LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
Comments
-
Strong straw man effort here. You've made up something you think I'd say and then spent the rest of the post refuting it.ballysmate said:Don't necessarily disagree re postal votes, but you do have to get the signature spot on, so there is some checks made. As I said earlier, I would support measures to improve that system as well.
What do you find so distasteful about having to identify yourself in order to vote? I'm sure such as Rick would blame fascist Tories for being fascist.
Here's a list of some other 'fascist' countries
Norway mandates that voters present a photo ID, including a “passport, driving license, or bank card that includes a photo,” to vote.
Voters in Northern Ireland must present an “acceptable photo identification” to cast an in-person ballot.
Germany requires that voters bring a state-issued voter identification card, but they can substitute another form of ID for that card if they fail to deliver it at the polls.
Ballots in Switzerland are issued by mail, and voters who return their ballots in person are required to show an ID and a state-issued polling card to do so.
France requires a voter ID.
Israel requires a voter ID.
Mexico requires a voter ID.
Iceland requires a voter ID
Not that onerous to produce a recognised form of id is it? Or do you consider it "Not British, old boy!"
I don't really follow your argument that because other countries do it it's OK to do it in mainland UK? One doesn't necessarily follow the other .
I don't really understand the logic that there is no fraud problem but let's make it more difficult for people to vote anyway.
You must be familiar with the well publicised efforts of Republican law makers in the US to suppress turnout in likely democrat voting districts by using laws like ID cards for votes.
What makes you think that isn't the real motive here?
0 -
I read that ireland has had reducing voter turnout since the introduction of voter ID.
Finding it hard to get behind Bally here.0 -
What form would this fraud take? People showing up to polling stations and pretending to be someone else? Would that not have shown itself already, like it did in Northern Ireland before measures were taken to address it?ballysmate said:
To PREVENT voter fraud, the extent of which is unknown. It may be just the cases that have been detected or it could be more common, nobody really knows the exact level.kingstongraham said:So that's the "side effect" - what's the problem it's going to address?
Have you ever shown up to vote and found someone has already voted in your name?0 -
"People like us"kingstongraham said:
That's the point. "People like us" aren't affected.ballysmate said:
Would it make you less likely to vote? Wouldn't deter me.rick_chasey said:Does Bally recognise that the proposal will likely make it more difficult to vote? So inevitably, fewer people will vote?
And if so, does Bally feel that trade off is worth it?
Anybody else on here not gonna vote? Well apart from Jezboy who has just scoffed his passport.
Low propensity voters who really aren't that interested will be less likely to vote. As many people as possible should vote.
What's that mean?
If someone can drag their ar5e to the polling station, it is very little extra effort to put their hand in their pocket to produce an id. People do it often enough to buy restricted items in shops. Some even pay 15 quid for a citizen card in order to buy stuff, so the prospect of a free card to show that they are over 18 will be a bonus to them and save them 15 quid.0 -
People who talk politics on a forum.ballysmate said:
"People like us"kingstongraham said:
That's the point. "People like us" aren't affected.ballysmate said:
Would it make you less likely to vote? Wouldn't deter me.rick_chasey said:Does Bally recognise that the proposal will likely make it more difficult to vote? So inevitably, fewer people will vote?
And if so, does Bally feel that trade off is worth it?
Anybody else on here not gonna vote? Well apart from Jezboy who has just scoffed his passport.
Low propensity voters who really aren't that interested will be less likely to vote. As many people as possible should vote.
What's that mean?
If someone can drag their ar5e to the polling station, it is very little extra effort to put their hand in their pocket to produce an id. People do it often enough to buy restricted items in shops. Some even pay 15 quid for a citizen card in order to buy stuff, so the prospect of a free card to show that they are over 18 will be a bonus to them and save them 15 quid.
The rest of the post is, again, looking at it the wrong way round.0 -
What is the wrong way round?kingstongraham said:
People who talk politics on a forum.ballysmate said:
"People like us"kingstongraham said:
That's the point. "People like us" aren't affected.ballysmate said:
Would it make you less likely to vote? Wouldn't deter me.rick_chasey said:Does Bally recognise that the proposal will likely make it more difficult to vote? So inevitably, fewer people will vote?
And if so, does Bally feel that trade off is worth it?
Anybody else on here not gonna vote? Well apart from Jezboy who has just scoffed his passport.
Low propensity voters who really aren't that interested will be less likely to vote. As many people as possible should vote.
What's that mean?
If someone can drag their ar5e to the polling station, it is very little extra effort to put their hand in their pocket to produce an id. People do it often enough to buy restricted items in shops. Some even pay 15 quid for a citizen card in order to buy stuff, so the prospect of a free card to show that they are over 18 will be a bonus to them and save them 15 quid.
The rest of the post is, again, looking at it the wrong way round.
What is so onerous in rocking up at your local polling station, saying that your name is Graham Kingston and producing an id when asked?
People do it every day. Wanting to collect a parcel from the Royal Mail depot for instance. Not hard is it?0 -
So the stats say c.2.4m or so have no formal ID.ballysmate said:
What is the wrong way round?kingstongraham said:
People who talk politics on a forum.ballysmate said:
"People like us"kingstongraham said:
That's the point. "People like us" aren't affected.ballysmate said:
Would it make you less likely to vote? Wouldn't deter me.rick_chasey said:Does Bally recognise that the proposal will likely make it more difficult to vote? So inevitably, fewer people will vote?
And if so, does Bally feel that trade off is worth it?
Anybody else on here not gonna vote? Well apart from Jezboy who has just scoffed his passport.
Low propensity voters who really aren't that interested will be less likely to vote. As many people as possible should vote.
What's that mean?
If someone can drag their ar5e to the polling station, it is very little extra effort to put their hand in their pocket to produce an id. People do it often enough to buy restricted items in shops. Some even pay 15 quid for a citizen card in order to buy stuff, so the prospect of a free card to show that they are over 18 will be a bonus to them and save them 15 quid.
The rest of the post is, again, looking at it the wrong way round.
What is so onerous in rocking up at your local polling station, saying that your name is Graham Kingston and producing an id when asked?
People do it every day. Wanting to collect a parcel from the Royal Mail depot for instance. Not hard is it?0 -
Some people do, some people don't.
ALL of the people who don't, will be negatively affected by this change.
You seem to not be able to grasp that voter fraud is not really a material issue in this country, but ease of voting is important.0 -
It's the wrong way round because any new requirement that will probably reduce voter participation needs a good justification.ballysmate said:
What is the wrong way round?kingstongraham said:
People who talk politics on a forum.ballysmate said:
"People like us"kingstongraham said:
That's the point. "People like us" aren't affected.ballysmate said:
Would it make you less likely to vote? Wouldn't deter me.rick_chasey said:Does Bally recognise that the proposal will likely make it more difficult to vote? So inevitably, fewer people will vote?
And if so, does Bally feel that trade off is worth it?
Anybody else on here not gonna vote? Well apart from Jezboy who has just scoffed his passport.
Low propensity voters who really aren't that interested will be less likely to vote. As many people as possible should vote.
What's that mean?
If someone can drag their ar5e to the polling station, it is very little extra effort to put their hand in their pocket to produce an id. People do it often enough to buy restricted items in shops. Some even pay 15 quid for a citizen card in order to buy stuff, so the prospect of a free card to show that they are over 18 will be a bonus to them and save them 15 quid.
The rest of the post is, again, looking at it the wrong way round.
What is so onerous in rocking up at your local polling station, saying that your name is Graham Kingston and producing an id when asked?
People do it every day. Wanting to collect a parcel from the Royal Mail depot for instance. Not hard is it?
0 -
(Also not particularly relevant, but Royal Mail doesn't need photo ID to collect a parcel, you can use a debit card.)0
-
Worth also saying that this is about as far away from being "focused on the people's priorities" as it's possible to get.0
-
Voter ID *was* introduced in NI to combat a specific problem of fraud and the widespread lack of confidence in the electoral process.
While it does that, combined with the requirement to regularly reregister, it reduces participation in the democratic process is some demographics
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmniaf/131/13109.htm
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Even better! 🤣🤣🤣Jezyboy said:The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Still need id though eh?kingstongraham said:(Also not particularly relevant, but Royal Mail doesn't need photo ID to collect a parcel, you can use a debit card.)
0 -
And can be provided with id with no cost to them. Surely a bonus for people with no id at all who may need some form of id in other aspects of their life?rick_chasey said:
So the stats say c.2.4m or so have no formal ID.ballysmate said:
What is the wrong way round?kingstongraham said:
People who talk politics on a forum.ballysmate said:
"People like us"kingstongraham said:
That's the point. "People like us" aren't affected.ballysmate said:
Would it make you less likely to vote? Wouldn't deter me.rick_chasey said:Does Bally recognise that the proposal will likely make it more difficult to vote? So inevitably, fewer people will vote?
And if so, does Bally feel that trade off is worth it?
Anybody else on here not gonna vote? Well apart from Jezboy who has just scoffed his passport.
Low propensity voters who really aren't that interested will be less likely to vote. As many people as possible should vote.
What's that mean?
If someone can drag their ar5e to the polling station, it is very little extra effort to put their hand in their pocket to produce an id. People do it often enough to buy restricted items in shops. Some even pay 15 quid for a citizen card in order to buy stuff, so the prospect of a free card to show that they are over 18 will be a bonus to them and save them 15 quid.
The rest of the post is, again, looking at it the wrong way round.
What is so onerous in rocking up at your local polling station, saying that your name is Graham Kingston and producing an id when asked?
People do it every day. Wanting to collect a parcel from the Royal Mail depot for instance. Not hard is it?0 -
This would be an activity that is at high risk of fraud, which is why I said it wasn't particularly relevant.ballysmate said:
Still need id though eh?kingstongraham said:(Also not particularly relevant, but Royal Mail doesn't need photo ID to collect a parcel, you can use a debit card.)
0 -
You're trying to frame the argument from the wrong starting point still.ballysmate said:
And can be provided with id with no cost to them. Surely a bonus for people with no id at all who may need some form of id in other aspects of their life?rick_chasey said:
So the stats say c.2.4m or so have no formal ID.ballysmate said:
What is the wrong way round?kingstongraham said:
People who talk politics on a forum.ballysmate said:
"People like us"kingstongraham said:
That's the point. "People like us" aren't affected.ballysmate said:
Would it make you less likely to vote? Wouldn't deter me.rick_chasey said:Does Bally recognise that the proposal will likely make it more difficult to vote? So inevitably, fewer people will vote?
And if so, does Bally feel that trade off is worth it?
Anybody else on here not gonna vote? Well apart from Jezboy who has just scoffed his passport.
Low propensity voters who really aren't that interested will be less likely to vote. As many people as possible should vote.
What's that mean?
If someone can drag their ar5e to the polling station, it is very little extra effort to put their hand in their pocket to produce an id. People do it often enough to buy restricted items in shops. Some even pay 15 quid for a citizen card in order to buy stuff, so the prospect of a free card to show that they are over 18 will be a bonus to them and save them 15 quid.
The rest of the post is, again, looking at it the wrong way round.
What is so onerous in rocking up at your local polling station, saying that your name is Graham Kingston and producing an id when asked?
People do it every day. Wanting to collect a parcel from the Royal Mail depot for instance. Not hard is it?0 -
Tbf I've skipped over over 50 pages of this thread and just skimmed the last few pages. I thought I had a better than evens chance of being right with the fascist crack from what I read.rick_chasey said:
Strong straw man effort here. You've made up something you think I'd say and then spent the rest of the post refuting it.ballysmate said:Don't necessarily disagree re postal votes, but you do have to get the signature spot on, so there is some checks made. As I said earlier, I would support measures to improve that system as well.
What do you find so distasteful about having to identify yourself in order to vote? I'm sure such as Rick would blame fascist Tories for being fascist.
Here's a list of some other 'fascist' countries
Norway mandates that voters present a photo ID, including a “passport, driving license, or bank card that includes a photo,” to vote.
Voters in Northern Ireland must present an “acceptable photo identification” to cast an in-person ballot.
Germany requires that voters bring a state-issued voter identification card, but they can substitute another form of ID for that card if they fail to deliver it at the polls.
Ballots in Switzerland are issued by mail, and voters who return their ballots in person are required to show an ID and a state-issued polling card to do so.
France requires a voter ID.
Israel requires a voter ID.
Mexico requires a voter ID.
Iceland requires a voter ID
Not that onerous to produce a recognised form of id is it? Or do you consider it "Not British, old boy!"
I don't really follow your argument that because other countries do it it's OK to do it in mainland UK? One doesn't necessarily follow the other .
I don't really understand the logic that there is no fraud problem but let's make it more difficult for people to vote anyway.
You must be familiar with the well publicised efforts of Republican law makers in the US to suppress turnout in likely democrat voting districts by using laws like ID cards for votes.
What makes you think that isn't the real motive here?
Brexiteer.. fascist, Boris.. fascist, Tory.. fascist, pensioner.. er.. that would be fascist wouldn't it? I thought I saw a pattern.
Not arguing that because other countries do it we should do it. Just pointing out that we would not be alone in having the requirement to produce id.
Other countries, including N Ireland have identified the risk of fraud and have taken steps to try to prevent it. UK is now taking similar measures.
Have you turned into some sort of gammon in my absence over the last couple of months, thinking that only Johnny Foreigner could stoop to fraud and we Britishers are above such distasteful things?
1 -
A cabinet minister has confirmed that this is a negligible problem. As I said if the numbers were significant, the government would not be proposing the legislation.ballysmate said:
To PREVENT voter fraud, the extent of which is unknown. It may be just the cases that have been detected or it could be more common, nobody really knows the exact level.kingstongraham said:So that's the "side effect" - what's the problem it's going to address?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I guess you're just trying to be obtuse here, or accidentally missing the point.0
-
No. 10 releases a press read out of a call between Boris and NI First & deputy First Ministers. Included in the release is the claim that Boris apologised to the Ballymurphy families
Neither the DUP nor SF readouts include this and the families knew nothing about it.
The man isn't fit to be PM
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
On the universities, Evan Davis manages to manoeuvre the Universities minister into defending Holocaust deniers which is obviously not a good look.
I suspect there will need to be some careful drafting of this free speech bill else it is used as cover for all manner of extremist behaviour.0 -
I'm confused. I saw that on the news as he had given an unreserved apology. So, he gave out a statement saying he had given an unreserved apology, but not to the actual people to whom he should have been apologised?tailwindhome said:No. 10 releases a press read out of a call between Boris and NI First & deputy First Ministers. Included in the release is the claim that Boris apologised to the Ballymurphy families
Neither the DUP nor SF readouts include this and the families knew nothing about it.
The man isn't fit to be PM1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It’ll be both amusing and worrying when they find more jihadists legitimately peddling their wares in campus under this new ‘openness’.rick_chasey said:On the universities, Evan Davis manages to manoeuvre the Universities minister into defending Holocaust deniers which is obviously not a good look.
I suspect there will need to be some careful drafting of this free speech bill else it is used as cover for all manner of extremist behaviour.
0 -
Thing is, nobody can deny the Tories have put themselves in a very powerful position for the foreseeable election cycle at least.
However, even if I were a loyal supporter, there is reason to be cautious.
It is dominated by one half of the party following the Brexit cull and is also pandering to a non-traditional Tory voter.
There are no internal or external checks and balances with weak opposition both internally and externally.
I see the Republicans are still purging Trump deniers from their ranks if you need any indication of where we are heading. That’s for refuting the constant lies of a narcissistic, would be dictator.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-570902020 -
That's about the long and short of it.rjsterry said:
I'm confused. I saw that on the news as he had given an unreserved apology. So, he gave out a statement saying he had given an unreserved apology, but not to the actual people to whom he should have been apologised?tailwindhome said:No. 10 releases a press read out of a call between Boris and NI First & deputy First Ministers. Included in the release is the claim that Boris apologised to the Ballymurphy families
Neither the DUP nor SF readouts include this and the families knew nothing about it.
The man isn't fit to be PM
There has been no direct apology, no public apology and neither the DUP nor SF seem aware of a 'pass it on' apology
Drawing very unflattering comparisons with Camerons handling of Bloody Sunday.
He'll send Brandon Lewis to make a statement and hide
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
She does not defend holocaust deniers for their views - but it would have been more interesting if he had asked about other repugnant but not illegal views as well.rick_chasey said:On the universities, Evan Davis manages to manoeuvre the Universities minister into defending Holocaust deniers which is obviously not a good look.
I suspect there will need to be some careful drafting of this free speech bill else it is used as cover for all manner of extremist behaviour.
Where the interview was good was in trying to establish why she thought it would work to help Brexit supporting students to be less shy with their views among their peers (one of the examples she gave), when it clearly won't.0 -
I think the strong electoral position will be his downfall as there will be no risk in ditching him for a true blue.morstar said:Thing is, nobody can deny the Tories have put themselves in a very powerful position for the foreseeable election cycle at least.
However, even if I were a loyal supporter, there is reason to be cautious.
It is dominated by one half of the party following the Brexit cull and is also pandering to a non-traditional Tory voter.
There are no internal or external checks and balances with weak opposition both internally and externally.
I see the Republicans are still purging Trump deniers from their ranks if you need any indication of where we are heading. That’s for refuting the constant lies of a narcissistic, would be dictator.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-570902020 -
According to The Times Comrade Boris is going to make the Uk a “green shipbuilding superpower”0
