Tory Tweet

Moonbiker

https://www.bikebiz.com/community/torie ... g-cyclists

Nice way to stoke up daily mail reader types hatred of cyclist even more.

Probably will encourage some drivers to do there own version "cracking down" on cyclists etc....

cycleclinic

just goes to show who we have setting policy in our country. It's not Mrs Wollaston.

svetty

I despair what this country is like. Odious Brexit Conservatives and Loony Left Corbyn Labour. No credible alternative government. Whatever happened to sensible old Britain?

StillGoing

Svetty wrote:

I despair what this country is like. Odious Brexit Conservatives and Loony Left Corbyn Labour. No credible alternative government. Whatever happened to sensible old Britain?

I despair of anyone referring to Brexit voters as odious and Conservative. A good section of Labour voters voted for Brexit. Irrespective of how anyone voted in the EU referendum, Brexit won, so get on with it. Holding your breath, stamping your feet and screaming and screaming until you're sick won't change things.

https://twitter.com/MRJKilcoyne/status/ ... 0386892801

the_hundredth_idiot

Why no problem with "Loony Left Corbyn Labour"?

StillGoing

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

Why no problem with "Loony Left Corbyn Labour"?

The point was, Brexit voters were from all parties and not just the Conservative side of politics.

CitizenLee

Should this not be in The Cake Stop?

SJH76

philthy3 wrote:

Svetty wrote:

I despair what this country is like. Odious Brexit Conservatives and Loony Left Corbyn Labour. No credible alternative government. Whatever happened to sensible old Britain?

I despair of anyone referring to Brexit voters as odious and Conservative. A good section of Labour voters voted for Brexit. Irrespective of how anyone voted in the EU referendum, Brexit won, so get on with it. Holding your breath, stamping your feet and screaming and screaming until you're sick won't change things.

https://twitter.com/MRJKilcoyne/status/ ... 0386892801

Sorry to interrupt, but that's not what he said. He is referring to the extreme hard-line Brexit Tories i.e Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg. I don't believe he was saying all Brexit voters are odious. Just the ones which seem to be hell bent on creating a right wing nationalist Britain, which I for one find the idea of repulsive.

svetty

philthy3 wrote:

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

Why no problem with "Loony Left Corbyn Labour"?

The point was, Brexit voters were from all parties and not just the Conservative side of politics.

True but you have latched onto the word Brexit and not the overall context of the thread. My point was that our politicians generally are a clusterf*ck and prone to pandering to populist sentiment of which the anti-cyclist issue is an example (and Brexit another IMO).

We need sensible leadership which puts the interests of the country first. That means promoting cycling not pandering to the cycling editorials in the Daily Heil.

StillGoing

Svetty wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

Why no problem with "Loony Left Corbyn Labour"?

The point was, Brexit voters were from all parties and not just the Conservative side of politics.

True but you have latched onto the word Brexit and not the overall context of the thread. My point was that our politicians generally are a clusterf*ck and prone to pandering to populist sentiment of which the anti-cyclist issue is an example (and Brexit another IMO).

We need sensible leadership which puts the interests of the country first. That means promoting cycling not pandering to the cycling editorials in the Daily Heil.

Oh I'll agree that many MPs from all parties are the very people that shouldn't be in politics. It ranges from the in it for the money and perks to the blatantly holding hands with terrorists. We all know the DM has a beef for cycling, probably because of the Murdoch empire and links with Team Sky getting all that publicity. But equally, the cycling maniacs causing problems on the streets of London, don't do us any favours.

Stevo_666

CitizenLee wrote:

Should this not be in The Cake Stop?

Or Commuting Chat.

svetty

SJH76 wrote:

Sorry to interrupt, but that's not what he said. He is referring to the extreme hard-line Brexit Tories i.e Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg. I don't believe he was saying all Brexit voters are odious. Just the ones which seem to be hell bent on creating a right wing nationalist Britain, which I for one find the idea of repulsive.

Agreed - Brexit voters can be many things. Some are indeed xenophobic nationalists and the term odious is appropriately applied to them. Others are simply misguided - lied to during a campaign where truth, quiet consideration and reasoned debate was a rarity. What is certainly the case is that we are not a society at peace with itself.
In a world where nationalism and populism is gaining traction in many countries, foreign policy is becoming more bellicose across the globe (eg Trump, Putin, Erdewan, Kim Jung Un), where trade wars are breaking out, inequality is widening and human rights are increasingly marginalised I don't have optimism that our politicians have the vision or drive to steer our country to better things.

What the world needs is tolerance, understanding, cooperation, civility and compassion and I don't see much of this reflected in Brexit.

StillGoing

Svetty wrote:

SJH76 wrote:

Sorry to interrupt, but that's not what he said. He is referring to the extreme hard-line Brexit Tories i.e Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg. I don't believe he was saying all Brexit voters are odious. Just the ones which seem to be hell bent on creating a right wing nationalist Britain, which I for one find the idea of repulsive.

Agreed - Brexit voters can be many things. Some are indeed xenophobic nationalists and the term odious is appropriately applied to them. Others are simply misguided - lied to during a campaign where truth, quiet consideration and reasoned debate was a rarity. What is certainly the case is that we are not a society at peace with itself.
In a world where nationalism and populism is gaining traction in many countries, foreign policy is becoming more bellicose across the globe (eg Trump, Putin, Erdewan, Kim Jung Un), where trade wars are breaking out, inequality is widening and human rights are increasingly marginalised I don't have optimism that our politicians have the vision or drive to steer our country to better things.

What the world needs is tolerance, understanding, cooperation, civility and compassion and I don't see much of this reflected in Brexit.

Sorry, but they were not lied to. The leaflet sent to all voters by the government clearly pointed out what leaving meant. Not in the single market and not in the customs union. A possibility of years of hardship before things got better. The ability to strike up trade deals with the world rather than be tied into EU regulations.

This belongs in Cakestop and not here. I'll be reporting it for removal to there.

veronese68

philthy3 wrote:

But equally, the cycling maniacs causing problems on the streets of London, don't do us any favours.

do you read the Daily Mail as well?

StillGoing

Veronese68 wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

But equally, the cycling maniacs causing problems on the streets of London, don't do us any favours.

do you read the Daily Mail as well?

No, but I see plenty of cycling idiots riding without consideration for others on the streets of London on YouTube.

How about moving it then if you're a moderator before it causes even greater disharmony on what should be cycling threads rather than politics? :roll:

stueys

philthy3 wrote:

Svetty wrote:

SJH76 wrote:

Sorry to interrupt, but that's not what he said. He is referring to the extreme hard-line Brexit Tories i.e Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg. I don't believe he was saying all Brexit voters are odious. Just the ones which seem to be hell bent on creating a right wing nationalist Britain, which I for one find the idea of repulsive.

Agreed - Brexit voters can be many things. Some are indeed xenophobic nationalists and the term odious is appropriately applied to them. Others are simply misguided - lied to during a campaign where truth, quiet consideration and reasoned debate was a rarity. What is certainly the case is that we are not a society at peace with itself.
In a world where nationalism and populism is gaining traction in many countries, foreign policy is becoming more bellicose across the globe (eg Trump, Putin, Erdewan, Kim Jung Un), where trade wars are breaking out, inequality is widening and human rights are increasingly marginalised I don't have optimism that our politicians have the vision or drive to steer our country to better things.

What the world needs is tolerance, understanding, cooperation, civility and compassion and I don't see much of this reflected in Brexit.

Sorry, but they were not lied to. The leaflet sent to all voters by the government clearly pointed out what leaving meant. Not in the single market and not in the customs union. A possibility of years of hardship before things got better. The ability to strike up trade deals with the world rather than be tied into EU regulations.

This belongs in Cakestop and not here. I'll be reporting it for removal to there.

They weren't lied to? I seem to recall various things from the campaign - '350m a week for the NHS', 'a deal with the EU will be easy', to pick just a few. The whole leave campaign was effectively a fabrication, certainly no one can claim that that definition of Brexit, and hence what people were actually voting for, was clearly defined by either side. The only fair process from this point would be a another vote on the actual Brexit deal when the outcome is clear.

And I would replace 'a possibility of years of hardship' with a certainity. The government's own figures show that there is no post Brexit outcome where the UK economy isn't adversely impacted in the short to mid-term.

veronese68

philthy3 wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

But equally, the cycling maniacs causing problems on the streets of London, don't do us any favours.

do you read the Daily Mail as well?

No, but I see plenty of cycling idiots riding without consideration for others on the streets of London on YouTube.

And there are far more people that ride with consideration, seeing the extremes on YouTube is hardly representative. You are coming out with the sort of hysteria the Daily Mail spouts. There are a lot of idiots in London because there are a lot of people. Some of them ride bikes. The proportion of idiots in London is no higher than anywhere else, there's just a higher concentration of people. Idiots in cars are far more dangerous and there are lots of them as well.

philthy3 wrote:

How about moving it then if you're a moderator before it causes even greater disharmony on what should be cycling threads rather than politics? :roll:

Unfortunately I can't move it as I'm not a moderator any more, the only person that can do that is Josh. He will see your report and act on it when he has time.

Completely agree with Svetty's original post, I get what he meant by it. The government and opposition are a complete shambles.

craigus89

Oh yey, another brexit thread.

mfin

Craigus89 wrote:

Oh yey, another brexit thread.

If people who voted in favour of it just accepted that vast amounts of other pro-brexit voters were pretty dumb, ignorant, and misinformed then the threads wouldn't be so long. It is perfectly logical to accept this about the pro-brexit voters because it's true and it does NOT mean that all of them are like that. Of course many of them were intelligent people who were considered about their vote too.

Some pro-brexit voters get on the defensive because they think they are ALL being labelled in a way they don't want to, it's knee-jerk responding.

The reactions would be strange if it wasn't for it being obvious that people in general do not like criticism about anything.

Brexit threads were always going to be long to never-ending.

....it's the same with the dangerous cycling problem, it IS a problem, there are lots of people riding like prats, it does not need people jumping to point out how many more ride properly, we know that, it's obvious and goes without saying.

Ben6899

philthy3 is Mr X and I claim my five pounds.

narbs

Ben6899 wrote:

philthy3 is Mr X and I claim my five pounds.

If he thinks that there are plenty of cycling idiots riding without consideration for others on the streets of London because he's just discovered YouTube then he's probably Donald f**king Trump.

verylonglegs

Must be the silly season for this kind of thing, the local paper round here has been running an online poll for the last week asking if there should be death by dangerous cycling law for cyclists that hit pedestrians. Cue the usual comments section packed with stuff like 'they should all be taxed and insured' etc etc. Have no idea why they focused on the cyclists killing pedestrians though, is that more a handful of cases per year?

DeVlaeminck

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/cows ... ans-391034

Pretty much sums up the madness of these proposals.

cycleclinic

its not likely to pass. There are sensible MP's in parliment and some of them will make some noise. The goverement can barley get anything done at the moment. If you think its silly season now just wait till next march 19th.

Sensible old Britain was a myth it never existed.

DeVlaeminck

I hope not but the constant drip feed of anti cyclist propaganda can't help but have an affect on the way we are seen by non cyclists as most MPs are. In these times maybe clamping down on cyclists is a way of being seen to be doing something whilst the politicians seem in deadlock over bigger issues facing the country.

rolf_f

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I hope not but the constant drip feed of anti cyclist propaganda can't help but have an affect on the way we are seen by non cyclists as most MPs are. In these times maybe clamping down on cyclists is a way of being seen to be doing something whilst the politicians seem in deadlock over bigger issues facing the country.

To be fair, thanks to the likes of the Daily Mail, there is a constant drip of anti-everything and everyone propaganda. Hopefully "the furious" will be too busy targeting everyone else they hate to spend too much time on us.

pblakeney

thecycleclinic wrote:

its not likely to pass.

I hope it does come to pass. It is meaningless dressing that no sensible cyclist could object to.
One less thing for them to get angry about in the future. Now, about all those dangerous drivers...

arthur_scrimshaw

philthy3 wrote:

Svetty wrote:

SJH76 wrote:

Sorry to interrupt, but that's not what he said. He is referring to the extreme hard-line Brexit Tories i.e Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg. I don't believe he was saying all Brexit voters are odious. Just the ones which seem to be hell bent on creating a right wing nationalist Britain, which I for one find the idea of repulsive.

Agreed - Brexit voters can be many things. Some are indeed xenophobic nationalists and the term odious is appropriately applied to them. Others are simply misguided - lied to during a campaign where truth, quiet consideration and reasoned debate was a rarity. What is certainly the case is that we are not a society at peace with itself.
In a world where nationalism and populism is gaining traction in many countries, foreign policy is becoming more bellicose across the globe (eg Trump, Putin, Erdewan, Kim Jung Un), where trade wars are breaking out, inequality is widening and human rights are increasingly marginalised I don't have optimism that our politicians have the vision or drive to steer our country to better things.

What the world needs is tolerance, understanding, cooperation, civility and compassion and I don't see much of this reflected in Brexit.

Sorry, but they were not lied to. The leaflet sent to all voters by the government clearly pointed out what leaving meant. Not in the single market and not in the customs union. A possibility of years of hardship before things got better. The ability to strike up trade deals with the world rather than be tied into EU regulations.

This belongs in Cakestop and not here. I'll be reporting it for removal to there.

But that leaflet wasn't all they were exposed to was it, the infamous £350m a week to the NHS and other purely speculative and unsubstantiated 'information' played a part. One thing I would say is that these people were predisposed to accepting these lies and confirmation bias played a big part in their decision.

Pross

verylonglegs wrote:

Must be the silly season for this kind of thing, the local paper round here has been running an online poll for the last week asking if there should be death by dangerous cycling law for cyclists that hit pedestrians. Cue the usual comments section packed with stuff like 'they should all be taxed and insured' etc etc. Have no idea why they focused on the cyclists killing pedestrians though, is that more a handful of cases per year?

I've been trying to look up the stats, there was a bit of a fuss in 2016 with articles such as 'number of pedestrian casualties after being hit by cyclists doubles' but that year there were 3 fatalities and around 100 serious injuries so we are talking small numbers, several other years had no fatalities and the important thing to note is that the stats do not apportion blame so it could well be that in the majority of cases a pedestrian has walked into a cycle lane to cause the collision (walking through Bristol this morning I was following a guy texting as he walked who walked straight across the cycleway without even noticing the bikes and then continued to weave in and out of it completely oblivious to whether anything was passing). Interestingly in the 5 years from 2011-2016 there was 1 cyclist killed in a collision with a pedestrian as well so maybe there should be an offence for causing death by careless walking (5 cyclists were also killed in that time period in collisions with other cyclists).

Realistically I would have thought that the manslaughter laws could be used in cases where cyclists (or pedestrians) have caused a death by acting in a negligent manner rather than targetting specific groups. I'd stick causing death by careless / dangerous driving in that category to so everyone is equal and if you cause a death by your actions you are culpable with the sentencing depending on the level of negligence involved (which is effectively what they are doing with death by careless v death by dangerous in any case).

rolf_f

More pedestrians are killed by cows than cyclists. Not sure what legislation that implies we need......

coopster_the_1st

Stueys wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Svetty wrote:

SJH76 wrote:

Sorry to interrupt, but that's not what he said. He is referring to the extreme hard-line Brexit Tories i.e Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg. I don't believe he was saying all Brexit voters are odious. Just the ones which seem to be hell bent on creating a right wing nationalist Britain, which I for one find the idea of repulsive.

Agreed - Brexit voters can be many things. Some are indeed xenophobic nationalists and the term odious is appropriately applied to them. Others are simply misguided - lied to during a campaign where truth, quiet consideration and reasoned debate was a rarity. What is certainly the case is that we are not a society at peace with itself.
In a world where nationalism and populism is gaining traction in many countries, foreign policy is becoming more bellicose across the globe (eg Trump, Putin, Erdewan, Kim Jung Un), where trade wars are breaking out, inequality is widening and human rights are increasingly marginalised I don't have optimism that our politicians have the vision or drive to steer our country to better things.

What the world needs is tolerance, understanding, cooperation, civility and compassion and I don't see much of this reflected in Brexit.

Sorry, but they were not lied to. The leaflet sent to all voters by the government clearly pointed out what leaving meant. Not in the single market and not in the customs union. A possibility of years of hardship before things got better. The ability to strike up trade deals with the world rather than be tied into EU regulations.

This belongs in Cakestop and not here. I'll be reporting it for removal to there.

They weren't lied to? I seem to recall various things from the campaign - '350m a week for the NHS', 'a deal with the EU will be easy', to pick just a few. The whole leave campaign was effectively a fabrication, certainly no one can claim that that definition of Brexit, and hence what people were actually voting for, was clearly defined by either side. The only fair process from this point would be a another vote on the actual Brexit deal when the outcome is clear.

And I would replace 'a possibility of years of hardship' with a certainity. The government's own figures show that there is no post Brexit outcome where the UK economy isn't adversely impacted in the short to mid-term.

Yawn.

Those who lost cannot see that their side were intentionally making stuff up and as above the losers are still repeating the lies.

There is a thread already on this forum for this stuff, although don't bother repeating the economic lies over there as that is an argument already lost.