even if many of us don't understand it fully.
Nobody knows which 'science' Nick is referring to, because he is unable to support it with even a simple link. Doesn't alter the fact that the body simply does not use fuel in the way that he describes.0 -
I wonder what fuel you use at 6rpm??? Bulls**t? If so, that explains a lot.0
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It's nothing to do with the fuelling. It's just that hills are new to the OP. Just ride lots of them.0
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hills are one of those things that definitley get easier the more you do of them.
A bit like drinking beer and the performance of the two seem to be directly related0 -
Alejandrosdog wrote:hills are one of those things that definitley get easier the more you do of them.
A bit like drinking beer and the performance of the two seem to be directly related
Very true
As Fausto Coppi said, the best 3 ways to train for a ride are; Ride your bike, ride your bike and ride your bike.0 -
I think the science of training has moved on a little since then.... :roll: :roll:Tyresome wrote:Alejandrosdog wrote:hills are one of those things that definitley get easier the more you do of them.
A bit like drinking beer and the performance of the two seem to be directly related
Very true
As Fausto Coppi said, the best 3 ways to train for a ride are; Ride your bike, ride your bike and ride your bike.FFS! Harden up and grow a pair0 -
The science has moved on, but anyone who trains like Fausto Coppi or Eddie Mercx is still going to do pretty well on a bike and is actually still pretty good advice for anyone new to cycling who wants to improve. Who cares about science if you only want to ride well and enjoy it.Svetty wrote:
I think the science of training has moved on a little since then.... :roll: :roll:Tyresome wrote:Alejandrosdog wrote:hills are one of those things that definitley get easier the more you do of them.
A bit like drinking beer and the performance of the two seem to be directly related
Very true
As Fausto Coppi said, the best 3 ways to train for a ride are; Ride your bike, ride your bike and ride your bike.0 -
OnTheRopes wrote:Who cares about science if you only want to ride well and enjoy it.
Nick does - he said so earlier!0 -
hmmm Scientology perhaps?Imposter wrote:OnTheRopes wrote:Who cares about science if you only want to ride well and enjoy it.
Nick does - he said so earlier!0 -
Quite right. Ride the bike first, think about what’s going on later.OnTheRopes wrote:
The science has moved on, but anyone who trains like Fausto Coppi or Eddie Mercx is still going to do pretty well on a bike and is actually still pretty good advice for anyone new to cycling who wants to improve. Who cares about science if you only want to ride well and enjoy it.Svetty wrote:
I think the science of training has moved on a little since then.... :roll: :roll:Tyresome wrote:Alejandrosdog wrote:hills are one of those things that definitley get easier the more you do of them.
A bit like drinking beer and the performance of the two seem to be directly related
Very true
As Fausto Coppi said, the best 3 ways to train for a ride are; Ride your bike, ride your bike and ride your bike.0
