The next project - FS build

billycool

I've just caught up with this thread and really looking forward to seeing the finished article.

It's a bit late in the day but just chucking my thoughts in on a couple of things.

XT brakes - I have SLX and XT and find the SLX just as capable. I know you currently have some Guides so not sure if you're still looking to change.
SRAM v Shimano - I was running SRAM 1x11 but due to cost, my new cassette and chain are now both XT. Still using SRAM shifter and mech. Works really well. Just an idea if you wanted to keep cost down or future servicing.
Hubs - I've recently had wheels built up on Pro 4 hubs - front was c.£65 but used Clubcard vouchers at Evans so was effectively free and the rear was £90 2nd hand (more or less new) from eBay - I've just found out that I can convert my £80 worth of Nectar points into eBay vouchers. Wish I'd known at the time! Good excuse to do more shopping.

Anyway - the (black) Pro 4's are on some nice (black) WTB i23's with (black) nipples and spokes. Set up tubeless and so far all is good. The rims were reduced from £70 each to £20 so did well there as well.

Keep us posted!

slc123

In terms of brakes I decided to get a set of Guide RSCs, I got an amazing deal on some secondhand and I like the guide Rs I have on my other bike so figured these would be pretty good.

In terms of hubs I’ve got loads of options but still it decided yet. I’ve been checking out the new V6 UK made hubs from superstar but seem quite pricey and no chance of anything secondhand there.

One quick question I had for you guys. What size rims are you running? I’ve currently got 27s on my trail bike. The E512s come in 25 which I believe will be absolutely fine, or I could give the M502s a go which are similar price at 30 Internal width. This does seem a bit overkill for my riding though as I’m not into downhill or jumps. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on it.

steve_sordy

The 25mm internals will be fine , but the 30's won't slow you down and will be perfect when your ambition takes you further. I'd go for the 30's.

billycool

slc123 wrote:

In terms of brakes I decided to get a set of Guide RSCs, I got an amazing deal on some secondhand and I like the guide Rs I have on my other bike so figured these would be pretty good.

In terms of hubs I’ve got loads of options but still it decided yet. I’ve been checking out the new V6 UK made hubs from superstar but seem quite pricey and no chance of anything secondhand there.

One quick question I had for you guys. What size rims are you running? I’ve currently got 27s on my trail bike. The E512s come in 25 which I believe will be absolutely fine, or I could give the M502s a go which are similar price at 30 Internal width. This does seem a bit overkill for my riding though as I’m not into downhill or jumps. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on it.

The most important thing is that you have brakes you are happy.

I also considered the V6's but the price was so close to the Hope's that I decided to stick with a proven brand.

My rims are 25mm but I only run 2.2 tyres as that's fine for what I ride.They happily go up to 2.4. I guess it depends what you want to use and what your bike can accomodate.

slc123

I guess it’s going to come down to pros and cons. I want to keep the bike climbing well as I tend to do quite a bit of that, I feel like I’m leaning towards the 25s and maybe running something like. 2.4.

Either way looking forward to giving the wheel build a go!

JBA

You’ll be able to run 2.4 tyres on 25mm rims without any problems.
Before I got my Stan’s/Hope wheels I ran 2.35 Nobby Nics on 19mm rims and I didn’t die.

slc123

JBA wrote:

You’ll be able to run 2.4 tyres on 25mm rims without any problems.
Before I got my Stan’s/Hope wheels I ran 2.35 Nobby Nics on 19mm rims and I didn’t die.

Yep that would be my plan.

joebristol

Just to add my current wheels are 25mm internal wish - been running a 2.3 dhr2 or aggressor on the back and then either a 2.5wt dhf or 2.35 Magic Mary on the front. The new wheels I’m building are 30mm internal so will be interesting to see how the 2.5 dhf’s Blow up on them. Hoping they still fit through the non-boost Lyriks ok. I don’t think it’ll make a huge difference to width - maybe just square off the tyres a bit.

Both wheels are laced but only just about to start tensioning the front wheel over the next few days where I get 10 mins here and there. Once done I’ll get the rim taped and setup the dhf tubeless and on the bike. I’ll then start on the rear wheel - I want to get a 2.4 dhr2 to go on that I think but looking around for a vaguely sensible price before pulling the trigger.

slc123

Looking for some suggestions for handlebars. I have some fairly cheap RaceFace ones on my trail bike and you do tend to feel the trail chatter a fair bit and on longer rides it's not all that comfortable. Would some substantially better AL bars reduce this or should I be looking to go carbon as I've heard that can help a lot.

billycool

slc123 wrote:

Looking for some suggestions for handlebars. I have some fairly cheap RaceFace ones on my trail bike and you do tend to feel the trail chatter a fair bit and on longer rides it's not all that comfortable. Would some substantially better AL bars reduce this or should I be looking to go carbon as I've heard that can help a lot.

Good question - not sure really.

I have some AL Easton Monkey Bars on my HT and some Renthal carbon bars on my FS.

I don't think I'm sofisticated enough to notice the difference!

Some say that carbon bars really help and others say less so. I'm undecided.

If you can afford carbon then it's probably worth it but not essential IMO. I think it also depends on your forks and how much trail chatter makes it to your bars.

steve_sordy

slc123 wrote:

Looking for some suggestions for handlebars. I have some fairly cheap RaceFace ones on my trail bike and you do tend to feel the trail chatter a fair bit and on longer rides it's not all that comfortable. Would some substantially better AL bars reduce this or should I be looking to go carbon as I've heard that can help a lot.

I have problems with my hands and I can suffer from numbness and tingling. I use Ergon GP1 grips to spread the load, but the handlebars can have an impact for sure.

I used to have a Kona Dawg Supreme that had a Kona XC/BC alloy bar. I replaced it with a Renthal Fatbar Lite alloy bar and my comment at the time was "fantastic, however did I manage without it?"

On another bike, a Norco Sight, I had a RaceFace Turbine alloy bar and swapped it out for a Renthal Fatbar Lite Carbon. I remember thinking at the time that it felt as though the corner of every rock on the trail had been rounded off just for me. The reduction in vibration was significant. But after a few weeks I forgot all about it, as it was the new normal. Great bar!

Another bike, a YT Capra, had a RaceFace Atlas 35 bar. I never changed that as it felt absolutely fine, even when swapping straight over from the Norco with the carbon bar.

My Whyte T130 has a "Whyte Custom Alloy" bar. No idea whose bar is under the Whyte logo. But I have no plans to change it.

Summary: Some alloy bars are better than others, and a Renthal Fatbar LIte is a good one. But a Renthal Fatbar LIte Carbon is the dog's danglies if you want to reduce vibration.

slc123

BillyCool wrote:

I don't think I'm sofisticated enough to notice the difference!

Most likely I'll be in the same camp too... I've never ridden carbon bars, so thought I would see if there was going to be a dramatic difference and worth spending the extra cash.

billycool

slc123 wrote:

BillyCool wrote:

I don't think I'm sofisticated enough to notice the difference!

Most likely I'll be in the same camp too... I've never ridden carbon bars, so thought I would see if there was going to be a dramatic difference and worth spending the extra cash.

I think the difference is subtle and certainly not dramatic. I'd suggest you look at your forks. What are they?

IMO carbon bars aren't essential and it depends who at sort of riding you do. Until I bought Steve's Norco with the carbon bars I'd never used them before. Carbon bars won't compensate for knackered/inefficient forks, so that would be my focal point. Sort that out and the bars issue should be academic.

Also look at grips as they are really important and sometimes overlooked.

slc123

The forks I am running on the trail bike are 130 RS Yari's recently had a lower leg service and only a year old. The other forks I am running on the new build are 160 RS Yari's only 9 months old, so doubtful that either are in a bad condition.

billycool

slc123 wrote:

The forks I am running on the trail bike are 130 RS Yari's recently had a lower leg service and only a year old. The other forks I am running on the new build are 160 RS Yari's only 9 months old, so doubtful that either are in a bad condition.

Fair enough - what about fork pressure/sag and rebound settings?

Are you tubeless or not? What psi are you running?

My mate runs a very soft front fork that I refer to as a pogo stick - it does smooth the trail out but dives too much in other areas to suit me. My front fork is firmer and although I do get more trail feedback, it does suit my type of riding better.

What terrain or you riding on? I thought these posh forks were all meant to be good with `small bump sensitivity`? That's something else I've failed to get to grips with!

If your forks are healthy then I'm sure something else can be tweaked to help.

slc123

I am tubeless on the HT and vary pressures depending on the riding and the conditions. As standard I would say 25 - 28psi, I'll drop that when extra grip is required.

The forks themselves I do run quite firmer as I find them a bit to spongy in the corners otherwise. I tend to favour a fairly quick rebound too as most of my ridings is over a mixture of XC and trail terrain (roots, stones/rocks etc) Nothing particularly gnarly.

Like I said before, it's not really a problem I just wondered if different bars would make the difference.

billycool

You ride similar stuff to me and my forks are also quite firm.

Maybe look at grips and see if you can `borrow` some carbon bars to see what you think?

slc123

A quick build update for anyone who's interested...

New BB, Descendant cranks and ring fitted.



FSA headset and desendant stem fitted.



Forks cleaned up and fitted.

The Rookie

Looking good so far!

slc123

The Rookie wrote:

Looking good so far!

Thanks, lots to do but getting there slowly...

joebristol

Will be nice when built up. Those are essentially the Yari’s I had. They were pretty good, but now I’ve Lyrik’d them with a charger 2 damper, new seals and a 2019 debonair air spring (170mm) they’re amazing!

slc123

Update for anyone who is interested...

Rims ordered - Gone for the DT Swiss E532 30mm rims
Hubs bought - Got a set of E13 TRS hubs really cheap

Still a bit stuck on handlebars... Anyone have any recommendations for something with very minimal graphics. 31.8 diameter 780mm+ width, not too bothered on carbon.

Thanks

billycool

slc123 wrote:

Update for anyone who is interested...

Rims ordered - Gone for the DT Swiss E532 30mm rims
Hubs bought - Got a set of E13 TRS hubs really cheap

Still a bit stuck on handlebars... Anyone have any recommendations for something with very minimal graphics. 31.8 diameter 780mm+ width, not too bothered on carbon.

Thanks

30mm rims? Blimey - I'm still happily running 23/24mm but I do only use 2.2 tyres.

I've got a set of E13 hubs - pretty solid but the only downside is that they can be quite hard on your hub bearings. Yours may be a newer version and less of an issue. Just keep an eye on them - they'll run rough and you'll get 2 or 3mm movement on the rim when they've had enough. If you are comfortable changing bearings you should be fine (not sure if they need a special tool as I've always paid to have mine done). They do build a nice stiff wheel though.

My E13s are now my spare set as I've got Hope Pro 4's laced to some WTB i23's. Hopefully easier to maintain and I can do the bearings myself.

As for bars - Carbon for £65?

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nuk ... prod158768

Keep us posted.

slc123

BillyCool wrote:

30mm rims? Blimey - I'm still happily running 23/24mm but I do only use 2.2 tyres.

I did debate this for a while and decided to go with the 30s as that's what it was originally spec'd with and the weight difference wasn't major. For that width DT Swiss seem to suggest a 2.35 tyre was a good match, which is generally what I am running.

BillyCool wrote:

I've got a set of E13 hubs - pretty solid but the only downside is that they can be quite hard on your hub bearings. Yours may be a newer version and less of an issue. Just keep an eye on them - they'll run rough and you'll get 2 or 3mm movement on the rim when they've had enough. If you are comfortable changing bearings you should be fine (not sure if they need a special tool as I've always paid to have mine done). They do build a nice stiff wheel though.

My E13s are now my spare set as I've got Hope Pro 4's laced to some WTB i23's. Hopefully easier to maintain and I can do the bearings myself.

Good to know, I think the rear is a 2016 model and the front is a 2017.

BillyCool wrote:

As for bars - Carbon for £65?

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nuk ... prod158768

Keep us posted.

Thanks for this, I hadn't considered the Horizon. As I am not fussed on carbon, I might actually just get the alloy version. Looks good and only £39.99

billycool

slc123 wrote:

BillyCool wrote:

30mm rims? Blimey - I'm still happily running 23/24mm but I do only use 2.2 tyres.

I did debate this for a while and decided to go with the 30s as that's what it was originally spec'd with and the weight difference wasn't major. For that width DT Swiss seem to suggest a 2.35 tyre was a good match, which is generally what I am running.

I'm a bit old school and still playing catch up with anything wider than 25mm..... :?

BillyCool wrote:

I've got a set of E13 hubs - pretty solid but the only downside is that they can be quite hard on your hub bearings. Yours may be a newer version and less of an issue. Just keep an eye on them - they'll run rough and you'll get 2 or 3mm movement on the rim when they've had enough. If you are comfortable changing bearings you should be fine (not sure if they need a special tool as I've always paid to have mine done). They do build a nice stiff wheel though.

My E13s are now my spare set as I've got Hope Pro 4's laced to some WTB i23's. Hopefully easier to maintain and I can do the bearings myself.

Good to know, I think the rear is a 2016 model and the front is a 2017.

Mine were c.2013/14 so yours might be a lot better and have the better/improve 2nd generation seals etc.

BillyCool wrote:

As for bars - Carbon for £65?

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nuk ... prod158768

Keep us posted.

Thanks for this, I hadn't considered the Horizon. As I am not fussed on carbon, I might actually just get the alloy version. Looks good and only £39.99

A bars a bar. I've been happy with alloy for years!

slc123

I've only had alloy, so I am happy to stick with that!

I've got 27mm rims on the trail bike, which I'm really happy with but DT Swiss don't give that option.

joebristol

If you haven’t bought a bar already I’ve found the Planet X el guapo saloon bar to be fine. 780mm. Width and in both clamp sizes (32.9 and 35mm) with a nice U.K. and back sweep. I used them to replace a raceface 760mm wise bar which innever really got on with. The raceface bar always seemed harsh and didn’t sweep up and back enough for me to get comfortable. Really cheap from time to time as well - only paid £15.99 for mine a while back!

slc123

I'm now onto tyres for the 30mm rims. Research tells me people are generally divided about the best widths. I was originally thinking just go with 2.35s, but people seem to suggest they might flatten out too much on 30mm rims and it may be better to go 2.5 up front and 2.4 at the rear.

What's everyone running and does anyone have any input?

The Rookie

In my experience 2.35 work fine on a 30mm (external, 27mm internal) width rim, 2.25" are marginal though and yes the tread sits a little flat.

robertpb

I would never go by what is says on the sidewall, eg my Magic Marys at 2.35 come up bigger than most 2.4s and as big as 2.5s.
Have a look at this German site real tyre measurements, http://www.reifenbreiten-datenbank.de/reifen.html