Perhaps the most stupid safety idea Ever ?

veronese68

oxoman wrote:

... it's another school trying to control little Johnny,s actions because their parents can't or won't.

this, because of this

PBlakeney wrote:

That’s the schools job. Innit.
#themindsetofsomeparents

It's always been the case that some parents seem to want to absolve themselves of responsibility for their kids, I wonder if it happens more now or I'm just getting more intolerant so I notice it more.

thegreatdivide

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Riding like an idiot is a "thing" with some kids now - the secondary local to me has a little group of wannabe gangsters on mountain bikes who on their daily commute home do put themselves and others at some risk with the way they ride especially when they get to the pedestrian zone on the city centre.

The forum frothers don't care though. Civil liberty is at stake.

cooldad

thegreatdivide wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Riding like an idiot is a "thing" with some kids now - the secondary local to me has a little group of wannabe gangsters on mountain bikes who on their daily commute home do put themselves and others at some risk with the way they ride especially when they get to the pedestrian zone on the city centre.

The forum frothers don't care though. Civil liberty is at stake.

So you think they're the kids who would keep number plates on their bikes?

pblakeney

thegreatdivide wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Riding like an idiot is a "thing" with some kids now - the secondary local to me has a little group of wannabe gangsters on mountain bikes who on their daily commute home do put themselves and others at some risk with the way they ride especially when they get to the pedestrian zone on the city centre.

The forum frothers don't care though. Civil liberty is at stake.

I’d “let” their handlebars hit my arm.
Action and consequences. “It was an accident officer, he hit me. “

kingstongraham

cooldad wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Riding like an idiot is a "thing" with some kids now - the secondary local to me has a little group of wannabe gangsters on mountain bikes who on their daily commute home do put themselves and others at some risk with the way they ride especially when they get to the pedestrian zone on the city centre.

The forum frothers don't care though. Civil liberty is at stake.

So you think they're the kids who would keep number plates on their bikes?

Well they sound like good citizens, so why not?

craigus89

oxoman wrote:

I personally blame Tony Blair and the don't smack rules introduced years ago.A lot of kids ever since then don't respect anyone of authority including their parents. Can't blame social deprivation as most of the scroats around me come from more affluent families

Yes all Tony Blair's fault. Nothing to do with the generation of parents that are raising the scroats.

greenamex2

PBlakeney wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Riding like an idiot is a "thing" with some kids now - the secondary local to me has a little group of wannabe gangsters on mountain bikes who on their daily commute home do put themselves and others at some risk with the way they ride especially when they get to the pedestrian zone on the city centre.

The forum frothers don't care though. Civil liberty is at stake.

I’d “let” their handlebars hit my arm.
Action and consequences. “It was an accident officer, he hit me. “

Got a lot of these on my route going through the less pleasant areas. Their bike control and balance is quite incredible. Fortunately when they try to race me they usually have to give after a 200m or so because they all smoke too much. Quite funny pointing out to them they have just been dropped by someone old enough to be their great grandfather!

With any luck the really stupid ones will get killed off quite quickly without taking anybody with them and the less stupid ones will break a limb or two, realise being a dick hurts and they WON'T get millions in compensation and will go on to become a valuable member of the community serving me in McDonalds.

Of course you COULD put number plates on their bikes. That way you can report them to the police who will do nothing about it, like all the cars that do illegal things and are constantly get away with it.

cooldad

Craigus89 wrote:

oxoman wrote:

I personally blame Tony Blair and the don't smack rules introduced years ago.A lot of kids ever since then don't respect anyone of authority including their parents. Can't blame social deprivation as most of the scroats around me come from more affluent families

Yes all Tony Blair's fault. Nothing to do with the generation of parents that are raising the scroats.

Yeah right, because adding violence is always is a great way of gaining respect.

I managed to grow up reasonably civilised without any parental beatings, and have managed to raise a decent, well educated son in the same way.

It's called setting a good example.

slowbike

cooldad wrote:

Craigus89 wrote:

oxoman wrote:

I personally blame Tony Blair and the don't smack rules introduced years ago.A lot of kids ever since then don't respect anyone of authority including their parents. Can't blame social deprivation as most of the scroats around me come from more affluent families

Yes all Tony Blair's fault. Nothing to do with the generation of parents that are raising the scroats.

Yeah right, because adding violence is always is a great way of gaining respect.

I managed to grow up reasonably civilised without any parental beatings, and have managed to raise a decent, well educated son in the same way.

It's called setting a good example.

A lot of us have grown up when smacking was the norm - I can remember getting the ruler at school - the teacher concerned was very well respected and I (along with others) went on to do extra curricular activities with them and I even went to their memorial service a few years ago.
It wasn't the "beating" that earnt respect - it was the boundaries that were set and controlled - you knew where you stood at all times. Not all teachers were like that - one, in an adjacent classroom had absolutely no control - over the children or his temper - he had no respect because he just "lost it". He had children removed from his class (including me) because he couldn't cope with us.
Is smacking right? No, probably not - but it is certainly an effective threat/punishment when used correctly.

drlodge

A damn good beating never hurt anyone.

greenamex2

Slowbike wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Craigus89 wrote:

oxoman wrote:

I personally blame Tony Blair and the don't smack rules introduced years ago.A lot of kids ever since then don't respect anyone of authority including their parents. Can't blame social deprivation as most of the scroats around me come from more affluent families

Yes all Tony Blair's fault. Nothing to do with the generation of parents that are raising the scroats.

Yeah right, because adding violence is always is a great way of gaining respect.

I managed to grow up reasonably civilised without any parental beatings, and have managed to raise a decent, well educated son in the same way.

It's called setting a good example.

A lot of us have grown up when smacking was the norm - I can remember getting the ruler at school - the teacher concerned was very well respected and I (along with others) went on to do extra curricular activities with them and I even went to their memorial service a few years ago.
It wasn't the "beating" that earnt respect - it was the boundaries that were set and controlled - you knew where you stood at all times. Not all teachers were like that - one, in an adjacent classroom had absolutely no control - over the children or his temper - he had no respect because he just "lost it". He had children removed from his class (including me) because he couldn't cope with us.
Is smacking right? No, probably not - but it is certainly an effective threat/punishment when used correctly.

Rightly or wrongly most of these kids believe there are no longer any boundaries or consequences. And that idea is working up the age groups.

What is the consequence of them pulling wheelies in the middle of a shopping center. The worst they will get is somebody shouting at them, at which they will just shout back...if that person is lucky.

And then moving on...what is the consequence of the progressing to stealing a moped and going round in a gang stealing phones whilst armed with a knife. Probably nothing, the chance of them getting caught is slim to none.

cooldad

We still had caning when was at school. I held the school record. Mainly for getting caught smoking. But we were given an option. six of the best or detention. Most people chose the cane.

So possibly detention would have been the sensible option.

But I can't say I ever respected the bastard on the other end of the cane. They seemed to enjoy it too much.

Oddly enough, I was generally well behaved at home. Reasonable boundaries were set and discussed. My parents treated us like humans.

cooldad

greenamex2 wrote:

Rightly or wrongly most of these kids believe there are no longer any boundaries or consequences. And that idea is working up the age groups.

What is the consequence of them pulling wheelies in the middle of a shopping center. The worst they will get is somebody shouting at them, at which they will just shout back...if that person is lucky.

And then moving on...what is the consequence of the progressing to stealing a moped and going round in a gang stealing phones whilst armed with a knife. Probably nothing, the chance of them getting caught is slim to none.

There's a bit of a difference between kids doing stupid things, which is what kids are best at, and progressing to a life of gangs and crime.

I would suggest that the parents bring up those kids badly, probably in the same way they were, with neglect and violence.

Neither of which solve anything.

kingrollo

greenamex2 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Craigus89 wrote:

oxoman wrote:

I personally blame Tony Blair and the don't smack rules introduced years ago.A lot of kids ever since then don't respect anyone of authority including their parents. Can't blame social deprivation as most of the scroats around me come from more affluent families

Yes all Tony Blair's fault. Nothing to do with the generation of parents that are raising the scroats.

Yeah right, because adding violence is always is a great way of gaining respect.

I managed to grow up reasonably civilised without any parental beatings, and have managed to raise a decent, well educated son in the same way.

It's called setting a good example.

A lot of us have grown up when smacking was the norm - I can remember getting the ruler at school - the teacher concerned was very well respected and I (along with others) went on to do extra curricular activities with them and I even went to their memorial service a few years ago.
It wasn't the "beating" that earnt respect - it was the boundaries that were set and controlled - you knew where you stood at all times. Not all teachers were like that - one, in an adjacent classroom had absolutely no control - over the children or his temper - he had no respect because he just "lost it". He had children removed from his class (including me) because he couldn't cope with us.
Is smacking right? No, probably not - but it is certainly an effective threat/punishment when used correctly.

Rightly or wrongly most of these kids believe there are no longer any boundaries or consequences. And that idea is working up the age groups.

What is the consequence of them pulling wheelies in the middle of a shopping center. The worst they will get is somebody shouting at them, at which they will just shout back...if that person is lucky.

And then moving on...what is the consequence of the progressing to stealing a moped and going round in a gang stealing phones whilst armed with a knife. Probably nothing, the chance of them getting caught is slim to none.

From pulling wheelies to armed knife robbery - thats one hell of a leap TBH.

greenamex2

cooldad wrote:

greenamex2 wrote:

Rightly or wrongly most of these kids believe there are no longer any boundaries or consequences. And that idea is working up the age groups.

What is the consequence of them pulling wheelies in the middle of a shopping center. The worst they will get is somebody shouting at them, at which they will just shout back...if that person is lucky.

And then moving on...what is the consequence of the progressing to stealing a moped and going round in a gang stealing phones whilst armed with a knife. Probably nothing, the chance of them getting caught is slim to none.

There's a bit of a difference between kids doing stupid things, which is what kids are best at, and progressing to a life of gangs and crime.

I would suggest that the parents bring up those kids badly, probably in the same way they were, with neglect and violence.

Neither of which solve anything.

Try talking to these kids. They don't see the difference.

shirley_basso

How did they get to that position though?

Everyone is born ignorant .

slowbike

cooldad wrote:

But I can't say I ever respected the bastard on the other end of the cane. They seemed to enjoy it too much.

Well - I wish I could go back and ask my teacher what she thought of the ruler (it was normally 1 hit - yes, I suffered a few times - not too many though) as she managed to be a feared teacher - but only if you stepped out of line - if you were well behaved, you got treated well ... This was junior school - so no smoking to get caught doing!

We didn't have physical punishment at secondary school - don't know if it was being phased out or just not a done thing - there were teachers we respected and those we didn't. When mis-behaving we were either trying not to get caught - or seeing how far we could push the teacher concerned.
I can't say exactly why we didn't respect some teachers - probably the subjects that we had less interest in suffered more - and those teachers who tried to set strict rules with no reason didn't do well either. The "good" teachers weren't over strict or over friendly - somehow they managed to strike the balance.
Talking to a teacher at the same school now - being short - she gets "protection" from the older boys in the school which is quite amusing - probably indicates that there is no one right answer to being a good teacher - seems easy to be a bad one though.

greenamex2

Shirley Basso wrote:

How did they get to that position though?

Everyone is born ignorant .

That is a good question. And has at least a dozen different answers.

At least it is part due to kids today being better (if not correctly!) informed.

When I was a kid I knew if I did something bad and I caught something "bad" would happen to me and I was worried about that.
Kids today...and I totally respect them for it...are now informed enough to realise that almost nothing will happen to them.

And boy do they exploit it!

The question is whether this then continues on from "misbehaving" through to something more serious. Of course a lot of them will go on to be law abiding members of society.
A very small subsection will just progress with same attitude and, perhaps fuelled by social circumstance, degenerate further. They may have done that anyway with old fashioned parenting but I suspect that the likelihood is greater nowadays.
And a large number will go on to have kids and consider this behaviour satisfactory. And then their kids will push the boundaries even further and then their kids will push even further.

It is the last group that scares the hell out of me!

Or of course we are just getting selective memory with old age and nothing has ever really changed.

slowbike

It's certainly interesting seeing two siblings of similar age growing up - one is (outwardly) very good and respectful, the other has meltdowns and tantrums when s/he doesn't get what they want.

I have my theories on why they are so different - mostly it is down to setting appropriate boundaries and sticking to them - both parents .. but it's just a theory and it's possibly only applicable to this set of siblings....

Other "scare stories" I hear (talking to friends who have family members with kids similar age to Mr Slowbike Jnr) - parents who let the child do what they want - for an "easy life" - parents who just sleep or laze about all day - or even parents who pass their prejudice against the less well off to their kids (I've heard of bullying by children picking on kids whose parents don't have the latest 4x4).
Basically - just parents who don't take an active positive role in bringing up their children. I know it's hard work and I/we have it easy compared to some - but if you're not prepared to put in the work, then perhaps you shouldn't have kids... problem is - you don't realise just how much work it is until you start - then there's no turning back...

cooldad

I was lucky I guess, we both enjoy technology, so started faffing with computers.

Got into mountain biking, so spent a lot of time together. He long ago surpassed both my skill levels and bravery.
I introduced him to cross country and middle distance running. Again it wasn't long before he totally outpaced me, so he started running backwards, taunting me.

Although he now works in the midlands, we message most days, and talk often. He lets me know what's happening, asks for advice.

Sort of more like friends, than parent/child, have been since he learnt to talk.

Worked for me, might have been a bit of work, but it was a hell of a lot of fun.

mouth

Slowbike wrote:

It's certainly interesting seeing two siblings of similar age growing up - one is (outwardly) very good and respectful, the other has meltdowns and tantrums when s/he doesn't get what they want.

Some kids are just born 'bad' though. Example: I worked as support staff in a local secondary a few years back, and at one point we were responsible for education of a kid who was on remand. His Dad was a successful head teacher (in a different jurisdiction), his Mum also a teacher of note nearby, older brother studying medicine, older sister studying law/bar. He was locked up for attempted murder, eventually plead down to ABH with intent, and not his first foray with the cells either. No one knows what went wrong, or where it went but he was literally a bad apple. His Mum had effectively given up work just to try and support him. Oddly, he was as bright as any peer in his year group, but just went nuts once he left the school.

Back to the original point. I see kids doing all this daft stuff on their Carrera (thank Halfords for that I'd expect) - its nothing I did as a wayward youth but not in front of a lorry or bus or car or crowded high street. Stuff definitely changed there. They very rarely seem to be in school clothes, or indeed anything near school kicking out times. Number plate policy will have very little effect, as they'd just remove it anyway if they wanted.

Secondly, I go out to the shed in the morning and my Kraken has a flat tyre, but I can't use my Mum's Pendleton because it isn't registered for the school, so must walk. Will I still be given a late mark/unauthorised absence?

slowbike

cooldad wrote:

I was lucky I guess, we both enjoy technology, so started faffing with computers.

Got into mountain biking, so spent a lot of time together. He long ago surpassed both my skill levels and bravery.
I introduced him to cross country and middle distance running. Again it wasn't long before he totally outpaced me, so he started running backwards, taunting me.

Although he now works in the midlands, we message most days, and talk often. He lets me know what's happening, asks for advice.

Sort of more like friends, than parent/child, have been since he learnt to talk.

Worked for me, might have been a bit of work, but it was a hell of a lot of fun.

Doesn't sound like luck - sounds like hard work and perseverance - it's all attention, which is what they crave - that and acceptance. I guess the worst thing for a child is to be ignored. We're still early days, but already he likes cycling and sailing -but even with those there needs to be rules & boundaries - assuming he still enjoys it I guess he'll surpass my cycling and sailing ability - the day I can first sit on his wheel on the way to/from the pub will be a very good day indeed - but that's a long way off yet it will come around too quickly.

To bring it back to subject - I don't mind if my boy wants to do wheelies - it takes good handling skills and balance to do that effectively and that will be good to see - however, he won't be doing it down the highstreet or pedestrian precinct - otherwise he'll find privileges taken away - but no school is going to prevent him from riding to/from school if that is OUR chosen method of transport.

slowbike

Mouth wrote:

Some kids are just born 'bad' though. Example: I worked as support staff in a local secondary a few years back, and at one point we were responsible for education of a kid who was on remand. His Dad was a successful head teacher (in a different jurisdiction), his Mum also a teacher of note nearby, older brother studying medicine, older sister studying law/bar.

Teacher Teacher & Youngest child ... probably vying for attention? (guessing) Pressure of successful older siblings meaning he's expected to achieve too?
There's always a reason for it - but I don't believe anyone is born "bad" - they learn their morals from their engagement in the world.

awavey

kingrollo wrote:

From pulling wheelies to armed knife robbery - thats one hell of a leap TBH.

Im not sure it is thesedays in some areas, a lot of the kids I see pulling wheelies and basically behaving like twats on bikes actually are involved in crime of somekind, be that drug couriering because the gangs know police tend to go more softly on kids found with drugs, or stealing more bikes, or going for handbags, phones, shoplifting etc etc, undoubtedly some of them do carry knives too.

whether thats the kind of area or trouble this school has I dont know, but theres alot less of kids just going through the phase of being kids now,IMO, but everywhere is different

pblakeney

awavey wrote:

...
whether thats the kind of area or trouble this school has I dont know, but theres alot less of kids just going through the phase of being kids now,IMO, but everywhere is different

There does seem to be a lot of children who appear to be going straight from toddlers to teenagers. And I think they’d like to skip that phase too. Shame.

StillGoing

I was in the top class at secondary school, but the syllabus didn't stimulate me. It was below my level. I got bored quickly and messed around playing truant or being disruptive. Got caned on the hands more times than I remember and after the initial fear the first time, realised it didn't actually hurt, so no deterrent. I left school at the first opportunity without qualifications and joined the Army. After 11 years there, I ended up in the Police retiring a few years ago. So not all little shits end up as criminals. Good parenting and keeping kids occupied is what matters. Let them get bored and they'll discover some other way of attracting attention.

First.Aspect

We used to DREAM of living in a coridoor.

Bumo_b

I use to run a centre for those at risk of offending, and one of the things that struck me is that a lot of the individuals had a feeling of entitlement, knew all their rights but none of their responsibilities. As far as my school went, caning had been banned but boy could the headmaster come up with some cruel and unusual punishments!

my_grandadʹs_bike

Reading this has just reminded me of the time four of my mates got a "croggy" home from school on the same bike which was ridden by one of my mates older brothers. So there was one of us sat on the handlebars, one on the crossbar (like women used to ride horses in a lady like manner), the older brother riding the bike stood up, one on the saddle and me stood on some oversize wheel nuts at the back holding onto the saddle. Must have been a couple of miles journey which was fortunately mainly downhill. Don't think you would have seen any number plates had they been fitted.

Oh happy days indeed

seajays

Kids have ever been thus.

The oft mis-attributed quote (which is actually from a dissertation by Freeman in 1907), nevertheless shows the types of complaints levelled against the young in ancient times.

"The counts of the indictment are luxury, bad manners, contempt for authority, disrespect to elders, and a love for chatter in place of exercise. …
Children began to be the tyrants, not the slaves, of their households. They no longer rose from their seats when an elder entered the room; they contradicted their parents, chattered before company, gobbled up the dainties at table, and committed various offences against Hellenic tastes, such as crossing their legs. They tyrannised over the paidagogoi and schoolmasters."

We all suffer from the rose tinted glasses looking back at the past, and either forget or never even saw the truth of what was happening at the time.

Basically it's all rampant hormones: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/scie ... 74856.html