Vuelta 2018, Stage 14: Cistierna > Les Praeres. Nava - 171 km *Spoilers*

blazing_saddles

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Carapaz attacked the GC group to win on Montvergine.

DeadCalm wrote:

This isn't in my 6 good stages. Nobody cared.

So, nobody cared about the guy who finished one place off the podium in Rome?
I would suggest that the rest were doing exactly what they are doing at this Vuelta: waiting for somebody else to make the first move.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The "strongest rider", Yates had only won up Gran Sasso and Sappada, at the same point in the race.

DeadCalm wrote:

You've forgotten Osimo. Possibly my favourite stage of that Giro.

I didn't forget. I just didn't class it as a mountain finish

Blazing Saddles wrote:

In anycase, how are mountain stages being won by lesser riders, more interesting?

DeadCalm wrote:

They aren't necessarily. I don't know where I've said that.

You did say that the race had been interesting each day.
Ben King has won two mountain stages and is in now way, shape or form, a podium candidate. With Oscar Rodriguez, that's half the GC mountain won by lesser riders.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Viviani isn't doing too badly here either.

DeadCalm wrote:

Two boring sprint stages in the Vuelta compared to 5 in the Giro at this stage.

Bouhanni also won a sprint stage.

The fact is that post race, the vast majority of pundits felt this Giro to be the best since 2010.
The vast majority of pundits, reading the various forum, are thus far a lot less impressed with this Vuelta.

kingstongraham

DeadCalm wrote:

Two boring sprint stages in the Vuelta compared to 5 in the Giro at this stage.

Hope you aren't including stage 12 at the Giro as a boring sprint stage.

DeadCalm

KingstonGraham wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Two boring sprint stages in the Vuelta compared to 5 in the Giro at this stage.

Hope you aren't including stage 12 at the Giro as a boring sprint stage.

I had. And you're right I shouldn't have done.

DeadCalm

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Carapaz attacked the GC group to win on Montvergine.

DeadCalm wrote:

This isn't in my 6 good stages. Nobody cared.

So, nobody cared about the guy who finished one place off the podium in Rome?
I would suggest that the rest were doing exactly what they are doing at this Vuelta: waiting for somebody else to make the first move.

Nobody cared because he was 14th on GC and not considered a threat.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The "strongest rider", Yates had only won up Gran Sasso and Sappada, at the same point in the race.

DeadCalm wrote:

You've forgotten Osimo. Possibly my favourite stage of that Giro.

I didn't forget. I just didn't class it as a mountain finish

Fair enough. He did win it though.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

In anycase, how are mountain stages being won by lesser riders, more interesting?

DeadCalm wrote:

They aren't necessarily. I don't know where I've said that.

You did say that the race had been interesting each day.
Ben King has won two mountain stages and is in now way, shape or form, a podium candidate. With Oscar Rodriguez, that's half the GC mountain won by lesser riders.

I said they weren't necessarily. All three of those stages saw GC attacks and time gaps.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Viviani isn't doing too badly here either.

DeadCalm wrote:

Two boring sprint stages in the Vuelta compared to 5 in the Giro at this stage.

Bouhanni also won a sprint stage. I've conceded above though that stage 12 of the Giro had some excitement, so 2 vs 4.

That was the stage with splits caused by echelons. Not a particularly boring stage.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The fact is that post race, the vast majority of pundits felt this Giro to be the best since 2010.
The vast majority of pundits, reading the various forum, are thus far a lot less impressed with this Vuelta.

Which is the better is a matter of opinion, not fact. I form my own opinions. I do not need pundits to tell me how I should feel.

blazing_saddles

DeadCalm

I deny any goalposts were moved by me but, whatever, life's too short. And anyway, Kruijswijk and the tt calls.

kingstongraham

Out of interest, did you have stage 17 as a good one or a boring sprint one? I only really remembered it oiff the top of my head as the day they could never get started out of Riva del Garda, but looking back, it was crazy all day after that. I should add it to my list.

DeadCalm

KingstonGraham wrote:

Out of interest, did you have stage 17 as a good one or a boring sprint one? I only really remembered it oiff the top of my head as the day they could never get started out of Riva del Garda, but looking back, it was crazy all day after that. I should add it to my list.

My list only included sprint stages up to the final rest day.

kingstongraham

DeadCalm wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Out of interest, did you have stage 17 as a good one or a boring sprint one? I only really remembered it oiff the top of my head as the day they could never get started out of Riva del Garda, but looking back, it was crazy all day after that. I should add it to my list.

My list only included sprint stages up to the final rest day.

What were the 6 good ones?

DeadCalm

KingstonGraham wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Out of interest, did you have stage 17 as a good one or a boring sprint one? I only really remembered it oiff the top of my head as the day they could never get started out of Riva del Garda, but looking back, it was crazy all day after that. I should add it to my list.

My list only included sprint stages up to the final rest day.

What were the 6 good ones?

Regretfully, I am going to decline your invitation to list them. Some of my opinions seem to offend the world view of the majority of the users of this forum. When I do express them I am then invariably sucked into defending my right to hold them. This has become tiresome. I shall be trying to keep those opinions to myself going forward.

bobmcstuff

DeadCalm wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Out of interest, did you have stage 17 as a good one or a boring sprint one? I only really remembered it oiff the top of my head as the day they could never get started out of Riva del Garda, but looking back, it was crazy all day after that. I should add it to my list.

My list only included sprint stages up to the final rest day.

What were the 6 good ones?

Regretfully, I am going to decline your invitation to list them. Some of my opinions seem to offend the world view of the majority of the users of this forum. When I do express them I am then invariably sucked into defending my right to hold them. This has become tiresome. I shall be trying to keep those opinions to myself going forward.

Don't post on a forum if you don't want debate.

blazing_saddles

bobmcstuff wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Out of interest, did you have stage 17 as a good one or a boring sprint one? I only really remembered it oiff the top of my head as the day they could never get started out of Riva del Garda, but looking back, it was crazy all day after that. I should add it to my list.

My list only included sprint stages up to the final rest day.

What were the 6 good ones?

Regretfully, I am going to decline your invitation to list them. Some of my opinions seem to offend the world view of the majority of the users of this forum. When I do express them I am then invariably sucked into defending my right to hold them. This has become tiresome. I shall be trying to keep those opinions to myself going forward.

Don't post on a forum if you don't want debate.

I suspect that comment was mostly directed at me and my goalposts.
That was only my way of saying that we were never going to see eye to eye on the topic and I would leave it there.

For accuracy sake, though.

DeadCalm wrote:

Nobody cared because he was 14th on GC and not considered a threat.

He was 11th starting the stage, just 1'-23" down and 8th, post stage.
I suppose potentially, the Enric Mas of the Giro.

Let's not forget that also this stage was wet and Chris Froome crashed on a corner going up the climb, had a mad scramble to regain the group and finished dead last in that GC bunch.
I think it's fair to say he was quite bothered at the time!

DeadCalm wrote:

I said they weren't necessarily. All three of those stages saw GC attacks and time gaps.

I think I finally got it with this: time gaps are OK, but not ones that reflect dominance. Hence le drapeau blanc.

DeadCalm

Blazing Saddles wrote:

I suspect that comment was mostly directed at me and my goalposts!
That was only my way of saying that we were never going to see eye to eye on the topic and I would leave it there.

Not really. It was what it was, an acknowledgment that my views are at odds with the majority on certain topics. I regret the use of the word 'tiresome' though. It's more a case of spending more time on these topics than I have spare.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

For accuracy sake, though.

DeadCalm wrote:

Nobody cared because he was 14th on GC and not considered a threat.

He was 11th starting the stage, just 1'-23" down and 8th, post stage.
I suppose potentially, the Enric Mas of the Giro.

You are right. I was wrong.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

I said they weren't necessarily. All three of those stages saw GC attacks and time gaps.

I think I finally got it with this: time gaps are OK, but not ones that reflect dominance. Hence le drapeau blanc.

Kind of. I generally find close battles more exciting than one where a rider delivers a knock out blow, which is not to say that the knock-out blows aren't / can't be exciting. I also understand that mine is a minority view and that many other people think differently.