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sealant not sealing

chatlowchatlow Posts: 825
edited November 2018 in Workshop
First (known) rear puncture my gavia tubeless tyre's had in a year. lost quite a bit of sealant so added more and although it took 3 attempts for it to appear sealed, it hasn't fully. Went out for 40 mile ride and lot a very small amount of air pressure so looked good, but having left it stood still for 24 hours (with the puncture at the bottom, some sealant has leaked from it and it's lost half the air :-(

The puncture isn't big - would it be best to try using a patch on the inside of the tyre and is this possible without removing the tyre and losing sealant again?

Thanks,
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  • chatlow wrote:
    First (known) rear puncture my gavia tubeless tyres in a year. lot quite a bit of sealant so added more and although it took 3 attempts for it to appear sealed, it hasn't fully. Went out for 40 mile ride and lot a very small amount of air pressure, but having left it stood still for 24 hours, some sealant has leaked from the puncture and it's lost half the air :-(

    The puncture isn't big - would it be best to try using a patch on the inside of the tyre and is this possible without removing the tyre and losing sealant again?

    Thanks,

    Yes, the best option is to attempt to patch ( or worm) the puncture. The tyre will have to come off to apply the patch, and you’ll have to remove the tyre and clean all of the gunk from the surface you wish to patch. The joys of tubeless eh? At least it didn’t leave you trying to do this in the dark, in the cold, at the roadside though. Be thankful for small mercys.
  • orlokorlok Posts: 87
    chatlow wrote:
    First (known) rear puncture my gavia tubeless tyre's had in a year. lost quite a bit of sealant so added more and although it took 3 attempts for it to appear sealed, it hasn't fully. Went out for 40 mile ride and lot a very small amount of air pressure so looked good, but having left it stood still for 24 hours (with the puncture at the bottom, some sealant has leaked from it and it's lost half the air :-(

    The puncture isn't big - would it be best to try using a patch on the inside of the tyre and is this possible without removing the tyre and losing sealant again?

    Thanks,
    If you don't want removing the tire and losing the sealant you can use a worm to repair the tire. Other wise you must do it like @killerclown said.! :wink:
    There will be always a moment of tailwind.
    Pinarello F8/10 - Ultegra 6800 - Carbonspeed C38 UST - Tubeless
  • chatlowchatlow Posts: 825
    ah wow, didn't know about those kits - will try a worm later then! to be honest, I'm so impressed with tubeless - even this one (being a good size) got me home in one piece :-)

    Just followed a video on how to use them. Assume you should really use a full worm and not cut them say in half? Also when it's in, is it best to trim the bits sticking out or just ride and let them flatten against your tyre?

    Thanks again
  • orlokorlok Posts: 87
    chatlow wrote:
    ah wow, didn't know about those kits - will try a worm later then! to be honest, I'm so impressed with tubeless - even this one (being a good size) got me home in one piece :-)

    Just followed a video on how to use them. Assume you should really use a full worm and not cut them say in half? Also when it's in, is it best to trim the bits sticking out or just ride and let them flatten against your tyre?

    Thanks again
    To be honnest with you I never used a worm repair (on the road) and always used a patch to repair the tires at home. :?
    There will be always a moment of tailwind.
    Pinarello F8/10 - Ultegra 6800 - Carbonspeed C38 UST - Tubeless
  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 9,714
    Try cycleclinics tech page for advice. Tyre worms are the way forward.
    https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/pages/tech-page
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • The same issue occurred on my tubeless tyres. Advice from retailer was to check that there was sufficient sealant was in the tyre and to try super glue on the external surface to close the cut
  • Orlok wrote:
    To be honnest with you I never used a worm repair (on the road) and always used a patch to repair the tires at home. :?
    Roadside repairs if a gash in the tyre is too big for sealant to cope with are much easier and quicker with worms. And it's usually just a couple of minutes job, as there's no wheel or tyre removal needed - just insert the worm, inflate slightly, spin the wheel, inflate fully. I have one rear tyre that I haven't touched since I did a roadside patch with a worm, and it's still holding up fine a couple of thousand km later.
  • chatlowchatlow Posts: 825
    thanks all - these sound v reassuring indeed. grabbing some after work and will try. A vid suggested trimming off the excess tht sticks out of tyre before cycling so will do that. If this doesn't hold then I will get a patch.
  • Yes trim the worm once its in and you have a seal, you get a little blade inside some of the worm kits for this.
    Paracyclist
    @Bigmitch_racing
    2010 Specialized Tricross (commuter)
    2014 Whyte T129-S
    2016 Specialized Tarmac Ultegra Di2
    Big Mitch - YouTube
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    carry a pair of sharp nail sisscors for cutting plugs than that blade in the weldite kit. Also not all plug kits have the same worms. there are differences in how sticky they are.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • chatlowchatlow Posts: 825
    they sound like a perfect road side quick fix. Unfortunately for my puncture, it hasn't held, so I will need to remove the tyre and see if it can be patched or possibly replace it. It's a Giant Gavia SLR from my Propel - not the easiest or cheapest to buy either!
  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 9,714
    I had the gavia,s on my defy and managed with worms although I have patched internally using a patch when doing sealant change. Would recommend IRC formula tyres as replacement for the Gavias when you need to replace. Yes their expensive but quality always is.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • bobonesbobones Posts: 1,098
    chatlow wrote:
    they sound like a perfect road side quick fix. Unfortunately for my puncture, it hasn't held, so I will need to remove the tyre and see if it can be patched or possibly replace it. It's a Giant Gavia SLR from my Propel - not the easiest or cheapest to buy either!
    I could never get worms to stay in either so I've now switched to Dynaplugs. I haven't had an opportunity to test them out yet as my last non-sealing puncture was about 9000 miles ago, such are the joys of tubeless!
  • chatlowchatlow Posts: 825
    Going to buy patches and sealant this weekend and give a fix one more go. I may find, once the tyre is off, that there was still something inside the puncture. Expecting a messy job anyway!

    As for replacement tyres - no where really selling the SLR i have, so either a cheaper version or I will check the IRC tyres if not too expensive

    Also - sorry I don't want this to become a sealant debate, but I am going for either orange, stans or slime as all in shop near me. Assume all okay, but let me know if not :-)

    thanks
  • bobonesbobones Posts: 1,098
    Orange Seal has not let me down and is highly regarded by many for the high pressures of road tyres.

    Patching is not necessarily that messy: either syringe or pour any excess sealant into a container for reuse and clean and dry just the area to be patched.

    I'd recommend Hutchinson Fusion 5 All Seasons 11Storm Tubeless Ready from Merlin for £35 as a good winter tyre. The "Performance" version is also very good, as is the Maxxis Padrone, which is also available for less than £40.
  • chatlowchatlow Posts: 825
    thanks - last thing on this - is the general rule that if you remove the tyre from wheel then best to replace the rim tape? Or is this only needed if it's old/broken in places?
  • orlokorlok Posts: 87
    chatlow wrote:
    thanks - last thing on this - is the general rule that if you remove the tyre from wheel then best to replace the rim tape? Or is this only needed if it's old/broken in places?
    Only needed if it's old/broken.! :wink:
    There will be always a moment of tailwind.
    Pinarello F8/10 - Ultegra 6800 - Carbonspeed C38 UST - Tubeless
  • bobonesbobones Posts: 1,098
    chatlow wrote:
    thanks - last thing on this - is the general rule that if you remove the tyre from wheel then best to replace the rim tape? Or is this only needed if it's old/broken in places?
    No, it shouldn't be necessary to completely replace unless you notice obvious damage or if it leaks air through the spoke or valve holes once inflated (use soapy water in a spray gun to detect this). Sometimes a tyre is a looser fit on the rim and it won't inflate as easily as it did. In these cases I whack a round of duct tape on top of the original tape to get a tighter fit on the rim.
  • chatlowchatlow Posts: 825
    thanks all - really appreciate the advice! I will buy a pack of scabs and see if they help with the hole before adding more sealant later on.

    If it still fails, then new tyre time!
  • chatlowchatlow Posts: 825
    could only get my hands on slime sealant today. Is it worth waiting until Monday and going for Orange or is Slime good enough for road tubeless (seems to be more MTB)?
  • chatlowchatlow Posts: 825
    so getting the tyre off was surprisingly easy, once I broke the seal around the edges. I have patched the hole and refitting was easy enough but as the tyre isn't sealed to the edges now, it won't take any air at all.

    Is there a suggested method? GCN videos say the harder it is the fit, the easier it will take air.. so I'm a little worried..
  • shortfallshortfall Posts: 3,287
    chatlow wrote:
    so getting the tyre off was surprisingly easy, once I broke the seal around the edges. I have patched the hole and refitting was easy enough but as the tyre isn't sealed to the edges now, it won't take any air at all.

    Is there a suggested method? GCN videos say the harder it is the fit, the easier it will take air.. so I'm a little worried..

    The moral of the story seems to be that once you fit tubeless you leave it until it's worn out. Worms are designed to avoid the need for removal and patching. Recently I had a new tubeless that went on very easily and wouldn't seal. You could try an airshot if you have one but they're about 50 quid to buy. I got round it by fitting the tyre with a tube inside and inflating until the beads popped on. Then I carefully took off one side, removed the tube, and reinflated with a co2 cartridge. Once the second bead popped on again I purged the co2, added sealant through the valve and pumped up with my track pump. A massive pain in the @rse I know but it only takes a few minutes in reality and is cheaper than buying a new tyre.
  • bobonesbobones Posts: 1,098
    Put a round of Duck or Gorilla tape on top of your existing tape. These are cheap and easy to tear to the width required and should make the tyre fit a lot tighter.
  • chatlowchatlow Posts: 825
    The issue seems to be the sides of the tyre not going against the wall at all, so air simply leaks out. The tape looks in great condition. Inner tube trick might be worth a go later. Was going to try blasting air with pump at garage but my tyre is presta not shrader so need an adaptor. Will have to dig
  • shortfallshortfall Posts: 3,287
    chatlow wrote:
    The issue seems to be the sides of the tyre not going against the wall at all, so air simply leaks out. The tape looks in great condition. Inner tube trick might be worth a go later. Was going to try blasting air with pump at garage but my tyre is presta not shrader so need an adaptor. Will have to dig

    I tried the adapter for the tyre compressor but it still couldn't get the volume of air in quick enough to seat the tyre. Co2 worked 1st time but I added the sealant after I'd purged the co2 as apparently it goes off quickly if you put sealant in first.
  • tonysjtonysj Posts: 361
    I had to remove my 2 tubeless tyre, schwalbe pro one, after i broke a spoke and had to replace the rim tape. It wouldn't deal with a track pump as air was coming from around the beads. I had to push 1 ride into the rim and use soapy water around both sides. After a lot of pumping it managed to read ok. Hard work though but guess I was lucky as the rims and tyres were a good combo. I have had to use co2 before to get them seated. I wouldn't use slime and would go with other sealants. I use Caffe latex and it's very good stuff...
  • g00seg00se Posts: 2,221
    I had a similar issue. It was down to the rim tape being compressed after it was first fitted.

    When it was set up, the the tape was thick enough to 'catch' the tyre when pumping it up. After a few months, the tyre beads have compressed it so that the rim bed diameter is effectively a little smaller - just enough to let the air escape rather than push the tyre into place.

    Add another layer or two over the existing tape - or use a more powerful source of air - compressor or something like this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxRbEcxsC5M
  • g00seg00se Posts: 2,221
    In that video, the Schwalbe is a rebadged Airshot, which you can get cheaper.
  • orlokorlok Posts: 87
    g00se wrote:
    In that video, the Schwalbe is a rebadged Airshot, which you can get cheaper.
    Yeah, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa4gP5wGN4w :wink:
    There will be always a moment of tailwind.
    Pinarello F8/10 - Ultegra 6800 - Carbonspeed C38 UST - Tubeless
  • zefszefs Posts: 484
    Orlok wrote:
    g00se wrote:
    In that video, the Schwalbe is a rebadged Airshot, which you can get cheaper.
    Yeah, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa4gP5wGN4w :wink:

    Great way to damage your ears when the plastic bottle explodes after using it a few times...
    Lifeline Airblast track pump costs 45€ or so on Wiggle.
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