Increasing distance, starting out on audaxes

bianchimoon

I seem to be getting stuck in a Rut of 30 to 40 mile rides twice a week and am getting to that age where I aint going to get any faster, so am looking to throw in some longer distance rides 80 - 100 miles. Have done C2C in a day as well as the odd 80 mile group rides a few years back now. A few months back I did a 65 mile ride starting out a similar pace I would tackle a 30 / 40 miler and can't say I was enjoying it towards the end. So the question is as well as getting fuel/fluids right do distance/audax riders ride to a 'how they feel', 'keep within heart rate zone', to a set power, if they have a PM of course. Or are there other techniques you use to make sure you finish the distance in reasonable comfort?

Brakeless

The 'standard' Audax day out is 200km (130 odd miles).
I reckon the easiest way to do your first one is to beak it down into short sections with breaks. Don't think about the full distance till the end. The breaks may well be determined by the routes control points but there's nothing stopping you taking a break wherever you wish. Do roughly 50km then coffee, 50km then lunch, 50km coffee, 50km finish. Ridden at a steady pace without going 'into the red' I reckon anyone whos' a half fit cyclist can cover a 200 Audax like this.
Ignore speed to start with until you've done a few and you know what you're capable of, just make sure you're getting to controls within the time limits.

bianchimoon

thanks, have a 80 miler planned for tomorrow morning, so steady away

ugo.santalucia

bianchimoon wrote:

thanks, have a 80 miler planned for tomorrow morning, so steady away

which one? Is it the Momma Audax in CHeshire/Wales?

slowbike

Speed and effort is just one element to be aware of - the bit that screws me up is the boredom - I did a relatively short Audax back in the spring, but it was slow and therefore took us a long time (nearly 9 hours) - I was glad to be off the bike at the end. It wasnt the effort or distance that was the issue as I've done further more quickly - it was just that I was sat on the bike pacing my (significantly slower) riding partner around.
I know I get bored after a period of time on the bike as there isn't anything to do other than pedal - or chat - but there's only so much of that you can do.

veronese68

Brakeless wrote:

Ridden at a steady pace without going 'into the red' I reckon anyone whos' a half fit cyclist can cover a 200 Audax like this.

I agree with you, but it's not fun. I've done a 200 but was tired and achy for most of the last 50 and I think that was entirely caused by not being used to spending that much time on the bike.

Brakeless

Veronese68 wrote:

Brakeless wrote:

Ridden at a steady pace without going 'into the red' I reckon anyone whos' a half fit cyclist can cover a 200 Audax like this.

I agree with you, but it's not fun. I've done a 200 but was tired and achy for most of the last 50 and I think that was entirely caused by not being used to spending that much time on the bike.

That could be applicable to a lot of new activities. If you rode a couple of 200s a month for the summer you'd find them a normal days ride pretty quickly without the aches and pains you got on the first one.

bianchimoon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

thanks, have a 80 miler planned for tomorrow morning, so steady away

which one? Is it the Momma Audax in CHeshire/Wales?

Not an organised one Ugo, just using there same roads as the local AudaxUK club has regular routes on. Been fascinated (in awe) ever since riding along with some LEL guys a couple of years back, when I was finishing a 40 miler they'd ridden from edinburgh and still had 50 miles to go to next control stop. The boredom issue is interesting as all my 'long' rides have all been with groups. Weather looks good so perfect opportunity.

bianchimoon

Brakeless wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Brakeless wrote:

Ridden at a steady pace without going 'into the red' I reckon anyone whos' a half fit cyclist can cover a 200 Audax like this.

I agree with you, but it's not fun. I've done a 200 but was tired and achy for most of the last 50 and I think that was entirely caused by not being used to spending that much time on the bike.

That could be applicable to a lot of new activities. If you rode a couple of 200s a month for the summer you'd find them a normal days ride pretty quickly without the aches and pains you got on the first one.

So paracetamol at the ready and plod on then?

ugo.santalucia

for as long as the challenge is there, you won't get bored... when you get close to home, you might...

LEL 2021 is in my bucket list.

where are you based?

bianchimoon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

for as long as the challenge is there, you won't get bored... when you get close to home, you might...

LEL 2021 is in my bucket list.

where are you based?

North Yorkshire, route I'm taking is relatively flat through vale of york and coming back over the lower edges of NY moors, although i've planned 80, if i'm feeling OK have a 20+ mile loop to add on at the end, that will depend more on my head than body I think, that's just a hurdle to get over if I'm going to embrace addax riding.

ugo.santalucia

Not easy to go far in your area. :-)

I think there is a "three coasts 600 Audax" which is something you might aspire to do next year. Not overly hard for a northern ride and it's got overnight sleep at HQ.
Before doing a 400 I had not done anything longer than 200... the jump wasn't too big... each ride is different, you will struggle on some 200 and will fly on some 300 and 400.
You have to try and push the boat so to speak, sometimes you have to be prepared to fail in order to progress.

bianchimoon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Not easy to go far in your area. :-)

I think there is a "three coasts 600 Audax" which is something you might aspire to do next year. Not overly hard for a northern ride and it's got overnight sleep at HQ.
Before doing a 400 I had not done anything longer than 200... the jump wasn't too big... each ride is different, you will struggle on some 200 and will fly on some 300 and 400.
You have to try and push the boat so to speak, sometimes you have to be prepared to fail in order to progress.

Thanks for the advice, do you treat/approach a 400 different to a 200 (i'm thinking for me rein in the normal average speed I would do on a 40 miler which on these roads would be between (real) 16/17mph to aim for approx 15mph, hoping the lowering of effort will aid the increase in distance?

webboo

bianchimoon wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Not easy to go far in your area. :-)

I think there is a "three coasts 600 Audax" which is something you might aspire to do next year. Not overly hard for a northern ride and it's got overnight sleep at HQ.
Before doing a 400 I had not done anything longer than 200... the jump wasn't too big... each ride is different, you will struggle on some 200 and will fly on some 300 and 400.
You have to try and push the boat so to speak, sometimes you have to be prepared to fail in order to progress.

Thanks for the advice, do you treat/approach a 400 different to a 200 (i'm thinking for me rein in the normal average speed I would do on a 40 miler which on these roads would be between (real) 16/17mph to aim for approx 15mph, hoping the lowering of effort will aid the increase in distance?

Anywhere near Pickering or Helmsley.
Opps I should have tagged this to the post saying where are you based.

ugo.santalucia

Looking at my average speed, I seem to treat them all the same

https://www.strava.com/activities/1584821257

https://www.strava.com/activities/1628547523

bianchimoon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Looking at my average speed, I seem to treat them all the same

https://www.strava.com/activities/1584821257

https://www.strava.com/activities/1628547523

That’s interesting, guess you get in the zone and it becomes mechanical after a while?

bianchimoon

Webboo wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Not easy to go far in your area. :-)

I think there is a "three coasts 600 Audax" which is something you might aspire to do next year. Not overly hard for a northern ride and it's got overnight sleep at HQ.
Before doing a 400 I had not done anything longer than 200... the jump wasn't too big... each ride is different, you will struggle on some 200 and will fly on some 300 and 400.
You have to try and push the boat so to speak, sometimes you have to be prepared to fail in order to progress.

Thanks for the advice, do you treat/approach a 400 different to a 200 (i'm thinking for me rein in the normal average speed I would do on a 40 miler which on these roads would be between (real) 16/17mph to aim for approx 15mph, hoping the lowering of effort will aid the increase in distance?

Anywhere near Pickering or Helmsley.
Opps I should have tagged this to the post saying where are you based.

Closer to Northallerton area webboo

ugo.santalucia

bianchimoon wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Looking at my average speed, I seem to treat them all the same

https://www.strava.com/activities/1584821257

https://www.strava.com/activities/1628547523

That’s interesting, guess you get in the zone and it becomes mechanical after a while?

Not necessarily... first 4 hours on the BCM were 20 mph all the way... last 4 hours maybe 12 mph... in the end the average is always pretty much the same... either you ride regularly, or you use too much at the start and you pay the price later... the result is more or less the same.
Don't ride like an idiot (I always do), but don't over think it either

Brakeless

ugo.santalucia wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Looking at my average speed, I seem to treat them all the same

https://www.strava.com/activities/1584821257

https://www.strava.com/activities/1628547523

That’s interesting, guess you get in the zone and it becomes mechanical after a while?

Not necessarily... first 4 hours on the BCM were 20 mph all the way... last 4 hours maybe 12 mph... in the end the average is always pretty much the same... either you ride regularly, or you use too much at the start and you pay the price later... the result is more or less the same.
Don't ride like an idiot (I always do), but don't over think it either

You'll pace it better on your second 600.

bianchimoon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Looking at my average speed, I seem to treat them all the same

https://www.strava.com/activities/1584821257

https://www.strava.com/activities/1628547523

That’s interesting, guess you get in the zone and it becomes mechanical after a while?

Not necessarily... first 4 hours on the BCM were 20 mph all the way... last 4 hours maybe 12 mph... in the end the average is always pretty much the same... either you ride regularly, or you use too much at the start and you pay the price later... the result is more or less the same.
Don't ride like an idiot (I always do), but don't over think it either

Gotcha, thanks for the advice, looking forward to the morning cheers

ugo.santalucia

So?

I did a 130 km Audax... found the climbs quite hard... looking at Strava they were actually quite hard... the OLD Horseshoe pass, a mile at 13% average is not Hardknott, but it's not that far off.
All in all a fantastic route, but way too many controls (3 controls + 4 info controls???!!! :shock: ) for me to bother validating

https://www.strava.com/activities/1812139352

bianchimoon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

So?

I did a 130 km Audax... found the climbs quite hard... looking at Strava they were actually quite hard... the OLD Horseshoe pass, a mile at 13% average is not Hardknott, but it's not that far off.
All in all a fantastic route, but way too many controls (3 controls + 4 info controls???!!! :shock: ) for me to bother validating

https://www.strava.com/activities/1812139352

Did 80 miles, no where near the intensity/effort of yours, it did leave me feeling in even more awe of distance cyclists, just got to do a walk this morning, so i'll report backwater this afternoon when i'm in from of computer with details - cheers

ugo.santalucia

Each ride is different... yesterday was a bit too hot, a bit headwindy in Cheshire and the flies going up the old Horseshoe were a nuisance... I feel for those poor cows... :-)

bianchimoon

Distance 80.10 miles - Moving Time 5:06:24-1,837ft - Avg Speed 15.7mi/h
Started off heading south first 20 miles into a headwind, fairly cool 14 degrees C at 9am, noticed straightaway that heart rate seemed to be hovering around 150bpm, which seemed a tad high to me.
Miles 20-35 were a mix of east and south, so some relief from the wind, easy going so far, felt good, miles 35-55, stopped for a bite to eat (scrambled eggs, beans on toast!) and a coffee, cruising speed reasonable due to tailwind and terrain.
After 60 miles really started to notice the heat and realised I wasn't taking enough fluid on board managed to beg some water from a guy doing his gardening, and top up with some gel/powerbar.
One of the mistakes I think, really should have been decent food maybe a cheese sandwich/crisps to replace salt, as I started to get mild stomach pains and headache at around mile 65 I think due to dehydration, keep drinking and refuse to take the escape road back, a real chore for the last 10 miles, certainly made me doubt I was capable doing a longer ride, and feeling more in awe of ultra distance cyclists.

ugo.santalucia

Heat gets me and certainly gets you... this year has been hot... pretty much all the time since late April.

You seem to be tampering a lot with supplements for sport, which I wouldn't bother with. Maybe electrolytes if it is hot are a good idea, but certainly wouldn't mess with proteins and shakes and whatnot.
I don't do HR monitors, but I can see 150 is a bit high for a long ride... aiming to stay around 100-120 on the flat is a good idea... then again, we are all different.
You'll get there... pick a cooler day for your next effort... I find 12-18 degrees to be my optimum... which is great as it is very common in the UK for most of the year

bianchimoon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Heat gets me and certainly gets you... this year has been hot... pretty much all the time since late April.

You seem to be tampering a lot with supplements for sport, which I wouldn't bother with. Maybe electrolytes if it is hot are a good idea, but certainly wouldn't mess with proteins and shakes and whatnot.
I don't do HR monitors, but I can see 150 is a bit high for a long ride... aiming to stay around 100-120 on the flat is a good idea... then again, we are all different.
You'll get there... pick a cooler day for your next effort... I find 12-18 degrees to be my optimum... which is great as it is very common in the UK for most of the year

Must admit I don't normally put the HR on, but my plan was to use it to stay around 130, but it just wouldn't have it, you're right re the gels/powerbars, I need simpler foods! Plan is to try the same/similar route again under different circumstances and compare, see if I enjoy more and then maybe I'll know if I've got what it takes

ugo.santalucia

Is it a nice route? No point in flogging yourself with a crap route just to clock miles... I always rode stronger on great routes

bianchimoon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Is it a nice route? No point in flogging yourself with a crap route just to clock miles... I always rode stronger on great routes

I'll have to be honest and say it's a relatively easy route round the vale of york, I did plan on doing it on my own as i feel that's part of the test, only me, my head and my pace, but a mate decided to join me for half of the route, which obviously changes the dynamics of the ride. As I mentioned before any 'long' rides I've done in the past (130 miles max) have always been with a group and i feel it's a different challenge altogether soloing distance?

cld531c

I did Mommas Mountain Views last year as my first audax and thought it was a lovely route, but agree the Old Shoe is a killer!
Did the 50km one this year with my new to cycling partner so may have seen you at the end Ugo! I had the dog trailer (and wine!)
To the OP re distances, what about entering a 150km to start? The Cheshire Safari one is in November and pretty flat but some of the route is a bit boring. Just find someone to tag along with and the miles go much quicker.

ugo.santalucia

cld531c wrote:

I did Mommas Mountain Views last year as my first audax and thought it was a lovely route, but agree the Old Shoe is a killer!
Did the 50km one this year with my new to cycling partner so may have seen you at the end Ugo! I had the dog trailer (and wine!)

Maybe... I recall someone having a bit of picnic on the tables outside at the end... I was wearing a maroon merino top

cld531c

ugo.santalucia wrote:

cld531c wrote:

I did Mommas Mountain Views last year as my first audax and thought it was a lovely route, but agree the Old Shoe is a killer!
Did the 50km one this year with my new to cycling partner so may have seen you at the end Ugo! I had the dog trailer (and wine!)

Maybe... I recall someone having a bit of picnic on the tables outside at the end... I was wearing a maroon merino top

That will have been us! Would be lying if I said I remembered you!