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New Wheels - DT Swiss RR 21 / Farsport 50mm CC

flight147zflight147z Posts: 69
edited December 2018 in Road buying advice
Hi all

I'm looking to upgrade the Mavic Askiums that my Canyon Ultimate came with and the DT Swiss RR 21's look like a good choice. I've also considered the Campagnolo Zonda's and the Mavic Ksyrium Elite UST's.

I'm riding LEJOG in September and I'm using that as an excuse to justify a little upgrade!

The RR 21's look like a great weight saving and are within budget of ~£500. Are these the best wheels for me or are there others I should consider? I generally ride between 18-20mph and do a mix of hilly and flat rides. My bike has rim brakes.

The Zondas are cheaper but I'm not sure I'm a fan of the rear spoke pattern, the Ksyriums are more expensive but seem to review well.

In respect of the RR 21's, on Wiggle they seem to retail for £680 if bought as a set (http://www.wiggle.com/dt-swiss-rr-21-di ... -wide-rim/) or £360 if bought separately (http://www.wiggle.com/dt-swiss-rr21-dic ... -wide-rim/ and http://www.wiggle.com/dt-swiss-rr21-dic ... -wide-rim/). Are these the same wheels or am I missing something?

Thanks for your help.
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Posts

  • yiannismyiannism Posts: 345
    I would like to know the verdict too, i am watch them for 3-4 months
  • N0bodyOfTheGoatN0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 5,514
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • prhymeateprhymeate Posts: 792
    I've had mine for about 6 months now, moved over from Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels (had the rim crack on two separate wheels and replaced). I'm really happy with them, very comfortable and seem to roll well... I don't really know what else to say, they are nicer to ride than my Mavics were. I think I paid about £400 at the time from wiggle (bought as a set). For the price on CRC I think they're a steal!
  • flight147zflight147z Posts: 69
    Sounds like no difference between the £680 set and buying as separates then - for less than £400 looks like a great upgrade
  • grenwgrenw Posts: 803
    Had a pair of the disc brake ones on two bikes for the last 2 years. Never needed touching, lovely light set of wheels.

    Looks to me like Wiggle have their pricing wrong - especially with the rear being the same price (full price or discounted) as the front.
  • joe_totale-2joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,333
    I've use them for a year and am a big fan, definitely better than the Fulcrum Racing 3's I was using before. They're a bit more snappy and the hubs have given me no problems unlike the Fulcrums.
  • londoncommuterlondoncommuter Posts: 1,550
    GrenW wrote:
    Had a pair of the disc brake ones on two bikes for the last 2 years. Never needed touching, lovely light set of wheels.

    Looks to me like Wiggle have their pricing wrong - especially with the rear being the same price (full price or discounted) as the front.

    There must be some change as they were dumping loads through their ebay shop maybe six months ago.
  • flight147zflight147z Posts: 69
    Out of stock on both Wiggle and CRC now - I wasn't looking to purchase until August, so back to the drawing board to find an alternative!
  • flight147zflight147z Posts: 69
    I've now had another look at what's out there and I'm now thinking of pushing the budget up a bit to get some nice carbon rims. My budget could run to an absolute maximum of £800 as they are a bit of an extravagance for me - for that price there only seems to be two options from well known brands

    1) Mavic Cosmic Pro Carbon - £775 (including tyres)
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mavi ... prod153977

    2) Campagnolo Bullet 50mm - £749
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/camp ... -prod88951

    Both seem to be pretty cheap for branded carbon wheels and I assume that this is because they are both "old" technology. The Campagnolos seem to be a design from 2011 and the Mavics also seem to be an old design albeit updated in 2017.

    I understand that both wheels are really allot=y wheels will carbon fairings bonded on. "Full" carbon wheels seem to go for significantly more cash than wheels made like this.

    I'm aware that neither are as light as a nice set of alloy wheels - the Mavics weigh in at 1690g and the Campagnolos at 1755g.

    Both are lighter than my current Aksiums though (1880g) and I expect they have much nicer hubs and bearings too.

    Please let me know your thoughts on these two options and any alternatives that I have missed. I've tried to read through what reviews I can find, but given both wheelsets are pretty old or old tech, there don't seem to be lot about.
  • pauly69pauly69 Posts: 101
    Hmmm, 800 quid buys a lot of alu wheelset, but quite ordinary / quasi-carbon. If you liked the RR21, look for the PR1400 instead - DT Swiss' top end alu wheelset, all-stealth-black for that carbon-alike look and none of the downsides of carbon braking.

    For long distance riding you'll appreciate a comfortable wheel. I have the PR1400, and also a set of Reynolds Assault - if I could only keep one it'd be the DT Swiss.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 5,752
    35mm carbon clinchers:

    https://www.vanillabikes.com/collection ... oad-wheels.

    you could get a set of Zondas and a Set of 50mm clinchers if you went to Farsports.
  • flight147zflight147z Posts: 69
    35mm carbon clinchers:

    https://www.vanillabikes.com/collection ... oad-wheels.

    you could get a set of Zondas and a Set of 50mm clinchers if you went to Farsports.

    Are Farsports actually any good though?
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 5,752
    Yes. Very. Hundreds of satisfied customers.

    Gigantex rims on bitex or novatec hubs. Absolutely perfect, extremely reliable and dirt cheap.

    Look for the 'known' brands. Farsports, Carbonzone, Light bicycle etc.

    These are the people who manufacture the rims for the cheap uk carbon wheels, likely including Prime, Zuus, Amp, Planet X tubular and probably those vanilla bikes ones I linked above.

    You can pay more for better spokes but I don't see the point unless you want to ride them in winter or you're very heavy.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 5,752
    Some links here:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/carbonzone

    (I have forks from here I use on my commuter)

    http://www.farsports.cn/product/index.p ... id-55.html

    (most buy from here and the ones below)

    https://www.lightbicycle.com/carbon-road-bike

    http://www.flyxii.com/PRODUCTS?product_ ... y=73&brd=1

    http://www.velobuildmall.com/c/road-wheel_0366
    (JoostG has a really nice bike from here - viewtopic.php?t=13081156)

    They have every iteration of depth, width, tubular, clincher, tubeless, rim brake and disc brake that your heart desires.

    Just check you have clearance if you want a very wide inner rim width.
  • flight147zflight147z Posts: 69
    Yes. Very. Hundreds of satisfied customers.

    Gigantex rims on bitex or novatec hubs. Absolutely perfect, extremely reliable and dirt cheap.

    Look for the 'known' brands. Farsports, Carbonzone, Light bicycle etc.

    These are the people who manufacture the rims for the cheap uk carbon wheels, likely including Prime, Zuus, Amp, Planet X tubular and probably those vanilla bikes ones I linked above.

    You can pay more for better spokes but I don't see the point unless you want to ride them in winter or you're very heavy.

    Ok - I quite like the look of the 50mm farsports without logos - with a carbon braking track they look a bit more special than the campagnolog and mavics I linked above I do have some questions though!

    What exactly isn't so nice about the spokes on these?

    I've got a Canyon Ultimate with 105 running 25mm Continental GPs - what would be the "normal" rim width (perhaps in comparison to my aksiums) what is the maximum I could get away with and why would I want to go super wide?

    I weigh 80kg and rarely ride in the rain or other bad weather

    Thanks for your help so far - really useful info and links
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 5,752
    Ok so now it's a long slippery slope of info. Generally speaking you don't want your rim/tyre interface to look like a lightbulb where you have a very large tyre on a narrow rim.

    "ALL THE BELOW IS GENERALLY SPEAKING"

    Wider rims (17mm+) with a smooth tyre transition (25mm or so) are at least equally aero as 15mm and 23mm tyres. BUT The benefit is you can reduce pressures by 10psi and get better rolling resistance and increased comfort. The wider you go the lower the pressure you can run, increase the comfort and allegedly be more aero.

    At your weight I would recommend a 23-25mm EXTERNAL width rim (17mm INTERNAL) around 45mm depth paired with a 25mm tyre. I don't know about your bike but mine doesn't have huge clearances. That combo should deal with all newish bikes absolutely fine (last 3-4 years at least)

    Better spokes are stiffer and more corrosion resistant. Cx-ray are the gold standard but more expensive. hubs wise, bitex and novatec are fine but may need more regular bearing replacement (annually or maybe biannually) and dt Swiss are the gold standard. As you ride in ok weather you're probably fine on the cheaper hubs. Dt Swiss is a big price increase but could well be hubs for life if the rims are destroyed in an accident. Just get new rims and rebuild.

    I've rewritten my post so there are more links.
  • flight147zflight147z Posts: 69
    Ok, so I have done a little research.

    This is the version of my exact frame with the widest wheels.

    https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultim ... -etap.html

    This comes with Mavic Cosmic Elite wheels which have an internal rim width of 17mm and an outer rim width of 23mm. It has exactly the same tyres as my bike, in the same width (25mm). Therefore I know that my frame can handle wheels with those measurements.

    The only potential obstacle could be the brakes - I have Shimano 5800 105 brakes but the above model has SRAM brakes. I guess I need to research the different clearances on those brakes. Apparently the 5800 105 brakes can take tyres up to 28mm.

    If I was going to buy from Farsport, I would probably go with these:

    https://www.wheelsfar.com/road-wheels/c ... elset.html

    The measurements for those are 16mm for the inner rim and 23mm for the outer rim, so broadly inline with the Mavics on the Canyon above - therefore I think they will fit? Those are $666 and have DT Swiss 350S hubs. I like the idea of getting DT Swiss hubs as it's a brand that I recognise and I know is generally well regarded.

    There are alternative wheels available from Farsport which are a little narrower (13.5mm internal and 20.5mm external). These are a little lighter than the ones above (1330g v 1545g for the 23mm set) and come with EdHub hubs (which I have never heard of). The set above are cheaper at $593

    https://www.wheelsfar.com/road-wheels/c ... elset.html

    Based on the information above, it sounds like the wider rim would be better, providing it will fit under the brakes.

    The last thing to consider for me is weight - both are considerably lighter than my Aksiums (which weigh 1880g) so I assume that these carbon wheels are better in every way than my Aksiums, even for climbing, as there is no weight penalty?

    Hopefully I'm making some sense - thanks again for your help - it's difficult to find this level of guidance using search.

    I do need to go through the wheels on the other sites in more detail too. Just using the Farsports for an example at the moment.
  • requiemrequiem Posts: 57
    you'll be absolutely fine with the 5800 callipers - I used to run a very similar setup
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 5,752
    I would 100% get wider rims.

    These:

    https://www.wheelsfar.com/road-wheels/c ... elset.html

    I would think minimum internal width 16mm but 17 is what I run with 26mm external width and 105 calipers and fits fine with 25mm schwalbe One tyres. I have a colnago c59 which is renowned for poor clearance and just fits on that as well.

    Edhub are probably rebanded novatec or bitex.

    Weight sounds good although interestingly, except for short, sharp climbs you may be surprised to hear that aero trumps weight in most scenarios.

    Sounds like a great upgrade for your bike.
  • flight147zflight147z Posts: 69
    I guess there is a risk that the 25mm rims won't fit though? Whereas I know that the 23mm ones will based on the above?

    Does anyone have experience of the DT Swiss 350 hubs?
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 5,752
    Hubs are excellent. Zero risk that the wheels won’t fit. Honestly. You’re wasting your money going narrower.

    For example my wheels are Zipp 303s. 1mm wider external and 1mm narrower internal. One of the most well known wheel sets there is. If they fit my 2 bikes from 2008 and 2013 then wheels with the same dimensions will fit yours.
  • GrenW wrote:
    Had a pair of the disc brake ones on two bikes for the last 2 years. Never needed touching, lovely light set of wheels.

    Looks to me like Wiggle have their pricing wrong - especially with the rear being the same price (full price or discounted) as the front.

    There must be some change as they were dumping loads through their ebay shop maybe six months ago.

    I bought these separately (front about £90 and rear £180) through the Wiggle eBay shop auctions and they are superb wheels, a bit dull looking on the rims buts hubs are superb and they are light enough. Very pleased with mine.
  • flight147zflight147z Posts: 69
    Ok, so it sounds like its highly likely that the 25mm rims will fit my bike.

    I will discount the 20.5mm versions and therfore I'll have to decide between 23mm and 25mm.

    I assume in reality there is very little difference between the two sets. There is a weight difference of 75g which is obviously nothing and I guess an incredibly minor aero/comfort advantage to the 25mm rims.

    In practice is there really any difference between the two sets?

    I want to receive before the end of August. It looks like from order to delivery Farsports take around 2 weeks.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 5,752
    In spite of what I wrote, you probably won't feel the difference but in theory the wider should be more aero and more comfortable exactly as you said!
  • flight147zflight147z Posts: 69
    In spite of what I wrote, you probably won't feel the difference but in theory the wider should be more aero and more comfortable exactly as you said!

    Hey I'm very grateful for the advice - just slow at making decisions! I currently run at 110psi so no stranger to a lack of comfort!

    To be honest same price, same weight so if what you say is true and there is a noticeable aero difference the 25mm should be the one to go for (even if that does sound crazy wide)
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 5,752
    You say youre 80kg? Definitely drop 10psi from your current setup. 90 should be plenty at your weight on 17mm rims and 25mm tyres.
  • flight147zflight147z Posts: 69
    Farsports ordered. My rear Aksium is completely wrecked and going back to Mavic under warranty so figured it was time to bite the bullet.

    Hopefully the delivery will be quick
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 5,752
    Nice one. You won't be disappointed. Which did you go for in the end?
  • flight147zflight147z Posts: 69
    https://www.wheelsfar.com/road-wheels/c ... elset.html

    UD Matt, No Logos, Black Spokes and Nipples
    50mm x 25mm on DT350 hubs

    I accidentally ordered the 23mm versions but emailed them to switch the order - they said that wouldn't be a problem

    Still a bit of work to do on the bike before they come. I've fitted a new rear derailleur as the old one had lost tension. Unfortunately I couldn't rescue the old cable either so I need to redo the internal cabling and then setup the gears again.
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