1 x FOR RACING - Adam Blythe comments...
Comments
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For perspective I know far more about the calorific intake of their very tall Irish bloke and his wee American companion over the last few days than I do about what Aqua Blue actually is. Hell if the riders don't get another team they'd be better placed to take on the current marketing folks jobs.Correlation is not causation.0
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Has anyone else heard Delaney's interview on the cycling podcast Vuelta episode? Very comprehensive explanation from him of what happened.
Can't help but get the impression he is a massive bullsh1tter, but if even half the stuff he says is true they have got some reasons to be legitimately annoyed0 -
Did they promise him two chainrings before he signed?0
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As a non-pro and non-capable road cyclist, but with a son who is a decent MTBer, 1x seems to only make sense for MTBs where electronic shifting would be putting a big financial outlay in an area where rocks and mud can kill them. Also for MTBs lowering weight is a positive benefit - afaiu the UCI weight lower limit negates the advantages of removing the mech / chain ring (though accepting that if weight is removed from the bike it does allow the weight limit to be managed in terms of where it is on the bike through ballast etc). Also on a MTB having to worry about two shifters when the terrain throws up far more challenges in terms of knowing what's coming around the next tree it seems to me that simplifying gear changes makes a logical sense which just doesn't exist for road riding (especially not at the pro end).
I thought Di2 etc effectively took all of the hassle out of multiple front rings with programming that allowed for the most effective transition through the gears without worrying about trimming or rubbing against the front mech.
Anyway, what do I know.2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)0 -
https://audioboom.com/posts/6991427-sta ... spana-2018
Starts around 20:20. Definitely worth a listen. Definitely he said-she said.0 -
Vino'sGhost wrote:it looked like a bad idea, it turned out to be a bad idea but not just for the obvious reasons but also some no one had thought about.
Some people bang on about new designs and innovation but unless its an improvement its just marketing fluff.
It's crazy when you think Campagnolo just released a 12 speed setup. The idea being more gears is better, fewer gaps between ratios etc etc. Then along comes a team going the exact opposite way and thinking it's what riders want. You or I might get by on it fine, people happily ride single speed or fixies so there is an appetite for them but professional road racing? Seriously?0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:https://audioboom.com/posts/6991427-stage-7-puerto-lumbreras-pozo-alcon-vuelta-a-espana-2018
Starts around 20:20. Definitely worth a listen. Definitely he said-she said.
Well worth listening to the Podcast. Who'd want to run a pro bike team ?0 -
larkim wrote:MTB stuff
As you say, nothing kills a front mech (or a rear mech for that matter) like mud. Obviously bouncing over rock on a hardtail gives a lot more potential for dropped chains, with or without a mech. It also makes designing suspension kinematics easier.
Plus, there are very few long, exposed flat stages in XCO. It's either balls out sprinting uphill or downhill and not pedalling (or pedalling much less) so not having the perfect ratio is less important. It's also much easier to get the correct chain ring size when you have a few days of course preview beforehand. Same (or at least similar enough) with CX.
SRAM went so big on 1x becasue they couldnt make a good front mech. Eagle is now 1 x 12. Were AB racing with 12 rear cogs? I ve no idea...
CX is just an appauling mudfest so the less moving parts the better! However the market is small so, one suspects, an enterprising young marketing chap/chapesse thought they should push it for road too. (Then gravel happened, which they must have thanked their lucky stars for...)
I think there is a future in it but, as said, it needs to be 1 x 14 or 1 x 15 to really be effective.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
A few points from the back off this thread:
1) DI2 1x would be awesome. I appreciate a DI2 rear mech is expensive, but they already are selling DI2 for MTB so if you have the money (or are a pro) would be awesome
2) More gears are good, but I've heard the average double crankset only actually has 14 unique gears, the rest is overlap, you are essentially carrying around two of the same gear options. 11/12speed -> 14 doesn't seem like too big a jump.
3) The air around the front mech is even more important BECAUSE the legs are spinning around. The leg forces air to be channeled between the leg and the frame and what do you put there? A big ol' square front mech.
4) Modern chains/groupsets are surprisingly good at dealing with cross chaining. A recent podcast with a guy from SRAM stated that the losses from cross-chaining are much smaller than the potential gains of larger cogs (i.e. big, big cross chaining can be more efficient), OK, I grant a 40-10 combo might not be great, but generally cross chaining isn't as big an issue as most people think it is.
5) I can massively see the benefit of 1x system on the road as well as a mountain bike. When in a 'steady state' terrain, either the flat or in the high mountains where you whack the chain in the big or small rirng and stay there then a double is fine. But my experience of riding round the Yorkshire dales means LOTS of front shifting, small ring up, big ring down EVERY hill and round EVERY corner gets annoying. It would be nice just to have one shifters to think about. I know DI2 can 'kind of' do this with syncro shift but do you really want the front mech shifting on you when your going balls out up a 20% climb? This might not be applicable terrain for everyone, but I imagine in many of the classics (Amstel, Flanders, LBL, etc..) the pros will be changing front mechs frequently, which may add up to a mild hindrance.
6) Weight is also a consideration for the road. Lighter groupset = more weight to make stuff aero = faster. That being said, I don't know if 1x is lighter once you had a 10-42 cassette on (it may be, I haven't looked up the weights).
7) Blythe is now a rider in the market for a ride. It wouldn't surprise me to find out he is just saying stuff to get his name in the press. Look at Dunne and Warbasse, they've been doing some pretty extreme bike packing on 1x.
8) I have run a 1x system in some horrendous cross conditions without a single chain drop, this is my personal experience but I know many, many other people include pro cross riders and mountain bikers who run 1x systems. The 1x idea even come from some pro cyclocrossers bodging it I believe. If neither they nor I have had any chain drops, I guess there is something else going on there that is to blame, rather than the concept of a 1x drive train.
9) I am looking to get a new road bike in the coming 6 months or so, and am strongly considering 1x for it after my experience using it on my cross bike.0 -
I have 1x on two road bikes and one MTB and its ace. There is no down side that I have found. One MTB and one road bike is on 1x1 thats even better. you see bikes started of as 1x over 100 years ago and people did the tour of france on 1x1.
Imagine all those complaining now of 1x11 is not suitable for hills were around in 1905. back then you did not have a choice cope with it or walk.
I like simpler bikes so removing one echanism is a good thing. Removing all the complex parts is even better.
So adam blythe needs to think fo those riders of another age I think. He is also a pro racer, I have little sympathy if he says 1x11 is a bit too turing for him. Diddums, racing is bloodly hard work.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
I mean...I get what you're saying CC but there is a difference between 'getting over' and beating the best in the world over.
MTB is now a 1x zone. It just totally makes sense there. I think it will be dominant in CX and gravel too. But....on the road, those little jumps in cadence can be felt
(Personally, I'd like a "gravel" bike. I think it makes a load of sense for the terrible Cornish lanes and would allow me to get off and muck around on bridleways and forest road and stuff on Dartmoor. However. What makes sense to me then is a super compact type crankset of...say 46 X 30 with a 36th cassette. As this, essentially, gives you a "road" drivetrain and an "MTB" drivetrain on the one bike)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
thecycleclinic wrote:He is also a pro racer, I have little sympathy if he says 1x11 is a bit too turing for him. Diddums, racing is bloodly hard work.
I'm pretty sure Mr Blythe understands that already...0 -
can't remember the riders name but a few months back he was complaining about dropping chains going for a sprint finish.
http://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/4894/aqua-blue-sport-owner-publicly-criticises-teams-3t-strada-bike-for-costing-results
for what its worth I have a 11 speed 2x 11-32 cassette on my bad weather bike and don't like the bigger change in cadence compared with the 11 speed 11-25 on another bike.
knocking out 1200 watts going for a sprint changing gears can't be that good an idea expecting a chain thats un aligned to do what you want it do so your gonads don't wack the stem.
It worked a treat on my daughters Islabike though.0 -
The 3T bike is pretty heavy I seem to remember so the 1x setup probably does save weight on that because I doubt (though haven't checked) it's down to the uci weight limit.
The lack of a front mech is aero but does the system run either a clutch rear mech or a narrow wide chain - the former supposedly costs watts through increased friction and I'm not sure about the chain but seeing as we are talking about pretty marginal gains anyway it would only take marginal losses to offset them.
I tend to agree though with 11 and maybe 12 or 13 tooth cassettes a double chainring is becoming increasingly unnecessary.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
When a rider who has out sprinted some of the best, been a national champion and been there at the sharp end of the world championship road race says a bike is a bit sh*t, he might be worth listening to.0
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They might be crap to race on but I think they look stunning in that photo.
Maybe they can sell them as touring bikes after this ?0 -
Ultimately, it's, really nice having a good close ratio cassette. 1*10 is gonna give you massive jumps or a tiny range, telling riders they need to harden up, when their opposition are on normal adult racing bikes is a bit stupid.
I'm sure 3T could have stuck a mech mount on the bike, although given they couldn't get a seat post to work, maybe it's best they stick to handlebars
NY experience of 1x is that the rear mech/shifter stopped working properly after 500 miles after a muddy rideYou live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Certain the posters who are claiming that 1x is perfect for road and hasn't done a thing wrong haven't read the title of the thread. Loads of things work for normal riding but not racing, it's a different kettle of fish completely, and getting caught out between gears is no fun0
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So I doubt Blythe will be an early adopter of CeramicSpeed Driven then.0
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ShutupJens wrote:Certain the posters who are claiming that 1x is perfect for road and hasn't done a thing wrong haven't read the title of the thread. Loads of things work for normal riding but not racing, it's a different kettle of fish completely, and getting caught out between gears is no fun
I agree if you are a pro tour team relying exclusively on one bike it's less than ideal. The pros have to race up mountains, lined out on the flat at 30mph plus and sprint at 40mph on the same 100 mile day and we are probably a couple of cassette teeth away from covering that without gaps.
If I was considerably richer than I am though I would seriously consider one of these bikes because the functionality of it appeals to me.
I'd stick an 11-25 or 11-27 cassette on though if it's running a 44 tooth chainring because I don't need lower than that for uk racing or traning, the 40 bottom sprocket cassette can go on for trips to the Alps or Fred Whitton.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
ShutupJens wrote:Certain the posters who are claiming that 1x is perfect for road and hasn't done a thing wrong haven't read the title of the thread. Loads of things work for normal riding but not racing, it's a different kettle of fish completely, and getting caught out between gears is no fun
While this is true, and I appreciate my racing and their racing is very different in terms of terrain... but I've done countless races over 10 years and can't ever remember using the little ring during any of them.0 -
ShutupJens wrote:Certain the posters who are claiming that 1x is perfect for road and hasn't done a thing wrong haven't read the title of the thread. Loads of things work for normal riding but not racing, it's a different kettle of fish completely, and getting caught out between gears is no fun
I think there's a distinction between "1x is cr@p for racing" and "the 3T bike is cr@p" which is frequently not being made.
Certainly most of the chain issues seem to be related to the 3T freehub being rubbish.
I can see how the ratio jumps might be less than ideal cadence-wise for racing but the mechanical failures seem to have been the real killer.0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:ShutupJens wrote:Certain the posters who are claiming that 1x is perfect for road and hasn't done a thing wrong haven't read the title of the thread. Loads of things work for normal riding but not racing, it's a different kettle of fish completely, and getting caught out between gears is no fun
I think there's a distinction between "1x is cr@p for racing" and "the 3T bike is cr@p" which is frequently not being made.
Certainly most of the chain issues seem to be related to the 3T freehub being rubbish.
I can see how the ratio jumps might be less than ideal cadence-wise for racing but the mechanical failures seem to have been the real killer.
Genuine question, where have you seen the complaints about the freehub and what exactly is the issue? Are they seizing up or is it something to do with the use of very small sprockets causing the chain to fall due to a tighter bend? I don't really see the need for 9 and 10 tooth sprockets aren't bigger chainrings easier and more efficient anyway ?[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
A season to late, 3T have reinvented the wheel.
https://www.3t.bike/en/products/bikes/s ... e-601.html0 -
The trick is to ride somewhere other than Norfolkjoey54321 wrote:ShutupJens wrote:Certain the posters who are claiming that 1x is perfect for road and hasn't done a thing wrong haven't read the title of the thread. Loads of things work for normal riding but not racing, it's a different kettle of fish completely, and getting caught out between gears is no fun
While this is true, and I appreciate my racing and their racing is very different in terms of terrain... but I've done countless races over 10 years and can't ever remember using the little ring during any of them.
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Webboo wrote:
The trick is to ride somewhere other than Norfolkjoey54321 wrote:ShutupJens wrote:Certain the posters who are claiming that 1x is perfect for road and hasn't done a thing wrong haven't read the title of the thread. Loads of things work for normal riding but not racing, it's a different kettle of fish completely, and getting caught out between gears is no fun
While this is true, and I appreciate my racing and their racing is very different in terms of terrain... but I've done countless races over 10 years and can't ever remember using the little ring during any of them.
Or race on something other than an airfield or motor race circuit! 0 -
Dorset Boy wrote:Webboo wrote:
The trick is to ride somewhere other than Norfolkjoey54321 wrote:ShutupJens wrote:Certain the posters who are claiming that 1x is perfect for road and hasn't done a thing wrong haven't read the title of the thread. Loads of things work for normal riding but not racing, it's a different kettle of fish completely, and getting caught out between gears is no fun
While this is true, and I appreciate my racing and their racing is very different in terms of terrain... but I've done countless races over 10 years and can't ever remember using the little ring during any of them.
Or race on something other than an airfield or motor race circuit!
Precisely this! Once you've ridden a hilly road race in a bunch you'll understand0
