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Disappeared threads

Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 43,937
At least three long-running threads have recently disappeared from The Bottom Bracket and The CrudCatcher sub-forums. There are no announcements or explanations that we can see.

Could someone tell us why they were removed and also can we have them back please?

If it's down to some body breaking the rules then any chance of removing any offending posts and restoring the threads?

Thanks in advance.
Whippet
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Panzer
Commuter

"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
«13

Posts

  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    Sure they haven't just dropped off the bottom out of boredom?
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,019
    I suspect this may be related to the re-appearance of milemuncher, who opened his seventh new user account on Friday and started posting again today..
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    Who is he this time?
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    Never mind, found him.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,019
    I can't imagine how hard it must be to come up with seven (or more) unique user names within such a short time frame..?
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,150
    cooldad wrote:
    Sure they haven't just dropped off the bottom out of boredom?

    Well frequented, given the number of views/posts.

    Given that they were within the rools, I am intrigued to know why they have been deleted and after who said what to whom.
    If the contemporary is 'Metro sexual' then if some one wants to start a thread 'Big Hipsters in Shorts' or similar (as a sort of counter balance), then they should fill their boots. Parity achieved.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • cyclopathic1?
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,150
    cyclopathic1?

    Never mind him. He's got as much leverage as a marshmallow crow bar.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,532
    What are we going to do when this thread about the disappeared threads disappears?
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,532
    The could at least send an offline PDF digest of all the posts to anyone who posted on a thread when they delete it...! I would volunteer to compile it for one of the threads in particular.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 43,937
    apreading wrote:
    The could at least send an offline PDF digest of all the posts to anyone who posted on a thread when they delete it...! I would volunteer to compile it for one of the threads in particular.
    Form an orderly queue.
    Whippet
    Bruiser
    Panzer
    Commuter

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Here is a note from BikeRadar's Editor explaining the decision:

    "As a family friendly website with a broad international readership we would like our forums to remain as inclusive as possible.

    "With this in mind, we’ve removed a number of threads with topics or material that we feel should no longer have a place on BikeRadar."

    Cheers.
    BikeRadar Communities Manager
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,532
    I think its fair enough - probably wouldnt be the decision some on here would make but everyone has their own opinion and the editor has the right to act on theirs.

    I must say it would be alot better if they would post a message saying that they are doing it and/or leave the thread there but lock it and replace all the posts with one from the editor explaining why its gone.

    What I got was a subscription email telling me there was a new post on the thread, I clicked on it and it said topic not found. I then spent a few minutes working out if the site had an error and it was there really or if they post was actually gone.

    The arbitrary removal with no courtesy afforded to the site users is mildly annoying and they could/should do better.

    At least the editor has taken the time eventually to let us know though.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 43,937
    joshjevans wrote:
    Here is a note from BikeRadar's Editor explaining the decision:

    "As a family friendly website with a broad international readership we would like our forums to remain as inclusive as possible.

    "With this in mind, we’ve removed a number of threads with topics or material that we feel should no longer have a place on BikeRadar."

    Cheers.
    Josh,

    The threads removed were in sections of the website that require you to be signed in to even see: they also have clear warnings like 'adults only - you may be offended' before you go onto the sub-forums.

    Seems as if site traffic is on a downward path here and removing the more interesting threads may not help this. However it's the Editors choice. As mentioned above, it would have been good if we had been given some advance warning - or the chance to debate the point as happened last time this came up.

    Would also be good if they could reconsider...
    Whippet
    Bruiser
    Panzer
    Commuter

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,019
    "With this in mind, we’ve removed a number of threads with topics or material that we feel should no longer have a place on BikeRadar."

    Meanwhile, a proven, persistent and prolific online troll with multiple bans and multiple user accounts across the wider internet is fine to just carry on....and obviously does 'have a place on Bikeradar'...
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,150
    ...and a moderator uses language like shitwankfest in Cake Stop - in an open part of the forum!?

    If pictures of women get deleted when insults and foul language can be posted indiscriminately in parts of the forum that are open to all, there's an inherent hypocrisy there.

    As said before, BB is an adults only section. No one 'stumbles' on that part of the forum.
    There's generally far less bickering, arguments, foul language, bitchyness in there, than many other parts of the forum ironically.

    'Sterilising' Bike Radar will not increase traffic.
    Even handed moderation will do more to encourage newbies and put an end to threads being totally monopolised by a few individuals and going completely off topic with the same old same old.

    Imposter - please give up on 'him'. Simply flag it up. It's getting tedious.

    Nick Prenderville aka Milemuncher/Bottom briquettes/Ericshun etc etc is not adding any value to this forum. Please get the IT boys to block the IP address.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,019
    pinno wrote:
    Imposter - please give up on 'him'. Simply flag it up. It's getting tedious.

    I agree. And apologies. But there is a principle at stake here.
  • We didn't delete the BGT to increase traffic - it had nearly 4M page views, there is simply no reason to have that on this forum and we took the view to delete it.

    There are plenty of places to peruse those images online but BikeRadar.com is not going to be one of them anymore, sorry.

    Please stop trying to reignite the thread, I will delete it and going forward will just issue a permanent ban for those posting the images.

    To confirm why it's removed see forum rule 19 here: If the actions and posts of any member are causing the use of the forum to be unpleasant for others, the moderators can take action regardless of whether or not that user's posts are in contravention of the above rules.

    Or term 16b here from Immediate Media's T&C's: (b) nothing in the user Contribution is defamatory, obscene, indecent, pornographic, sexually explicit, harassing, threatening or offensive, incites racial, cultural or religious hatred, impersonates or appears to impersonate any other person, is in contempt of court, violates any law or regulation or encourages conduct that would amount to a criminal offence (including without limitation any conduct that would be considered an offence under the Terrorism Act 2006) or give rise to a civil liability and/or is otherwise objectionable and/or an infringement of any UK or other applicable law or regulation;

    Unfortunately this decision isn't open to discussion and I apologise for any inconvenience caused.
    BikeRadar Communities Manager
  • I wish I'd posted the photos I found that showed all the lady bits that would have got me banned, even though there were also bicycles in shot.
  • Clearly the right decision. I always thought it was odd and anachronistic to have threads like that on a cycling forum.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 43,937
    joshjevans wrote:
    We didn't delete the BGT to increase traffic - it had nearly 4M page views, there is simply no reason to have that on this forum and we took the view to delete it.

    There are plenty of places to peruse those images online but BikeRadar.com is not going to be one of them anymore, sorry.

    Please stop trying to reignite the thread, I will delete it and going forward will just issue a permanent ban for those posting the images.

    To confirm why it's removed see forum rule 19 here: If the actions and posts of any member are causing the use of the forum to be unpleasant for others, the moderators can take action regardless of whether or not that user's posts are in contravention of the above rules.

    Or term 16b here from Immediate Media's T&C's: (b) nothing in the user Contribution is defamatory, obscene, indecent, pornographic, sexually explicit, harassing, threatening or offensive, incites racial, cultural or religious hatred, impersonates or appears to impersonate any other person, is in contempt of court, violates any law or regulation or encourages conduct that would amount to a criminal offence (including without limitation any conduct that would be considered an offence under the Terrorism Act 2006) or give rise to a civil liability and/or is otherwise objectionable and/or an infringement of any UK or other applicable law or regulation;

    Unfortunately this decision isn't open to discussion and I apologise for any inconvenience caused.
    Josh, final decision noted. Disappointing but not surprising for quite a few people on here.

    As I see it rule 19 is very subjective and could be used to take action on almost anything if someone really wants to. All anyone has to do is claim that they or others think something is making the forum 'unpleasant' for them or someone else. Which these days, sometimes doesn't need much at all. The danger is that this will become a blander place if nobody will dare say 'boo to a goose' any more.

    In the meantime, if falling site traffic becomes a problem then I'm sure that some of the regular forum contributors would be happy to make some suggestions to the editor on how to make the place more interesting and fun. So don't bin those disappeared threads quite yet :wink:
    Whippet
    Bruiser
    Panzer
    Commuter

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • robertpbrobertpb Posts: 1,866
    As for falling site traffic, MTB buying advice, a few years ago the oldest post on the first page was only sometimes 24 hours old a few times on the second page.

    The oldest on that same page today is 21 days old, that says it all.
    Now where's that "Get Out of Crash Free Card"
  • boobies
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,150
    It would be far better to have a modicum of moderation.
    Then offending posts can be deleted, 'repeat offenders' given a slap on the wrist or a short ban stick rather than deleting whole threads in a part of the forum where the rules clearly state that most (if not all) of what was in there is acceptable.
    Bottom Bracket was created as an adults only area where it says clearly in the rules not to post or enter if you are likely to be offended.

    There was always a long running disparity between The Crudcatcher and BB in terms of content but it far easier to be insulting and rude in CC than in BB.
    Now, that sets a standard to which one is laissez faire and the other, easily broken.

    I have no qualms with CC being the way it is. I've had my fair share of stick from those guys but never once complained. It was my choice to enter there and it was my choice to post. I cannot complain about entering a section of the forum where I am warned about it and complain if i'm insulted or offended.

    Please look at the following where i've highlighted certain points:

    Bottom Bracket rules

    The Admin team recognise the need for off topic sections in our forums, however the content displayed in them has met objections from some parties. On the other hand, there's clearly a large number of people who don't find the content objectionable, or disagree with the objections put forward.

    To that end we're creating a new off-topic area within the Road section (Bottom Bracket) that differentiates itself from the one that exists (Cake Stop). This was previously done successfully in the MTB section.

    The Bottom Bracket may include more adult material but may need to be logged in to view it (this is still under discussion). Do not enter such areas if you are liable to be offended. This does not mean there will be no rules - if you see any posts that do not comply with the rules please report them and a member of the team will act on it.

    Pictures of a sexual nature, nudity, erotica or suggestive imagery or animations are now banned from the Cake Stop, Commuting Chat and The Hub section. One such thread per the Crudcatcher and the Bottom Bracket shall be permitted, again with strict warnings regarding content. Existing threads will be locked or merged.

    Rules regarding these images are as follows:

    - Images of nipples, uncovered breasts (the majority of the chest should be covered), genitalia, or the censored region are strictly prohibited.

    - Images mimicking sexual acts, masturbation or any other form that could be considered overtly sexual are prohibited.

    - If in doubt DO NOT post such images, or links to them. We reserve the right to remove any content we find breaks these rules and issue warnings and bans to users.

    Full forum rules will be displayed prominently in all areas of the forum, an guidelines for off topic forums in the correct areas respectively.

    If the Commuting area calls for an area akin to the Crudcatcher or Bottom Bracket, it shall be discussed.

    In addition:

    However the CrudCatcher and Bottom Bracket are areas where some of the rules are more relaxed so members can engage in, if they so wish, a more risque level of banter and discussion. Certain rules MUST still be followed:

    - Swearing and racism will NOT be tolerated and could result in an instant ban

    - Do not post pictures of members without their prior permission

    - Do not start threads with the sole basis of defamation

    - We reserve the right to edit, lock or delete any thread that we feel has been taken too far

    - Do not use the Crud Catcher or Bottom Bracket to comment on the other off topic forum, posts within it, or contributors.

    Members should note that if they use the Crud Catcher or Bottom Bracket, then they risk reading more adult themed chat, and should be aware of this if minors are using the forum. They also risk a level of flaming and posting designed to provoke a reaction. If you don't want this, then don't post.

    Members wishing to pursue off topic chat in line with the main rules should use The Hub or Cake Stop section of this forum.

    In essence the Bottom Bracket is the old Cake Stop, with a name change. Rather than set the BB up then go through 420 posts removing all the ones that failed the rules into the CS, it is a lot simpler to change them name and set up a new CS in the manner it was originally intended with stricter rules. This ensures all posts conform to the rules. So all that has happened is that new off topic area has been created for people who don't want to be met with crass posts, trolling, flaming, and for those who want a discussion with constructive answers and/or friendly conversation without the risk of been shot down.


    I don't quite know what rules in the above has been contravened.
    I don't know why certain protagonists who over stepped the mark weren't warned or reprimanded rather than whole threads being deleted. You are more than aware of the regulars who rarely over step the mark and you know of them well enough to send them a PM if it requires.

    As far as site traffic is concerned, pop up ads make this forum hell sometimes and spam invades the site and it takes seemingly ages to deal with. This goes back to moderation. I do not know why and I do not know how 1 person is expected to moderate this forum given the size of it. Perhaps you should present this (also our) concern to your employers.

    BR used to be an all inclusive website like no other. If it ends up bland because of a much stricter remit, this will not re-generate site traffic.
    If the site was bigger/growing, then the off topic areas would be insignificantly small.

    I hope that you take the time to read this and I am sure there are (myself included) a large number of individuals who would be more than happy to assist in the development and long term future of this site.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • pinno wrote:
    It would be far better to have a modicum of moderation.
    Then offending posts can be deleted, 'repeat offenders' given a slap on the wrist or a short ban stick rather than deleting whole threads in a part of the forum where the rules clearly state that most (if not all) of what was in there is acceptable.
    Bottom Bracket was created as an adults only area where it says clearly in the rules not to post or enter if you are likely to be offended.

    There was always a long running disparity between The Crudcatcher and BB in terms of content but it far easier to be insulting and rude in CC than in BB.
    Now, that sets a standard to which one is laissez faire and the other, easily broken.

    I have no qualms with CC being the way it is. I've had my fair share of stick from those guys but never once complained. It was my choice to enter there and it was my choice to post. I cannot complain about entering a section of the forum where I am warned about it and complain if i'm insulted or offended.

    Please look at the following where i've highlighted certain points:

    Bottom Bracket rules

    The Admin team recognise the need for off topic sections in our forums, however the content displayed in them has met objections from some parties. On the other hand, there's clearly a large number of people who don't find the content objectionable, or disagree with the objections put forward.

    To that end we're creating a new off-topic area within the Road section (Bottom Bracket) that differentiates itself from the one that exists (Cake Stop). This was previously done successfully in the MTB section.

    The Bottom Bracket may include more adult material but may need to be logged in to view it (this is still under discussion). Do not enter such areas if you are liable to be offended. This does not mean there will be no rules - if you see any posts that do not comply with the rules please report them and a member of the team will act on it.

    Pictures of a sexual nature, nudity, erotica or suggestive imagery or animations are now banned from the Cake Stop, Commuting Chat and The Hub section. One such thread per the Crudcatcher and the Bottom Bracket shall be permitted, again with strict warnings regarding content. Existing threads will be locked or merged.

    Rules regarding these images are as follows:

    - Images of nipples, uncovered breasts (the majority of the chest should be covered), genitalia, or the censored region are strictly prohibited.

    - Images mimicking sexual acts, masturbation or any other form that could be considered overtly sexual are prohibited.

    - If in doubt DO NOT post such images, or links to them. We reserve the right to remove any content we find breaks these rules and issue warnings and bans to users.

    Full forum rules will be displayed prominently in all areas of the forum, an guidelines for off topic forums in the correct areas respectively.

    If the Commuting area calls for an area akin to the Crudcatcher or Bottom Bracket, it shall be discussed.

    In addition:

    However the CrudCatcher and Bottom Bracket are areas where some of the rules are more relaxed so members can engage in, if they so wish, a more risque level of banter and discussion. Certain rules MUST still be followed:

    - Swearing and racism will NOT be tolerated and could result in an instant ban

    - Do not post pictures of members without their prior permission

    - Do not start threads with the sole basis of defamation

    - We reserve the right to edit, lock or delete any thread that we feel has been taken too far

    - Do not use the Crud Catcher or Bottom Bracket to comment on the other off topic forum, posts within it, or contributors.

    Members should note that if they use the Crud Catcher or Bottom Bracket, then they risk reading more adult themed chat, and should be aware of this if minors are using the forum. They also risk a level of flaming and posting designed to provoke a reaction. If you don't want this, then don't post.

    Members wishing to pursue off topic chat in line with the main rules should use The Hub or Cake Stop section of this forum.

    In essence the Bottom Bracket is the old Cake Stop, with a name change. Rather than set the BB up then go through 420 posts removing all the ones that failed the rules into the CS, it is a lot simpler to change them name and set up a new CS in the manner it was originally intended with stricter rules. This ensures all posts conform to the rules. So all that has happened is that new off topic area has been created for people who don't want to be met with crass posts, trolling, flaming, and for those who want a discussion with constructive answers and/or friendly conversation without the risk of been shot down.


    I don't quite know what rules in the above has been contravened.
    I don't know why certain protagonists who over stepped the mark weren't warned or reprimanded rather than whole threads being deleted. You are more than aware of the regulars who rarely over step the mark and you know of them well enough to send them a PM if it requires.

    As far as site traffic is concerned, pop up ads make this forum hell sometimes and spam invades the site and it takes seemingly ages to deal with. This goes back to moderation. I do not know why and I do not know how 1 person is expected to moderate this forum given the size of it. Perhaps you should present this (also our) concern to your employers.

    BR used to be an all inclusive website like no other. If it ends up bland because of a much stricter remit, this will not re-generate site traffic.
    If the site was bigger/growing, then the off topic areas would be insignificantly small.

    I hope that you take the time to read this and I am sure there are (myself included) a large number of individuals who would be more than happy to assist in the development and long term future of this site.

    the rules sstate "masrebation" "genitalia" and censored REGION" CAN WE GET CLARIFIACTION AS HOW THE "RULES" CAN SPEAK OF SUCH THINGS BUT POSTERS CANT? Caps lock on duer to visitunbgf thr SU bsar ....
  • apreadingapreading Posts: 4,532
    There doesnt seem much point debating it with the forum owners. Doesnt matter what the stated rules say, the overriding rule is that its their forum and its up to them what they do on it. If they chose to change the rules, whether we agree with the reasoning or not, that is their prerogative.

    Rightly or wrongly, everywhere is gradually getting sanitised, even on the internet.

    Time to move on and work out how to access the dark web, I guess...
  • Stevo 666 wrote:

    In the meantime, if falling site traffic becomes a problem then I'm sure that some of the regular forum contributors would be happy to make some suggestions to the editor on how to make the place more interesting and fun. So don't bin those disappeared threads quite yet :wink:

    I can think of a number of reasons why people use cycling forums (fora?) less, not just this one.
    Firstly, it could well be that the number of people embracing cycling is falling, hence new recruits don't make up for the loss of older members.
    Then, I have the impression that people are tired of discussions and arguments, often dominated by a small number of 'bullies'... it seems that sites that focus on 'positivity" are trending and those that allow discussion are dipping.

    As for the specific... I vaguely remember discussions to get rid of all that censored five years ago, when I was a moderator
  • cooldadcooldad Posts: 32,601
    Fora/ums in general are dying. I'm on quite a few, and without exception, membership and number of posts is dropping on all of them.

    Seems like people have moved to Snapchats, Twitters etc. I haven't bothered.

    I do still remember the golden days of Usenet and IRC. I am old.
    I don't do smileys.

    There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

    London Calling on Facebook

    Parktools
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 43,937
    Stevo 666 wrote:

    In the meantime, if falling site traffic becomes a problem then I'm sure that some of the regular forum contributors would be happy to make some suggestions to the editor on how to make the place more interesting and fun. So don't bin those disappeared threads quite yet :wink:

    I can think of a number of reasons why people use cycling forums (fora?) less, not just this one.
    Firstly, it could well be that the number of people embracing cycling is falling, hence new recruits don't make up for the loss of older members.
    Then, I have the impression that people are tired of discussions and arguments, often dominated by a small number of 'bullies'... it seems that sites that focus on 'positivity" are trending and those that allow discussion are dipping.

    As for the specific... I vaguely remember discussions to get rid of all that censored five years ago, when I was a moderator
    I remember it also.

    A small number of individuals from Commuting Chat who thought that they knew better than everyone else tried to impose their views on the rest of us, rather than just minding their own business. And failed. There must have been a good reason to keep the threads then because we did.
    Whippet
    Bruiser
    Panzer
    Commuter

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Pinno and Stevo666 thanks for your messages and I understand your disappointment but the decision has been made that this is no longer the site to host those sort of images going forward. I have amended the BB rules so they reflect the rest of the forum.

    Yes, this may harm traffic but that isn't the reason we deleted the threads.

    There are a number of reasons many forums are declining and the most prominent reason has been the rise of social media platforms. This forum remains, in a large part down to you core users, a vast catalogue of cycling related knowledge that continues to (generally) have cycling tech/training etc questions answered by some of the most knowledgable amateurs and professionals in the industry.

    What it doesn't need is images that a large section of our audience and our entire staff find offensive. It also doesn't need a thread pointing people to arguments (kicking off), which often ends in further baiting or trolling of new, and potentially long-term core users, being put off for a few minutes of entertainment by other users.

    Again, I understand your disappointment but the decision(s) has/have been made. In the coming year or so (hopefully less) we'll be able to offer some updates to the forum and I plan on reaching out to the regulars to work together in shaping the forum going forward for those that would like to be involved (no, you can't have the big girls thread back!).

    Have a good week and speak soon.
    BikeRadar Communities Manager
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