Chris Froome salbutamol/Tour merged threads

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  • dolan_driver
    dolan_driver Posts: 831
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Personally I didn't care who wins the tour. I've always wanted to see a competitive race. However now I want Froome to win and keep on winning. It'll be the best way to stick two fingers up at the haters who IMHO are trying to destroy the sport.

    I'm with you on that. So many would be sickened to see Froome in yellow in Paris.

    There appears to be more evidence to suggest Froome is an exceptional athlete as opposed to being an expert doper. He is operating in the most tested era in cycling and still he wins like the great champions of the past.

    DD.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,611
    TailWindHome wrote:
    It's a reasonable assumption that Froome wasn't able to reproduce the test result in his own testing.

    We can assume this by it's absence from the WADA statement.

    The alternatives are that they didn't try to reproduce it, reproduced it but omitted from their defense or reproduced it, included it in their defense and WADA haven't mentioned it.

    My reading of the WADA statement is that they put forward a case that it would not be possible to recreate the exact situation (infection, 3 weeks of racing, weather etc.) but instead demonstrated that all those factors could reasonably explain the discrepancy and that WADAs medical experts concurred. I suspect the documented illness played an important role. It sounds like Sky learned from the Freeman issue and are keeping very detailed records of their riders.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,611
    PhilipPirrip wrote:
    Bumo_b wrote:
    ...as the effects of the heat and climbing of the last 50km took their effect I peed deep purple...
    Was there any smoke on the water?

    :lol:
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,611
    Salsiccia1 wrote:
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jul/05/team-sky-tour-de-france-rival-education-first-chris-froome-jonathan-vaughters

    I'm seriously considering not watching the Tour this year. I don't think I'll be able to stand the shit that Froome and Sky are going to get from the wankers on the side of the road.

    There goes Vaughters position as a poster boy over at The Clinic.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,106
    PhilipPirrip wrote:
    Bumo_b wrote:
    ...as the effects of the heat and climbing of the last 50km took their effect I peed deep purple...
    Was there any smoke on the water?

    Superb!
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,994
    Cycling podcast doing a good bit on what was going on in the tour 10 years ago.

    Piepoli, Dueñas, Beltrán, Ricco, Schumacher, Kohl all being done for EPO varients. Fofonov tested positive too. Valverde getting nicked on the Italian border leading to his 2 year ban. Boonen sitting it out for a cocaine positive.


    Stage 1 winner: Valverde
    stage 4 winner: Schumacher
    stage 6 winner: Ricco
    stage 9 winner: Ricco
    stage 10 winner: Piepoli
    stage 20: Schumacher

    KOM and third place on podium overall: Kohl.

    Heady days.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,994
    I remember being on holiday in Figac and waiting to see the Tour go by later that week.

    I walked into the newsagents who had the cycling on to find the result for the stage 4 TT.

    I saw Schumacher was winning and in my best french I pointed at his baldly head and, in my best French, shouted "il fait dopage".

    Newsagents wasn't impressed.

    When the positive test came out my dad went "bl00dy hell Rick, how did you spot that one?"
    _
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,723
    davidof wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    The problem I have is that the President of the UCI is a slick career politician who is known to have ambitions beyond cycling.
    This is just a stepping stone to greater positions. He was due to stand for the French Senate until it became clear that support for traditional parties had collapsed - he's with the right leaning UMP of Sarkosky and Hollande.
    Everything he does is about the French base. He may well have sanctioned the leak himself.

    Hollande was general secretary of the French Socialist Party before becoming president.

    David Lappartient is the mayor of Sarzeau for Les Républicains, the mainstream center right French party. He's not going to rise much above that politically, maybe a senate seat as you suggested, perhaps minister of sports. He has a number of other low level political jobs which must rake in quite a bit of cash in total.

    I count 4 political jobs currently plus the UCI, so 5 jobs in total. I wonder how he has time for it all?

    This reminds me of Paul West's boss in A Year In The Merde. Always looking for the next situation to exploit to further his burgeoning political career
  • Bumo_b
    Bumo_b Posts: 211
    No "smoke on the water", I was going to finish "dead or alive". In the end I finished "on top of the world"
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,194
    davidof wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    The problem I have is that the President of the UCI is a slick career politician who is known to have ambitions beyond cycling.
    This is just a stepping stone to greater positions. He was due to stand for the French Senate until it became clear that support for traditional parties had collapsed - he's with the right leaning UMP of Sarkosky and Hollande.
    Everything he does is about the French base. He may well have sanctioned the leak himself.

    Hollande was general secretary of the French Socialist Party before becoming president.

    David Lappartient is the mayor of Sarzeau for Les Républicains, the mainstream center right French party. He's not going to rise much above that politically, maybe a senate seat as you suggested, perhaps minister of sports. He has a number of other low level political jobs which must rake in quite a bit of cash in total.

    I count 4 political jobs currently plus the UCI, so 5 jobs in total. I wonder how he has time for it all?
    Yeah, of course Hollande is a socialist. I got that wrong.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • kfinlay
    kfinlay Posts: 763
    Froome writes in 'Le Monde'

    https://www.mandmdirect.com/01/details/ ... gLxZvD_BwE
    Kev

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  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,689
    kfinlay wrote:
    Froome writes in 'Le Monde'

    https://www.mandmdirect.com/01/details/ ... gLxZvD_BwE

    Bling!
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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,194
    kfinlay wrote:
    Froome writes in 'Le Monde'

    https://www.mandmdirect.com/01/details/ ... gLxZvD_BwE
    I hope you didn't buy those.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • kfinlay
    kfinlay Posts: 763
    ha ha wrong link somehow saved!!! - didn't buy them - my son is into his trainers and had sent the link to him.

    here's the correct link
    https://www.teamsky.com/article/chris-f ... n-le-monde
    Kev

    Summer Bike: Colnago C60
    Winter Bike: Vitus Alios
    MTB: 1997 GT Karakorum
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,106
    The French view Froome as the English view Maradonna
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,194
    TailWindHome wrote:
    The French view Froome as the English view Maradonna
    Maradonna definitely was/is on drugs though. Boat loads of them.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Except Froome isn't an on road or drugs cheat.
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    kfinlay wrote:
    ha ha wrong link somehow saved!!! - didn't buy them - my son is into his trainers and had sent the link to him.

    here's the correct link
    https://www.teamsky.com/article/chris-f ... n-le-monde

    The few people who have posted comments on Le Monde are largely unconvinced by this, though there are a few supporters.As ever, weather for or against people aren't going to change their opinions.
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Ross Tucker has put up his op-ed on Twitter, & basically it all comes down to the fact he doesn't believe how Froome can transform from a mediocre rider to tour winner since joining Sky. That is the sum total of his evidence

    What a prick!
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,194
    kleinstroker wrote:
    Ross Tucker has put up his op-ed on Twitter, & basically it all comes down to the fact he doesn't believe how Froome can transform from a mediocre rider to tour winner since joining Sky. That is the sum total of his evidence
    And that's the problem. They had him pegged as a nobody, when he just wasn't. In 2008 he was viewed by British Cycling an outstanding talent. In his book he reproduces a memo written by Rod Ellingworth setting out medium and long term goals. One is to come top 5 in the Tour in 3-5 years.
    However, lots of things went wrong and it took some time to work out for him. But the likes of Tucker never saw any of this. They just saw some results sheets on PCS.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,115
    Daniel B wrote:
    kfinlay wrote:
    Froome writes in 'Le Monde'

    https://www.mandmdirect.com/01/details/ ... gLxZvD_BwE

    Bling!
    ad15273_1_cloudzoom.jpg

    Was planning to spend my lunchtime working out what the pun was (my French isn't great). Will have to find something less intellectual. Reading about football, perhaps...
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,106
    RichN95 wrote:
    kleinstroker wrote:
    Ross Tucker has put up his op-ed on Twitter, & basically it all comes down to the fact he doesn't believe how Froome can transform from a mediocre rider to tour winner since joining Sky. That is the sum total of his evidence
    And that's the problem. They had him pegged as a nobody, when he just wasn't. In 2008 he was viewed by British Cycling an outstanding talent. In his book he reproduces a memo written by Rod Ellingworth setting out medium and long term goals. One is to come top 5 in the Tour in 3-5 years.
    However, lots of things went wrong and it took some time to work out for him. But the likes of Tucker never saw any of this. They just saw some results sheets on PCS.

    Interesting, except Froome wrote the memo not Ellingworth and it includes the line "No idols as they only test positive"

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zur ... mo&f=false
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    RichN95 wrote:
    However, lots of things went wrong and it took some time to work out for him. But the likes of Tucker never saw any of this. They just saw some results sheets on PCS.

    Indeed.

    You look at Froome's first 2 GT's. 83rd and then 36'th

    Dumoulin : 41st and 33rd

    Yet some others are up near top 10 right away.

    There isn't a right or wrong way. There are different ways
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • larkim
    larkim Posts: 2,477
    RichN95 wrote:
    kleinstroker wrote:
    Ross Tucker has put up his op-ed on Twitter, & basically it all comes down to the fact he doesn't believe how Froome can transform from a mediocre rider to tour winner since joining Sky. That is the sum total of his evidence
    And that's the problem. They had him pegged as a nobody, when he just wasn't. In 2008 he was viewed by British Cycling an outstanding talent. In his book he reproduces a memo written by Rod Ellingworth setting out medium and long term goals. One is to come top 5 in the Tour in 3-5 years.
    However, lots of things went wrong and it took some time to work out for him. But the likes of Tucker never saw any of this. They just saw some results sheets on PCS.
    Tucker's view is so depressing. I know it might seem naive to imagine that with the right focus and direction a "nobody" can become a world beater, but surely if sport is about anything it's about those sorts of possibilities. Froome and Farah both share that same stigma - you weren't good enough in your early pro career to be as good as you are now - despite as juniors both demonstrating that glimpse of potential. For both it needed them to do something different (and for that, don't read doping!) to unlock their potential. Sky don't hire nobodies, Alberto Salazar doesn't recruit overseas also-rans - they saw the untapped potential and found the right solution to sort it out. Froome could have ended up as a marvellous domestique, still worthy of a place within the team, but instead is maxing out.

    In the absence of evidence that demonstrates cheating, why just assume that being marginally (but consistently) better than your rivals is due to anything other than natural variability?

    Its funny because if anyone actually managed to beat Froome, Tucker et al would not have their suspicions. Which makes no logical sense whatsoever (e.g. "Porte said it correctly" - so we know who Tucker believes in and who he doesn't).
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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,194
    TailWindHome wrote:

    Interesting, except Froome wrote the memo not Ellingworth and it includes the line "No idols as they only test positive"

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zur ... mo&f=false
    It says "(Memo sent to me by Rod Ellingworth)". Only someone from BC would have the Commie Games as a goal.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,194
    iainf72 wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    However, lots of things went wrong and it took some time to work out for him. But the likes of Tucker never saw any of this. They just saw some results sheets on PCS.

    Indeed.

    You look at Froome's first 2 GT's. 83rd and then 36'th

    Dumoulin : 41st and 33rd

    Yet some others are up near top 10 right away.

    There isn't a right or wrong way. There are different ways
    The thing is Froome made a GT top ten in his fourth season. Of the 18 GT winners since 2006 only Valverde, Aru, Schleck and Sastre did it quicker.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,106
    RichN95 wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:

    Interesting, except Froome wrote the memo not Ellingworth and it includes the line "No idols as they only test positive"

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zur ... mo&f=false
    It says "(Memo sent to me by Rod Ellingworth)". Only someone from BC would have the Commie Games as a goal.

    It says "(Memo sent by me to Rod Ellingworth)"
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,194
    TailWindHome wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:

    Interesting, except Froome wrote the memo not Ellingworth and it includes the line "No idols as they only test positive"

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zur ... mo&f=false
    It says "(Memo sent to me by Rod Ellingworth)". Only someone from BC would have the Commie Games as a goal.

    It says "(Memo sent by me to Rod Ellingworth)"
    Oh, yeah, You're right.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    I'm not going to comment on Ross Accusing People of Doping With Dodgy Science is My Stock and Trade Tucker, but I am going to say, woah, those trainers are Fu-u-ugly!
    Correlation is not causation.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,194
    Some stuff from the UCI. I'm not sure it tells us that much.

    http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/respons ... ng-froome/
    Twitter: @RichN95

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