Cycle To Work scheme + noob = mind blown

1se7en

Heya, happy friday.

Just got made permanent at work and they said I can get a cycle to work scheme and I got a few questions, bare with me they may be stupid questions haha.

Firstly background: raced Motocross most my life, few years ago got injured and have been basically recovering since, finally now I feel like im recovered and have the itch to get back on the bike but missus wont allow it and space has been downgraded so next best thing is mountain bike which I have not had one since I was about 10. Im 30 now, 180cm, 75kg.

1. If I use the cycle to work scheme, do I actually have to cycle to work or can I use it just to purchase a bike to play after work/weekends? (probably stupid question)

2. Please help me distinguish a list of whats better between a whole bunch of these bikes, I have cyclescheme.co.uk so have a few options but honestly not sure what to pick as im just starting out with this, not sure if to go to the full £1000 or go cheaper.

Here are a few options I like the look of ranging from £500-£1000.

Calibre Line 10: http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/calibre-lin ... ke-p414112
Calibre Bossnut v2 (same price as bossnut???): http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/calibre-bos ... ke-p403001
Calibre Bossnut: http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/calibre-bos ... ke-p347143

BMC Teamelite 03: https://www.evanscycles.com/bmc-teameli ... e-EV302730
Jamis Dakar A2: https://www.evanscycles.com/jamis-dakar ... e-EV306022
Norco Charger 1: https://www.evanscycles.com/norco-charg ... e-EV306501
Norco Fluid 2: https://www.evanscycles.com/norco-fluid ... e-EV306510

Then I read that the Vitus Nucleas was decent: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitu ... prod159723

So man there is so much choice in that range and I honestly feel lost with what would be best value out of those (or if anyone knows other brands that could work on the cyclescheme with better value, id happily take a look). Some I see are full suspension, Others only the front. I dont really care too much about suspension. I suspect ill be riding trails with some hills, some tracks with maybe jumps if I can find any, maybe a little bit of general riding but mostly ill find tracks and trails to go ride.

Thanks for the advice. Cheers. 1se7en

mrb123

To answer question 1, no. How would they ever know anyway? I don't think the Cycle to Work police are patrolling the streets just yet!

tallpaul_s

Yeah you don't actually have to cycle to work to use the scheme, it's mostly about getting people on bikes in general.

1se7en

cheers for the response, thats what I pretty much thought haha.

Now just to sort out the bike. I guess the question is, which bike would be best bang for buck out of the ones I listed and provide a bit of future proofing or a solid base to upgrade.

1se7en

double posted somehow. :roll:

joebristol

If you’re from a motocross background you’ll be used to suspension I’d imagine.

For £1k there are a couple of suspension bikes that are ok - the newest Bossnut you can get (not the v1 which had issues with some batches) is generally regarded as one of the best options for £1k. It has pretty modern geometry and good spec for the price.

With hardtails the Calibre option also recently won a beat bike in test. I’m guessing it’ll be lighter than the Bossnut and a bit livelier.

If you can test ride some bikes first it may help you decide - at this stage between full suspension and hardtail. I’m not sure if gooutdoors do proper tests but if you could test something from another manufacturer at a similar cost it would give you an idea.

billycool

Based on what you want to ride, you could get a decent HT or entry level FS bike.

My mate is ex-MX and his first bike was an £800 Rockhopper HT. Once he'd mastered that (6-9 months), he also bought a Whyte T-130 FS bike.

Due to being MX at heart, he soon realised that he preferred the DH/jump type riding and the FS bike suited that better. He was naturally good at jumping etc and just a bit more `full on`. I'm more XC orientated (paths/trails etc) and rarely get off the ground. He goes to uplift days and doesn't pedal uphill so much.

He still has his HT, although he did a few upgrades and changed it to Plus+ sized wheels. He's just about to sell it to fund a `better` HT.

The point is - your first bike might just get you into it, before you decide what you like and then buy something else in about 12 months. As you are new to MTB, it's hard to know what your `forever` bike might be or even whether you'll like it.

The Bossnut is a well recognised (and reviewed) entry level FS bike. The other HT's can all do a job.

Vitus (CRC own brand) are also very good. The HT's match your price point.

One thing my friend soon found out with MTB is that it's easier to hurt yourself than it is on MX. One of our first rides I told him to be careful "I'm fine kid, I've crashed MX loads of times - how difficult than this be...."

Famous last words. He clipped a tree root on the inside of a bend (rookie mistake - inside pedal was too low) , got airborne and fractured his hip on landing. Had to be rescued and fed gas/air.

He now realises that:

a) MTB's are less tolerant that MX bikes (they will bounce off stuff and eject rider a lot more easily)
b) Falling off really hurts (less protection)
c) he has to pedal up hills (can't just twist and burn)

So - I'd argue that any MTB will allwo you to give it a go and get into in.

If you go the HT route you might find that if you like jumping, you'll end up on a FS fairly quickly. Or get a FS and just enjoy the ride.

You'd get good experience with either and then develop from there to more bikes, more bling and less money.

'Cos that's the rules.

billycool

BillyCool wrote:

Based on what you want to ride, you could get a decent HT or entry level FS bike.

My mate is ex-MX and his first bike was an £800 Rockhopper HT. Once he'd mastered that (6-9 months), he also bought a Whyte T-130 FS bike.

Due to being MX at heart, he soon realised that he preferred the DH/jump type riding and the FS bike suited that better. He was naturally good at jumping etc and just a bit more `full on`. I'm more XC orientated (paths/trails etc) and rarely get off the ground. He goes to uplift days and doesn't pedal uphill so much.

He still has his HT, although he did a few upgrades and changed it to Plus+ sized wheels. He's just about to sell it to fund a `better` HT.

The point is - your first bike might just get you into it, before you decide what you like and then buy something else in about 12 months. As you are new to MTB, it's hard to know what your `forever` bike might be or even whether you'll like it.

The Bossnut is a well recognised (and reviewed) entry level FS bike. The other HT's can all do a job.

Vitus (CRC own brand) are also very good. The HT's match your price point.

One thing my friend soon found out with MTB is that it's easier to hurt yourself than it is on MX. One of our first rides I told him to be careful "I'm fine kid, I've crashed MX loads of times - how difficult than this be...."

Famous last words. He clipped a tree root on the inside of a bend (rookie mistake - inside pedal was too low) , got airborne and fractured his hip on landing. Had to be rescued and fed gas/air.

He now realises that:

a) MTB's are less tolerant that MX bikes (MTB's will bounce/fall over off stuff and eject rider a lot more easily)
b) Falling off really hurts (less protection)
c) He has to pedal up hills (can't just twist and burn)

So - I'd argue that any MTB will allow you to give it a go and get into in.

If you go the HT route you might find that if you like jumping, you'll end up on a FS fairly quickly. Or get a FS and just enjoy the ride.

You'd get good experience with either and then develop from there to more bikes, more bling and less money.

'Cos that's the rules.

1se7en

BillyCool wrote:

Based on what you want to ride, you could get a decent HT or entry level FS bike.

My mate is ex-MX and his first bike was an £800 Rockhopper HT. Once he'd mastered that (6-9 months), he also bought a Whyte T-130 FS bike.

Due to being MX at heart, he soon realised that he preferred the DH/jump type riding and the FS bike suited that better. He was naturally good at jumping etc and just a bit more `full on`. I'm more XC orientated (paths/trails etc) and rarely get off the ground. He goes to uplift days and doesn't pedal uphill so much.

One thing my friend soon found out with MTB is that it's easier to hurt yourself than it is on MX. One of our first rides I told him to be careful "I'm fine kid, I've crashed MX loads of times - how difficult than this be....".

Cheers, appreciate the really detailed response, some of your points really hit home and were part of my thoughts haha. How hard can it be, guess I now already know before I go not to underestimate it because yea Ive crashed MX loads of times although also with some fair injuries but definitely wont underestimate MTB now. great point!

I do probably feel I would enjoy jumping loads down hill stuff but I also enjoyed enduro's on the MX bike and trail rides so was a bit of a mix for me and I wonder how much ill get to really do jumps and down hill stuff. Id guess most of my time would be just general trails (red and blue) for overall fitness and just a bit of fun, id get a road bike for fitness but honestly I just don't trust cars and potholes etc so would rather spend my time in the forest.

Ill probably look at a HT for the meantime, probably a good base to learn on then see what kind of environments I find around me and if it leans more towards jumps and downhill type stuff then ill go seek out a FS bike thats a bit more costly. I dont have an issue with spending the money if its something I truly get deep into but at this stage it would be just for a bit of fun and general fitness but you never know, once the bug bites its easy to get hooked.

billycool

1se7en wrote:

BillyCool wrote:

Based on what you want to ride, you could get a decent HT or entry level FS bike.

My mate is ex-MX and his first bike was an £800 Rockhopper HT. Once he'd mastered that (6-9 months), he also bought a Whyte T-130 FS bike.

Due to being MX at heart, he soon realised that he preferred the DH/jump type riding and the FS bike suited that better. He was naturally good at jumping etc and just a bit more `full on`. I'm more XC orientated (paths/trails etc) and rarely get off the ground. He goes to uplift days and doesn't pedal uphill so much.

One thing my friend soon found out with MTB is that it's easier to hurt yourself than it is on MX. One of our first rides I told him to be careful "I'm fine kid, I've crashed MX loads of times - how difficult than this be....".

Cheers, appreciate the really detailed response, some of your points really hit home and were part of my thoughts haha. How hard can it be, guess I now already know before I go not to underestimate it because yea Ive crashed MX loads of times although also with some fair injuries but definitely wont underestimate MTB now. great point!

I do probably feel I would enjoy jumping loads down hill stuff but I also enjoyed enduro's on the MX bike and trail rides so was a bit of a mix for me and I wonder how much ill get to really do jumps and down hill stuff. Id guess most of my time would be just general trails (red and blue) for overall fitness and just a bit of fun, id get a road bike for fitness but honestly I just don't trust cars and potholes etc so would rather spend my time in the forest.

Ill probably look at a HT for the meantime, probably a good base to learn on then see what kind of environments I find around me and if it leans more towards jumps and downhill type stuff then ill go seek out a FS bike thats a bit more costly. I dont have an issue with spending the money if its something I truly get deep into but at this stage it would be just for a bit of fun and general fitness but you never know, once the bug bites its easy to get hooked.

I really like your attitude and approach to it. Quite refreshing. A lot of people just want the biggest FS bike with the longest travel possible!

I'm a big fan of `learning` MTB on a hardtail. It rewards you for riding smooth lines, reading the trail and good balance/body position. Whe you transition to a FS, you really appreciate it more and can get the best out of it.

I see quite a few `lazy` FS riders who let the bike just roll over stuff but their technique isn't the best. As an MX rider you'll have a good eye for for the trail and will probably carry a lot of speed anyway.

Starting on a HT and then deciding what you want to do is very sensible. Lots of good options. For trails and general fitness they are great. I've taken my 80mm front travel HT down BPW and Cwmcarn, so it can be done. I actually enjoy certain terrain more on my HT than my FS. If you then decide you want to go to the next level you'll be joining the n+1 club. One bike is never enough

Check out the Vitus bikes - they review well. One of the Norco HT bikes reviewed well but not sure if it's one of the ones you listed. You can get something very sensible for £800-£1000.

The Rookie

TallPaul_S wrote:

Yeah you don't actually have to cycle to work to use the scheme, it's mostly about getting people on bikes in general.

50% has to be too and from work, while I agree it’s unlikely to be checked, not doing so would be tax evasion and a criminal offence.

JGTR

BillyCool wrote:

1se7en wrote:

BillyCool wrote:

Based on what you want to ride, you could get a decent HT or entry level FS bike.

My mate is ex-MX and his first bike was an £800 Rockhopper HT. Once he'd mastered that (6-9 months), he also bought a Whyte T-130 FS bike.

Due to being MX at heart, he soon realised that he preferred the DH/jump type riding and the FS bike suited that better. He was naturally good at jumping etc and just a bit more `full on`. I'm more XC orientated (paths/trails etc) and rarely get off the ground. He goes to uplift days and doesn't pedal uphill so much.

One thing my friend soon found out with MTB is that it's easier to hurt yourself than it is on MX. One of our first rides I told him to be careful "I'm fine kid, I've crashed MX loads of times - how difficult than this be....".

Cheers, appreciate the really detailed response, some of your points really hit home and were part of my thoughts haha. How hard can it be, guess I now already know before I go not to underestimate it because yea Ive crashed MX loads of times although also with some fair injuries but definitely wont underestimate MTB now. great point!

I do probably feel I would enjoy jumping loads down hill stuff but I also enjoyed enduro's on the MX bike and trail rides so was a bit of a mix for me and I wonder how much ill get to really do jumps and down hill stuff. Id guess most of my time would be just general trails (red and blue) for overall fitness and just a bit of fun, id get a road bike for fitness but honestly I just don't trust cars and potholes etc so would rather spend my time in the forest.

Ill probably look at a HT for the meantime, probably a good base to learn on then see what kind of environments I find around me and if it leans more towards jumps and downhill type stuff then ill go seek out a FS bike thats a bit more costly. I dont have an issue with spending the money if its something I truly get deep into but at this stage it would be just for a bit of fun and general fitness but you never know, once the bug bites its easy to get hooked.

I really like your attitude and approach to it. Quite refreshing. A lot of people just want the biggest FS bike with the longest travel possible!

I'm a big fan of `learning` MTB on a hardtail. It rewards you for riding smooth lines, reading the trail and good balance/body position. Whe you transition to a FS, you really appreciate it more and can get the best out of it.

I see quite a few `lazy` FS riders who let the bike just roll over stuff but their technique isn't the best. As an MX rider you'll have a good eye for for the trail and will probably carry a lot of speed anyway.

Starting on a HT and then deciding what you want to do is very sensible. Lots of good options. For trails and general fitness they are great. I've taken my 80mm front travel HT down BPW and Cwmcarn, so it can be done. I actually enjoy certain terrain more on my HT than my FS. If you then decide you want to go to the next level you'll be joining the n+1 club. One bike is never enough

Check out the Vitus bikes - they review well. One of the Norco HT bikes reviewed well but not sure if it's one of the ones you listed. You can get something very sensible for £800-£1000.

Totally disagree with this advice. Get a FS if you can, they are more capable off road. If you get a HT you’ll be kicking yourself as soon as you go anywhere decent. Far FS are more comfortable, you get better traction and will allow you to push yourself more and ultimately have more fun, that is unless you specifically want a HT.

1se7en

YAY my certificate is finally here

So now I need to spend my money. I decided over the weekend to go try ride a few bikes but I injured my damn back again before the weekend and didnt get much time in the saddle. Been suffering with a bulged disc in my neck for the past year and the last 4 months its been great but last week in gym aggravated it again. SO in light of that i'm wondering if its better to opt in for an FS bike to help absorb some of the rough stuff or even if MTB can aggravate a bulged disc injury. I mean ok falling off will most likely aggravate it but im going to do my best not to crash in the beginning. Managed to try a Trek something or another HT and it was not so bad.

Looking around for some deals, I came across this.

https://www.cyclerepublic.com/ktm-lycan ... gJLUfD_BwE

Is that a decent bike/value for money compared to others?

JGTR

Full sus are more comfortable, having recently purchased a hardtail after riding a FS for years my back does suffer after riding the HT, granted the more I ride the more I’ll get used to it, probably.

1se7en

So I have rounded down my options to these. How do you judge the difference between them and the specs?

1st (probably my fav looking one) - https://www.cyclerepublic.com/ktm-lycan ... gJLUfD_BwE

2nd - https://www.cyclerepublic.com/bikes/mou ... -2016.html

3rd - http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/calibre-bos ... ke-p431792

4th - http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/calibre-bos ... ke-p403001 (guessing this one is the older version of the evo??)

5th - https://www.rutlandcycling.com/bikes/mo ... lue_454587

6th - https://www.evanscycles.com/jamis-dakar ... e-EV306022

Does anyone know of any others in this £1200 price range worth considering?

Appreciate all the help you guys have given.

keef66

The Rookie wrote:

TallPaul_S wrote:

Yeah you don't actually have to cycle to work to use the scheme, it's mostly about getting people on bikes in general.

50% has to be too and from work, while I agree it’s unlikely to be checked, not doing so would be tax evasion and a criminal offence.

The 50% use for commuting is technically correct, but I'm guessing that quite a large % of cycle to work bikes never make it to work. I have a lady colleague who has a cycle to work bike, but lives 50 miles from the office down the M11. I'm confident she's never cycled in to work. I've also heard of people using it to buy time trial bikes or carbon wheelsets, which isn't exactly in the spirit of the scheme either and probably requires the collusion of the employer's scheme administrator and / or a helpful retailer, but who cares?

Look at the bigger picture; if the scheme gets more people on bikes, in whatever way it has to be a good thing. Any loss in tax revenue is likely to be more than repaid in lower costs to the NHS and improved air quality.

If HMRC start pursuing cycle to work schemes instead of closing the tax loopholes which facilitate the convoluted tax avoidance schemes favoured by global corporations and the obscenely wealthy, it will be a very sad day indeed.

mattyfez

I agree, the spirit of the scheme is to get people out of thier cars and get a bit more exercise, the t's and c's have purposely been left a bit ambiguous for that reason, and that's a good thing if you ask me, one of the better initiatives of late.

I just bought a load of upgrades for my bike as it was in a bit of a sorry state, an old carrera, I bought a new frame (a cube from bike discount) and fork (via Lbs) myself, but on c2w got a new brake set, new bar and new stem, cables, chain and a set of lights.

It's now got a new lease of life and a fantastic bike now it's all built up. I'm really enjoying riding a lot.

Think I got about £300 worth of 'safety equipment' on c2w, payments spread over 12 months.

Happy days.

Calling it tax evasion is a bit silly, given the current political climate.

The Rookie

keef66 wrote:

If HMRC start pursuing cycle to work schemes instead of closing the tax loopholes which facilitate the convoluted tax avoidance schemes favoured by global corporations and the obscenely wealthy, it will be a very sad day indeed.

HMRC are not responsible for setting law, merely enforcing it, the Gov't's (of all three colour schemes over the last near 30 years) are the ones responsible for the that!

I agree that to the letter of the law the current cycle to work scheme is a damn poor application, but there is a big hint in the title that it's not meant for leisure cycling!

steve_sordy

They probably had to include "work" in the title to exclude the unemployed and the self-employed from participating, seeing as the applicant needs an employer to do admin stuff to their payslip.

The Rookie

The self employed can still do it, most are on a limited co basis so the company still buys the bike and the employee rents it.

Work is included as its clearly intended for to and from work use (title and restriction) and not just for leisure, whether you agree it should be is a different matter but that is clearly the intent of the scheme (tax loophole if you like).

steve_sordy

I guess it's one of these things where you don't ask the question if you might want to know the answer!

1se7en

cheers for the responses guys on the cycle to work, but if anyone has input on the important part. Choosing the bike

im not sure if the KTM is worth it or not out of the 6 in my last post. Its on sale and not sure for how long. So any tips? does it look better than the others I listed overall, are they all pretty rubbish? anything to note? haha cheers!

joebristol

I’d take the Bossnut evo. It has 1x11 gears so the best out the lot. It also has the widest tubeless wheels in a decent make. It’s done really well in grouptests and just looks great value.

The Ktm looks really nice but it relies on flex stays for the rear suspension, has 2x gears and is a bit more xc orientated.

1se7en

Thanks for the reply Joe,

I dont really know all the terms but what does relies on flex stays mean?

The Rookie

Flex stays means that instead of using a pivot between the chainstay and the seat stay it relies on the seat stay flexing (bending) to allow its top end to follow the arc of the linkage, this is very common on XC style (100mm travel, maybe a little more) bikes and not a cause for concern, but it doesn't work so well as travel increases.

1se7en

Ah right, makes sense. Cheers for the response.

So I was looking at the Evo and I see they just released a Triple B, although it means I'd have to pay in a bit extra.

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/calibre-tri ... ke-p432765

Would it be worth the extra £400 on top of the Evo? Then the question becomes, if im adding in another £400 on top, is there anything else in that range that would be better than what I have listed? Man this MTB choosing is a mine field and so many options. Damn can spend days and days looking at everything and still be so undecided

The Rookie

What cycle to work scheme? Not all allow access to all vendors.

Plus check with the vendor if they will alloy topping up, there is an argument its unlawful tax evasion (not tested either way) and not all vendors will agree to it. Plus consider what will happen if you want to leave the scheme early (change employer).

The Viajero looks nice, but the Specs are missing a few key items (the 16 year old is still doing their website it seems) but allow for the fact that On-One charge a 10% premium for C2W to cover the commission. https://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBTIELVIA1 ... ntain-bike

simong88

Jumping in here with my choice selection, unfortunately our CTW scheme is only with evans. Will mainly be going on off road routes and a bit of cycling in a few different nice routes within the UK with the old man, not necessarily for smashing about woods 24/7 though i might happen to end up in a wood or 2. Im looking at either 650b or 29er which is my first decision and I'm just not too sure. Trying to get a bike I wont need to change instantly or upgrade straight away.

Current choices (1 is outside the scheme)
2018 Norco Fluid 2 HT 650b
2018 Voodoo Bizango 29er
2018 Scott Scale 980 29er Or 970.
2018 Trek Roscoe 8 650b
2018 Cube Reaction Pro 29er

Thats also in order of my current preference. Its really a swing between the bizango and scale for a 29er, never really heard of cube. Or stick with the Norco 27.5. For a day/weekend out and about on a bike would i miss the 29er and its ability to roll easily compared to a 650b.

Appreciate all advice.

The Rookie

Be better starting your own thread not hijacking this one and confusing the issue with crossing advice lines.

1se7en

so decided im going on the weekend to view a few bikes if they have in stock.

My current feeling changes every hour but id like to go see the Calibre bikes as theres a Go Outdoors like 10 mins away. Evans is a good hour drive so difficult to get there easy but I do like the look of the Norco's. The Jamis looks cool, but I just dont like the name on the side, I know that probably sounds stupid but anyway.

I do like the Vitus bikes but oviously I cant test them as they are online only, so would have to rely on the fact they win awards and it would be a HT and not FS. Maybe the HT will do me just fine and then get some experience for a year and save up for a decent 2k - 2.5k FS bike instead of going cheaper.

joebristol

Up to you really. Pros and cons to each:

HT - Pros:

Lighter and should have a better spec for the same money as a fs.

Will mean you really have to hone your skills quickly so will develop quicker

Cons:

Can be harder work over rough stuff - if you are prone to back issues (like me), I find I can’t ride my hardtail for as long as my fs.

Fs pros:

Lets you get away with more mistakes without being punished so much

Means you can go faster quicker

Cons:

Usually heavier and some lower grade parts for the same cost as hit

Allows you to be a little bit lazy on technique

For me I’ve always ridden full suss from about 16 (now in my late 30’s) and love them. I recently bought a hardtail for a bit of variety and to see if it makes a difference to my technique. It has benefitted my fs riding by improving my cornering technique and on draggy fireroads it’s quicker. However my lower back gets tight a lot quicker than on the fs and on balance I usually have more fun on the fs.

Although it depends on where you’re riding - on big fast trails with lots of features the fs is where it’s at (eg Bike Park Wales / Flyup 417 / some of the Welsh trail centres). At flatter / less exciting places like Ashton Court / Leigh Woods in Bristol the hardtail. An give more of a challenge and therefore be fun too.

If I only had one mtb it’d be an FS for sure.