Nailing your colours to the mast

slowbike

Commercial Sportives can raise a lot of emotion, both within and outside the cycling community.
Commercial Closed Road Sportives take that to the next level.

We have RL100 every year - Many Surrey residents complain. We had Velo Birmingham last year and this year we've got Velo South.

Well - there's a facebook group dedicated to "Stop Velo South" and they're discussing ways to interrupt not only the event, but any cyclist deigning to ride any part of the route.
Now, I've just seen a photo of a poster in a popular village shop - popular with Cyclists - proposing events which would disrupt the flow of traffic - on the day of the Velo South - now, it could be tongue in cheek - but somehow I doubt it. What I don't get is why a village store, that is usually very busy with large cycling groups, would advertise what is essentially anti-cycling events - granted, not every cyclist that frequents that shop would be doing the Velo South or even agrees with running closed roads, but many will and many will see it as an attack on fair process.

hantstooflat

Unbelievable, let's be clear, this isn't a part of the country that "suffers" from many, if any, closed road events. My club rides these roads most Sundays and I'm often out most weekends and I can't remember the last time I came across roads closed for anything other than flooding or road works. Even up around Goodwood (mostly single carriageway) during big racing and motorsport events. This is just a knee jerk reaction from the minority of selfish idiots who happen to live in and around Chichester. Probably the same people who complained about cyclists using some of the quieter city centre (not pedestrianised) streets due to safety concerns. I'd rather share those roads (as a pedestrian) with cyclists than the speeding buses!

These people are not trapped, they are perfectly capable of finding alternative routes as they do every time there is a shunt or roadworks on the local roads. This is not about closed roads it is anti-cyclist. Whether or not they disrupt the event they'll be back in the cars the next day close passing, shouting out their windows and shooting cyclists with pellet guns.

peat

I am uneasy with the entire notion of closing roads for a sportive. It's not like closing another public amenity (swimming pool/library) for a private event. It does cause disruption. Comparing it to closing a road for repair/betterment is not smart. There is eventual benefit at the end of them, not this event.

That also goes for mass participation events on open roads too.

All that said, i'm riding Velothon Wales next weekend....and looking forward to it.

imafatman

I used to live on a road where the London Marathon would pass through. It was a mild inconvenience. If I wanted to drive the next day I'd have to go park my car in a car park and walk to get it.

Boo hoo, one day of my life. Hardly the end of the world. Christ these farking noddy nimbys wind me up. No life arseholes with nothing better to do. You can guarantee it will be mostly the unemployed; house wives and the retired. The working folk will be quite happy to have a day when they can tell their other half that they can't go shopping

lettingthedaysgoby

That they cause disruption I think is a given.

But it’s one day, and with enough notice - as is clearly the case for Velo South*, is something that can easily be planned for and avoided.




*arugably this is what they got wrong with the Birmingham event

slowbike

HantsTooFLat wrote:

Unbelievable, let's be clear, this isn't a part of the country that "suffers" from many, if any, closed road events.

Well - Goodwood events shut the Lavant Straight quite often - and then there's the running races - effectively closing off East Lavant - but yes - most of the area isn't closed roads for any events.

HantsTooFLat wrote:

These people are not trapped, they are perfectly capable of finding alternative routes as they do every time there is a shunt or roadworks on the local roads. This is not about closed roads it is anti-cyclist. Whether or not they disrupt the event they'll be back in the cars the next day close passing, shouting out their windows and shooting cyclists with pellet guns.

Well - swings and roundabouts here - because the event passes through many villages where there is one road in/out it does effectively close off the village for the duration of the event - and as you get towards the latter part of the course, the closures are for a longer period - Compton will be closed between 0915 and 1830 - there isn't much option for parking your car just off the course as it's a few miles down or up the road to get a side road that goes away from the route.

I can understand residents concerns - although some do seem to be getting a bit hetup about something that they can easily avoid. I don't think the organisers have helped a lot either - despite being "cut off", we've had no official notification (not that we're worried) but more importantly - there's no indication of where the "official crossing places" are going to be - so we (our neighbours) can't even start thinking about alternative routes.
Unfortunately, the hetup residents are just turning anti-cyclist and will endeavour to spoil any cyclists ride - be that on the day or not.

slowbike

imafatman wrote:

I used to live on a road where the London Marathon would pass through. It was a mild inconvenience. If I wanted to drive the next day I'd have to go park my car in a car park and walk to get it.

yup - that's ok in an urban area where you have loads of alternatives - the country folk affected may have to park their cars a few miles away - with no footpath to get there...

svetty

Peat wrote:

I am uneasy with the entire notion of closing roads for a sportive. It's not like closing another public amenity (swimming pool/library) for a private event. It does cause disruption. Comparing it to closing a road for repair/betterment is not smart. There is eventual benefit at the end of them, not this event.

That also goes for mass participation events on open roads too.

All that said, i'm riding Velothon Wales next weekend....and looking forward to it.

So if you were French you'd ban the Tour de France?

slowbike

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

That they cause disruption I think is a given.

But it’s one day, and with enough notice - as is clearly the case for Velo South*, is something that can easily be planned for and avoided.




*arugably this is what they got wrong with the Birmingham event

You can plan - if you know the details - if you've just got sketchy outline of closures with instructions that "you cannot cross the course" then it starts getting a bit trickier - as it's a circular route over quite a large area, it is encompassing the villages & towns for quite a long period. You can take some educated guesses - eg A286 in Fernhurst won't be closed - the route goes over it, not along it - but down in Lavant, the route goes along it for 100 yards - is the whole road going to be closed for that or are they doing 1 lane closure?

There was a letter published in West Sussex today paper suggesting that Chichester residents wouldn't be able to attend Church in Lavant due to the road closure - ok, assume they can't walk (there is a footpath) or ride their bikes (there's a cycle path that goes underneath the route) then the next option would be to cross the route by car - but without knowing the official crossing points you can't even start to consider if it's an option.

slowbike

Svetty wrote:

Peat wrote:

I am uneasy with the entire notion of closing roads for a sportive. It's not like closing another public amenity (swimming pool/library) for a private event. It does cause disruption. Comparing it to closing a road for repair/betterment is not smart. There is eventual benefit at the end of them, not this event.

That also goes for mass participation events on open roads too.

All that said, i'm riding Velothon Wales next weekend....and looking forward to it.

So if you were French you'd ban the Tour de France?

Bit different - that's a professional race - their rolling blocks are minimal (except for the host towns) - all the riders are through within the space of an hour - even with the preceding Caravan it's a few hours at most ..

peat

Svetty wrote:

Peat wrote:

So if you were French you'd ban the Tour de France?

Bottom of the barrel riposte, that. Come on.

hantstooflat

Slowbike wrote:

Well - Goodwood events shut the Lavant Straight quite often - and then there's the running races - effectively closing off East Lavant - but yes - most of the area isn't closed roads for any events.

You obviously live closer to the affected areas so I'll defer to you on that one and hold off on a debate of rarely vs quite often. A question therefore to ask is how often to the locals attempt to disrupt these Goodwood and running events?

slowbike

HantsTooFLat wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Well - Goodwood events shut the Lavant Straight quite often - and then there's the running races - effectively closing off East Lavant - but yes - most of the area isn't closed roads for any events.

You obviously live closer to the affected areas so I'll defer to you on that one and hold off on a debate of rarely vs quite often. A question therefore to ask is how often to the locals attempt to disrupt these Goodwood and running events?

Just a tad closer One of the running races "disrupted" my ride the other evening - ok, I stopped, checked with a marshal, rode up the pavement for 100 yards before going through East Lavant to Kennel Hill rather than going round by the circuit road where they were running ... 1/2 dozen to dozen times a year? Closure times vary depending on the event - the running one is usually for an hour or two ..

They can be inconvenient - but most of the time we just work around it, usually missing the traffic because we just go the other way. The most annoying issues I tend to face is that during the motor events the local roads become a race track for those (I assume) spectating the circuit race, then having a spin around the local area driving like they're racing drivers...

supermurph09

I honestly don't see the need for closed roads sportives, what do people actually get out of them? The Eroica sportive was on a few weeks ago, (not closed roads) but you had riders 3 and 4 abreast no real care for what is happening around them, I don't see this behaviour on club rides or normal larger groups. It was actually difficult to get round them on my bike, lord knows how motorists felt, or were left feeling. No doubt even more angered by the "bl00dy cyclists".

slowbike

Supermurph09 wrote:

I honestly don't see the need for closed roads sportives, what do people actually get out of them?

A nice, uncomplicated ride - often on roads that you wouldn't ride, even as a group ride.
ie Etap Loch Ness - comes down the north side of the Loch - it's a dangerous road, I believe there is a cycle track - but anyway, not a road I'd like to ride down - closed (for the morning)... the route round the south of the Loch is lanes and perfectly ok to cycle - but being closed you don't need to worry about oncoming traffic, so you can open the taps a little more...
Ride London - riding through central London without the stop/start nature of all the traffic lights (save for the official crossing points) is very enjoyable.

Velo South? Not sure the roads are really worth closing just for the ride - but 15000 participants is a lot to squeeze down the lanes and they probably needed that many to make it worth while hiring Goodwood for the day. Open road Sportives tend to have a lot less numbers and even then many locals get annoyed with the volume of riders passing their door - and there's quite a few sportives in the area... Mind you - the A285 is a dangerous bit of road - so 10 miles of that closed would be nice

peat

Interestingly(?), I requested to join the fb group. I stated that I was a cyclist but against such events (i'm conflicted, at best...). I have a notification that my request was approved, but I can't view any of the content. So, i guess another moderator saw my profile picture (me on a bike) and decided i was a trouble maker.

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

Velo South? Not sure the roads are really worth closing just for the ride - but 15000 participants is a lot to squeeze down the lanes and they probably needed that many to make it worth while hiring Goodwood for the day.

Yes, but you don't need to hire Goodwood for the day... Goodwood is a place of no significance to anyone who loves cycling... I would argue that if you love cycling, you should hate Goodwood, if no other reason, because it's full of axseholes who drive to Goodwood as they were driving inside Goodwood. I could name a few places of some significance... Herne Hill velodrome could be one... probably not suited to 15K participants, but equally notwhere near as expensive.

I don't buy into the argument that I need to close the roads becasue I have 15K riders, because that's the number I need to justify hiring Goodwood... it's a bollox argument. it's a circle...

The reality i that there are loads of sportives in the South Downs already and for this one to stand out and attract the number of EARLY entires that allow to make a GOOD PROFIT, they need to be able to offer the pull of closed roads. Goodwood is probably a good place to park a lot of cars... seeing that mamils typically need to drive to the start of a sportive, even if they are staying in a Travelodge 5 miles away.

davep1

I haven't seen the "Stop Velosouth" group, but have seen the posts on a Henfield area FB page. All of them negative, all of them saying they haven't been given much notice, and this was a few weeks ago. The landlady of a pub in a Partridge Green has a big wedding on the day - although it's a Sunday - and it looks like the road will be closed for 6 hours. It's a third of the way round, seems a long time to me to close the road. A lot of other complaints are to do with horsey folk who won't be able to get to their animals on the day. One of them complained it was unfair that one kind of sport was stopping her do her sport...
I am doing the event with work so am chuffed to bits. I ride these roads all the time, so haven't had to wrestle my conscience about paying to do it. I hope it goes well, not sure what to expect though.

slowbike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Velo South? Not sure the roads are really worth closing just for the ride - but 15000 participants is a lot to squeeze down the lanes and they probably needed that many to make it worth while hiring Goodwood for the day.

Yes, but you don't need to hire Goodwood for the day... Goodwood is a place of no significance to anyone who loves cycling... I would argue that if you love cycling, you should hate Goodwood, if no other reason, because it's full of axseholes who drive to Goodwood as they were driving inside Goodwood. I could name a few places of some significance... Herne Hill velodrome could be one... probably not suited to 15K participants, but equally notwhere near as expensive.

I don't buy into the argument that I need to close the roads becasue I have 15K riders, because that's the number I need to justify hiring Goodwood... it's a bollox argument. it's a circle...

The reality i that there are loads of sportives in the South Downs already and for this one to stand out and attract the number of EARLY entires that allow to make a GOOD PROFIT, they need to be able to offer the pull of closed roads. Goodwood is probably a good place to park a lot of cars... seeing that mamils typically need to drive to the start of a sportive, even if they are staying in a Travelodge 5 miles away.

You do need a venue for the day - and Goodwood motor circuit is a good venue with lots of facilities and a nice track to ride around - there's regular bike racing on there and other cycle events as well as motor ones. No, it's not Herne Hill - but then that's just a bit far north!

What comes first - the venue, the numbers or the closed roads? - I'd say it's a combination of all 3... there are a number of 100 mile sportives starting from the Chichester area during the year and there are loads of clubs doing plenty of mileage on the same roads. There's plenty of bad driving around the area too - so a closed road sportive is quite appealing.

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

What comes first - the venue, the numbers or the closed roads? - I'd say it's a combination of all 3...

Not a combination of the three... there is a clear hierarchy:

The profit comes first... which needs the numbers... which can only be obtained by closing the roads... big numbers require a venue...

I am also sure part of the cost of hiring a venue can be recouped by charging vendors on the day... inevitably there will be a pointless "village" with pop up bars and shops and loud music

peat

Oh boy. I have made into the group now. It's not pretty.

Besides the, now common, suggestions that cyclists should 'run over'....*sigh*

They are getting their knickers in a twist over a post elsewhere on facebook of someone proposing to ride the route this weekend as training. Some posters encouraging others to get out and 'show them they won't be welcome' on the day of VS.

My sympathy for their plight has reduced.

slowbike

Peat wrote:

Oh boy. I have made into the group now. It's not pretty.
My sympathy for their plight has reduced.

Oh yes - they're all gleeful in thinking about ways they can disrupt the ride or other riders and up in arms about not being able to get out - and emergency services not being able to get in, despite the fact that the emergency services have been consulted and can't see an issue - I'd hazard a guess that it'll be quicker for emergency services to access places on route because it's closed roads - just cyclists and they're fairly easy to stop!

There are a one or two level headed posters on the campaign. There was a suggestion to make it Open road ... that'll be fun - 15000 riders effectively closes the road anyway.

awavey

Slowbike wrote:

Svetty wrote:

Peat wrote:

I am uneasy with the entire notion of closing roads for a sportive. It's not like closing another public amenity (swimming pool/library) for a private event. It does cause disruption. Comparing it to closing a road for repair/betterment is not smart. There is eventual benefit at the end of them, not this event.

That also goes for mass participation events on open roads too.

All that said, i'm riding Velothon Wales next weekend....and looking forward to it.

So if you were French you'd ban the Tour de France?

Bit different - that's a professional race - their rolling blocks are minimal (except for the host towns) - all the riders are through within the space of an hour - even with the preceding Caravan it's a few hours at most ..

that sounds more like the ToB with rolling road blocks, when TdF came through Yorkshire, the road was closed from 10ish at least I think,the riders didnt come through till mid afternoon 2-3pm,and I dont think the road reopened till 4pm. and it will be the same for the world championships, and last more than a day.

I think part of the issue that closed road sportives have to get across to people on the route is the concept of actually not being able to drive where you want to for 1 day a year isnt a bad thing at all, its a very good thing for all concerned, that local shops who Im sure are more than happy to take money from cyclists who visit, are against, shows how narrow minded they are, and ought to be named and shamed so we avoid them.They are just reacting to nimbyism as Im sure the 4 days of the Goodwood Festival of Speed in two weeks time, where no one will be able to use any road that goes near Goodwood in that time passes without any facebook agitation at all.

StillGoing

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

What comes first - the venue, the numbers or the closed roads? - I'd say it's a combination of all 3...

Not a combination of the three... there is a clear hierarchy:

The profit comes first... which needs the numbers... which can only be obtained by closing the roads... big numbers require a venue...

I am also sure part of the cost of hiring a venue can be recouped by charging vendors on the day... inevitably there will be a pointless "village" with pop up bars and shops and loud music

Is your real name Victor Meldrew? Ban fun.

surfercyclist

I live in Pembrokeshire, right on the Tour of Pembs route and I've contacted the organisers requesting it become a closed road event. Unfortunately for me they said there are no plans for it to be closed road. My reasoning is why would I pay to ride on roads I do every time I go out on bike for free. If it were closed roads I'd happily pay a premium to have no cars.

This would disrupt local traffic(including me) but a price worth paying.

peat

awavey wrote:

that sounds more like the ToB with rolling road blocks, when TdF came through Yorkshire, the road was closed from 10ish at least I think,the riders didnt come through till mid afternoon 2-3pm,and I dont think the road reopened till 4pm. and it will be the same for the world championships, and last more than a day.

Those events have a bit of cache and could be argued to bring something to the community. A world class race passing through your town can boost tourism blah blah.

I fail to see how a thousands of nodders trickling through for 7hrs are going to benefit the local economy. The participants are unlikely to be stopping given there are food/water stops laid on elsewhere. I don't see it being anything other than a nuisance to locals.

side-track: When the ToB route came out and was coming through my parish one year, I let the girl who runs the local farm shop know as the route passed right by her premises. My thought being she could use it as a promotion 'come and watch the Tour of Britain here with tea and cake'. She rather misunderstood and after the event remarked to me that none of the riders stopped in at her shop and it was all a big waste of time. :?

EDIT: Unfinished sentence in italic.

slowbike

Peat wrote:

awavey wrote:

I fail to see how a thousands of nodders trickling through for 7hrs. The participants are unlikely to be stopping given there are food/water stops laid on elsewhere. I don't see it being anything other than a nuisance to locals.

You're right - a handful of participants may stop - but it's going to depend what sort of retailer it is - village shops most likely to see a bit of custom - especially if they stock spare inner tubes!

What you will get is the hangers on and spectators (not everyone is against it) - all out on the street (assuming it's not pouring with rain). Accommodation around the venue for quite a few miles is pretty much full - those coming with family will leave the family for the day - probably many to frequent Chichester.

That's just the weekend of the event - then you've got the weeks preceding where cyclists "practice" on and around the route - drawing some of those a bit further afield in to the area - and then there's the after affect where you get the return of the rider - probably with a few mates - to go and re-live that last climb ...

So for any village tea room or shop to publish a poster about disrupting a cycling event on one day may damage their trade far more than the potential loss on the single day of the event. I'll be looking for the poster when I go there next - and if it's up then I shall just ride on to a tea shop that is a little more tolerant .

cougie

Supermurph09 wrote:

I honestly don't see the need for closed roads sportives, what do people actually get out of them? The Eroica sportive was on a few weeks ago, (not closed roads) but you had riders 3 and 4 abreast no real care for what is happening around them

This sounds like a good reason to have closed road sportives ? Large numbers of cyclists and there may be a sense of strength in numbers.

I've only done one closed road event. Even then I didn't trust the roads to be fully closed so you still go with caution round bends - and rightly too. We did find a couple of cars drivinginyo us.

I'd rather do smaller events on quieter roads.

peat

That STOP group is really good value. Wilfull belligerence - HOW AM I GOING TO GET TO WORK? - Gets solution suggestion from organiser - HOW DARE THEY TELL ME WHERE I CAN AND CAN'T DRIVE/PARK MY CAR?
also the person who 'delivers eggs' on a Sunday and can't possibly re-organise it with only 3 months notice.

And then the thinly veiled "We don't hate cyclists, we hate the vent organisation" message followed by multiple posts deriding cyclists.

ugo.santalucia

philthy3 wrote:

Is your real name Victor Meldrew? Ban fun.

Where is the fun bit? Is it where they give you free mini samples of their latest protein bar and they use words like "recovery" and "boost" and "power"...?

Is it the loud speakers mashing your ears with the tunes of teenagers sexual anxieties? Is it where you get to queue 15 minutes to get charged 6 quid for a plastic pint of lager and 7 for a frozen re-grilled burger? Maybe it is having a poo in a fetid portaloo?

gethinceri

I've never experienced any of those things on a sportive.