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Structured training on hilly roads

gingerflash1975gingerflash1975 Posts: 49
So I've got a training plan, a Sufferfest one that I've dropped into my TrainingPeaks calendar. The intervals are fine. No issues there.

The outside, weekend rides though? How do I actually manage to stick to these intervals, even very approximately, when riding hilly/rolling terrain in the Yorkshire Dales? A typical one is below.

If the plan says I should be riding at 45% of FTP and I get to a 15% climb? If the plan says I should be at 120% of FTP when I'm going down a steep sketchy descent?


Main Effort
Number of Sets
3
Rest Between Sets
10 minutes @ RPE 1.5 -- 45% of FTP -- HR <75%
Interval Repeats per Set
1
Interval
Surge: 20 seconds @ RPE 9.5 -- 90% of AC (135-190%+ of FTP)
Steady: 15 minutes @ RPE 7 -- 90% of FTP -- HR <100%

Posts

  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,385
    Either do it on a turbo, or find flatter roads?
  • Wow, that was great, thanks.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,385
    edited August 2018
    You're welcome. The sufferfest intervals you mention are almost certainly designed for turbo use, which is why I mention it.

    Either way, intervals of that intensity/duration do not lend themselves well to outdoor use, hilly terrain or not. So you either interpret/adapt them to the terrain you have, or go indoors.
  • craigus89craigus89 Posts: 887
    Not sure what you're expecting anyone to tell you?

    Plan your routes properly.
    If you get to the bottom of a steep hill, turn around and ride the way you came until the end of your rest interval then go back again.
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    Stuff like that has turbo written all over it. No distractions. No traffic. No danger.

    If you're doing 9.5 RPE then its much safer on a turbo.
  • This has to be a wind up
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • So I've got a training plan, a Sufferfest one that I've dropped into my TrainingPeaks calendar. The intervals are fine. No issues there.

    The outside, weekend rides though? How do I actually manage to stick to these intervals, even very approximately, when riding hilly/rolling terrain in the Yorkshire Dales? A typical one is below.

    If the plan says I should be riding at 45% of FTP and I get to a 15% climb? If the plan says I should be at 120% of FTP when I'm going down a steep sketchy descent?


    Main Effort
    Number of Sets
    3
    Rest Between Sets
    10 minutes @ RPE 1.5 -- 45% of FTP -- HR <75%
    Interval Repeats per Set
    1
    Interval
    Surge: 20 seconds @ RPE 9.5 -- 90% of AC (135-190%+ of FTP)
    Steady: 15 minutes @ RPE 7 -- 90% of FTP -- HR <100%

    in general i agree with the others, these efforts are easier to do on the turbo in a super structured way. BUT, you know what, it can often be less mentally challenging to do them on the road/trail/track, even with the advent of smart trainers and Zwift (both of which i use).

    What you could do is, to do the 'on' portions on the flats and uphill, especially if you know where you're going and select a route that fits your training plan. Obviously you don't want to be riding like crazy fast at 190% of FTP downhill. however, the rest periods in certain intervals need to be adhered too, to make the on portion work correctly (or the way that it was designed). careful route planning is of importance.

    I've had athletes say that the 'off' period was X seconds/minutes, but they couldn't turn round to start the next interval because a car was coming. safety trumps the structure.

    other than the turbo, the other alternative is to take the turbo to the road. I have an Airhub which overcomes these issues.

    or the really structured intervals you keep to the turbo and the intervals that are less crucial from a time/intensity perspective you do on the road (with all the inherent issues that come with the road)

    Ric
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  • Sometimes people live in places where the roads simply are not suitable for certain types of training efforts (lumpy, technical terrain, busy city roads with lots of interruptions etc). This is common for amateur athletes, less so for pros who move to locations most suitable for their training needs.

    So it's a matter of assessing how important such efforts are to achieving your training goals:

    i. if they are not critical, do something else instead which will still contribute to meeting your training goals. This may also involve restructuring the training overall to be more suitable to your local conditions.

    ii. if they are critical, then find alternative ways to perform such training efforts, such as the indoor trainer, or organising to travel to more suitable location.

    I see it as no different to setting sensible and feasible to execute training plans which work within various constraints to training, such as time availability, seasons, weather, equipment options, rest of life stresses and so on. Some factors one can change in order to prioritise training, other factors can't be changed or have a higher priority than training. It's all part of working out what training is suitable for each individual.
  • So for example with some athletes we would plan for mini training camps at locations which enabled them to do a specific type of training they could not execute in their local environment. That might be access to long climbs, or visiting velodromes, or being at altitude, or simply great roads for performing long uninterrupted efforts for example.

    Usually, the stronger your motivation the more ways you find to do what you need to do in order to achieve your training goals.
  • Imposter wrote:
    You're welcome. The sufferfest intervals you mention are almost certainly designed for turbo use, which is why I mention it.

    Either way, intervals of that intensity/duration do not lend themselves well to outdoor use, hilly terrain or not. So you either interpret/adapt them to the terrain you have, or go indoors.

    This is correct.

    I utilize my outdoor time to enjoy, explore, socialize, or go learn some skills in the group hammer ride.

    The indoor structure kind of makes the outdoor time like a "treat". Instead of being confined to a plan, I can go do as I please and utilize my hard fought gains.

    So, when I was on weekend from work in France I didn't focus on getting in some epic climbing intervals. I just rode to see what I wanted to see: castles, wineries, and yes climb a few cols at a solid pace. But if I saw something I wanted to see/do/eat, I did so.

    How much total time per week do you have to yourself? How much of it (if good weather) can be outdoors and indoors?

    If your outdoor time is limited, I'd suggest keeping that to "personal time" or a challenging group ride to keep skills sharp.
  • CptKernowCptKernow Posts: 467
    If you want to train with power outdoors I think you will have to build your workouts around the terrain. Things like hill repeats or find a 10-20 minute circuit you can put in a hard effort over.

    I don't think you'll be able to knock out a perfect 10 minute interval followed by 5 mins active recovery unless you live somewhere pan flat and with no traffic.

    I'm pretty new to having a power meter myself and am currently just using it as a stick to stop myself slacking on the flat.
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