Turbo legs v Road legs???

tonysj
tonysj Posts: 391
Hi All.
«1

Comments

  • alex222
    alex222 Posts: 598
    Road
  • diamonddog
    diamonddog Posts: 3,426
    1 Road
    2 Turbo
  • tonysj
    tonysj Posts: 391
    TonySJ wrote:
    Hi All.
    I'm the last 7 weeks I've only been out twice on the roads and must be near 12 times on the turbo but my legs today after a steady 38 miler on the roads are buzzing and tired yet when I go on the turbo trainer it's the opposite. They feel drained straight after but recover in a couple of hours.
    The turbo sessions are less that 60 minutes normally 40 to 45 but are more intense Hiit type after 5 minutes of warm up.
    Could someone explain why, although it may be a simple answer, as I would have thought the trainer sessions would leave me more fatigued.
    Regards.
    Tony.
  • diamonddog
    diamonddog Posts: 3,426
    Probably because you have only been out twice on the road and not done enough endurance road work.
    Go out and put the miles in would be my advice.
  • diamonddog
    diamonddog Posts: 3,426
    :shock:
    TonySJ wrote:
    Could someone explain why, although it may be a simple answer, as I would have thought the trainer sessions would leave me more fatigued.
    Regards.
    Tony.

    The simple answer to this quite complex question is lack of tissue jiggle and lack of the sorts of instantaneous power demands caused by knackered tarmac and pot holes which you don’t encounter on a Turbo compared to road riding. If you add in the fact that a road bike on a road ride moves around more you get quite a difference. The core muscles don’t get worked in the same way on most turbos as they do on proper road rides. There are some turbos and stationary bikes which have a rocking function and these mitigate the loss of core muscle work to an extent.

    :lol::lol::lol:
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    You don't move through the air on a turbo. Well I don't, anyway. You can get out of the saddle on a turbo if you want to.

    Peeps who just turbo it during the winter are cr4p at descending once they get out there.
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 5,843
    edited December 2018
    Depends upon what you are doing on the turbo and what type of outdoor rides you do, in terms of power intervals relative to your FTP, in my opinion.

    On Xmas Eve, I put myself through the ringer...
    https://www.strava.com/activities/20336 ... stribution (moderate 4min warmup then just above my FTP of ~290W)
    https://www.strava.com/activities/20336 ... stribution (easy recovery from above)
    https://www.strava.com/activities/20336 ... stribution (alternating between 2mins easiest gear and then 34/18 for 1min intervals initially and then at least 2mins)
    https://www.strava.com/activities/20336 ... stribution (warming down from the above)

    That second workout was brutal after completing the first course not much slower than my PB and then initially trying to hold ~400W on those first two intervals on the second workout, my legs were screaming during that final interval. :twisted:

    While in contrast, nursing my worst hangover in a while, last night's ~2 hour recovery ride up and down Stelvio was very easy on my legs and heart... It was all about whether I could mentally complete the task in such a sorry state from the wine consumed on Xmas Day! :oops:
    https://www.strava.com/activities/20370 ... stribution
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,674
    diamonddog wrote:
    :shock:
    TonySJ wrote:
    Could someone explain why, although it may be a simple answer, as I would have thought the trainer sessions would leave me more fatigued.
    Regards.
    Tony.

    The simple answer to this quite complex question is lack of tissue jiggle and lack of the sorts of instantaneous power demands caused by knackered tarmac and pot holes which you don’t encounter on a Turbo compared to road riding. If you add in the fact that a road bike on a road ride moves around more you get quite a difference. The core muscles don’t get worked in the same way on most turbos as they do on proper road rides. There are some turbos and stationary bikes which have a rocking function and these mitigate the loss of core muscle work to an extent.

    :lol::lol::lol:

    Something funny you clueless Cnut?
    Bzzztt. Family friendly forum klaxon alert.
  • diamonddog
    diamonddog Posts: 3,426
    diamonddog wrote:
    :shock:
    TonySJ wrote:

    Something funny you clueless Cnut?

    :lol::lol::lol:
    You have been sussed Nick/MM, yet again.
    :lol::lol::lol:
  • tonysj
    tonysj Posts: 391
    TonySJ wrote:
    Could someone explain why, although it may be a simple answer, as I would have thought the trainer sessions would leave me more fatigued.
    Regards.
    Tony.

    The simple answer to this quite complex question is lack of tissue jiggle and lack of the sorts of instantaneous power demands caused by knackered tarmac and pot holes which you don’t encounter on a Turbo compared to road riding. If you add in the fact that a road bike on a road ride moves around more you get quite a difference. The core muscles don’t get worked in the same way on most turbos as they do on proper road rides. There are some turbos and stationary bikes which have a rocking function and these mitigate the loss of core muscle work to an extent. The flip side of the coin is that you can’t coast on most turbos so you do get a more vigorous work out because you’re working for more of the ride on a Turbo

    Thanks for this reply, I can see what your getting at but never really thought about it that deeply, but makes sense.
    Cheers. Tony.
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    It's an endurance thing, Tony, and perhaps related to cold temperatures.
    Ben

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  • Tissue Jiggle !

    Well there's a thing.
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    Brakeless wrote:
    Tissue Jiggle !

    Well there's a thing.
    Is that the same as fat wobbling.
  • Webboo wrote:
    Brakeless wrote:
    Tissue Jiggle !

    Well there's a thing.
    Is that the same as fat wobbling.

    I get it on my bingo wings and man boobs, but not so much on the turbo since there’s no wind or pot holes. :D
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,320
    edited December 2018
    Whereas... I have a hell of a job just staying on the rollers, despite the lack of potholes and I jiggle a helluva lot. A slight smidgeon of grease gives me that muddy Liege-Bastogne-Liege feel and Mrs P can use the watering can (with ice) to add the weather element. Then, when I duct tape a hair dryer to the handlebars, I then have a head wind to over come and when I tape it to the book case, then I have a cross wind to deal with. All in all, my core stability is much improved though multiple Clavicle fractures (and electrical shorts) have set me back a bit...

    cont.p94
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • I found you can replicate the average British Road by smashing your rollers with a hammer. You can cut sections out with a hacksaw as a kind or roubaix cobble.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Or just ride in the road. Riding in the cold is hard work even if the power is low.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,320
    Sandyballs wrote:
    I found you can replicate the average British Road by smashing your rollers with a hammer. You can cut sections out with a hacksaw as a kind or roubaix cobble.

    I thought of drilling random holes in the rollers and putting a decent buckle in my back wheel.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • it's not about the legs.
    It's about the head... when you are on a stationary trainer, you can stop any time you want, when you are on the road, you need to go back.
    Training on a small circuit like Richmond park is almost the same as indoor training (unless you live far from it)
    left the forum March 2023
  • big_harv
    big_harv Posts: 512
    Pinno wrote:
    Sandyballs wrote:
    I found you can replicate the average British Road by smashing your rollers with a hammer. You can cut sections out with a hacksaw as a kind or roubaix cobble.

    I thought of drilling random holes in the rollers and putting a decent buckle in my back wheel.

    And get a friend/partner to chuck buckets of cold water over you. And shout abuse.
  • Pinno wrote:
    Whereas... I have a hell of a job just staying on the rollers, despite the lack of potholes and I jiggle a helluva lot. A slight smidgeon of grease gives me that muddy Liege-Bastogne-Liege feel and Mrs P can use the watering can (with ice) to add the weather element. Then, when I duct tape a hair dryer to the handlebars, I then have a head wind to over come and when I tape it to the book case, then I have a cross wind to deal with. All in all, my core stability is much improved though multiple Clavicle fractures (and electrical shorts) have set me back a bit...

    cont.p94
    I train in electrical shorts to simulate the static charge.
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    Many a true word spoken in jest. The amount of choppers I see ‘hedging’ it, early doors of the ‘Sportive season’ because they’ve been on the Turbo and their grip on the brakes has disappeared is amusing. They lose a lot of core conditioning as well, and underestimate how much difference there is between using your legs as a shock absorbers and a source of power simultaneously, and just spinning the hours away on a Turbo.
    If you tried riding at 14 mph you might find your technique might not be too hot.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,320
    ...at a cadence of <45rpm.
    I dunno, when the gyroscopic effect is minimal, it takes a lot of effort to stay on.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Many a true word spoken in jest. The amount of choppers I see ‘hedging’ it, early doors of the ‘Sportive season’ because they’ve been on the Turbo and their grip on the brakes has disappeared is amusing. They lose a lot of core conditioning as well, and underestimate how much difference there is between using your legs as a shock absorbers and a source of power simultaneously, and just spinning the hours away on a Turbo.

    Absolute BS.
    More imagination than JK Rowling.
  • diamonddog
    diamonddog Posts: 3,426
    Many a true word spoken in jest. The amount of choppers I see ‘hedging’ it, early doors of the ‘Sportive season’ because they’ve been on the Turbo and their grip on the brakes has disappeared is amusing. They lose a lot of core conditioning as well, and underestimate how much difference there is between using your legs as a shock absorbers and a source of power simultaneously, and just spinning the hours away on a Turbo.
    :lol::lol::lol:
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Many a true word spoken in jest. The amount of choppers I see ‘hedging’ it, early doors of the ‘Sportive season’ because they’ve been on the Turbo and their grip on the brakes has disappeared is amusing. They lose a lot of core conditioning as well, and underestimate how much difference there is between using your legs as a shock absorbers and a source of power simultaneously, and just spinning the hours away on a Turbo.

    Deliriously absurd...all of it...
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,320
    Maybe we are all wrong and he's right.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Pinno wrote:
    Maybe we are all wrong and he's right.

    He will absolutely love that comment..
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Nice to see another knowledgeable person on here ( said no one, ever)

    Looking forward to the day when the admins find a way to ban you permanently from this site - and also looking forward to the day when your ISP finally gets enough complaints about you to close your internet account. Neither of those days can come soon enough.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Well the low vs high Cadence thing has been done to death. Anyone with at least a modicum of experience / knowledge knows how the two approaches differ, and why. I vary my strategy, dependant on what Im doing. I’ll quite happily trot along at a sub 70 or 80 rpms, or at over 90 rpms. It’s been proven how the different approaches work, and why. To cut a long story short, if your making enough power to justify it, at higher Cadences, the fast twitch muscles are engaged in a fashion, which means they are feeding primarily with Glycogen stores, which is more efficient , at a similar power, with a lower Cadence, those muscles are feeding primarily off of fat, which is less efficient ( it’s an equilibrium, shifted one way or the other, dependant on frequency, and duration of ‘switching’ of the fast twitch muscles in particular). Proper actual pro racers tend to have very low body fat percentages, in order to maintain a high power to weight ratio, therefore they have to favour the high Cadence approach, and keep the ‘low hanging fruit’ reserves going, by feeding with ‘gels’ and the like, as they have relatively low fat reserves.

    Do you ever stop trolling/lying/talking cr@p? This post has all three...