Did some Hard Maths On What Gives the Most SPEED Gains

itaa

I wasn't able to find the exact numbers anywhere,just articles saying -- better, worse... which is totally useless so I did my own.
I will try to keep this short, I have 3 sheets full of calculations but this is to sum it up:

-If you ride slow around 15km/h a Tyre change from OK tyres to great tyres with low rolling resistance will give you huge gains alone,

-If you average speed is 25km/h+ a tyre change will still give a good effect, but the aero is HUGE ( You can Install TT bars on your mtb for like £15 and they will give you BETTER aero than being on drops on a Road bike + wear tighter fitting clothes + just look at your pose in mirror/reflection)

-Various ''must have'' bits/weight of the bike or the brand of the bike/your gear/bicycle type.. gives very very marginal gains, we are talking about max 1-3% gains,under 25km/h , about 5% if we are going at 35km/h+ speeds.

_____________

Here are the numbers If we start with a mtb/hybrid with decent tyres and not very huge layers of clothes and change to better rolling tyres (£40-50/pair) and Install TT bars on your bike to get in good position + have a decent form and better fitting clothes
( based on a 80kg rider with a 14kg bike, they will change around 0.4-0.5% if you drop the weight of the bike by 4kg - so very marginal and not worth it)

___________
For the same W worth of effort:

Only with better tyres increase your speed from 15km/h to 17km/h /// 13% gain or from 60mins to 52mins to do the same distance.
Only with better tyres increase your speed from 25km/h to 26.5km/h /// 6% gain or from 60mins to 56.5mins to do the same distance.


With Better tyres+ TT bars+ good position From 15km/h to 19.3km/h /// 28% gain or from 60mins to 43mins to do the same distance.
With Better tyres+ TT bars+ good position From 25km/h to 30.3km/h /// 21% gain or from 60mins to 47.5min to do the same distance.


You can play around with some of the data here, https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html however you will need to know the resistances on everything ( it's available if you search around).

cooldad

Er um good luck in real life.

sungod

http://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/PowerModels.aspx

imposter2.0

Apparently, there's also another way of getting speed gains. Something about 'improving fitness', I think. Someone told me it's free, but I don't believe them. I'm sure it's nonsense though...

svetty

Aw bless....

sloppyschleckonds

Bikeradar has reached peak moron, Bungle, Lesfirth, PilotPete, Scott, MileMunter1 you have been usurped.

Matthewfalle

Even MF thinks you’re a loon, and that’s saying something.

pblakeney

I find that pedalling faster without changing down gears gives the most improvement.

mfin

Some context, from 1 month ago. Don't be mean people, he's starting out.

itaa wrote:

My Goal is to be able to ride 20miles a day most days of the week rain or shine at a reasonable pace,
I'm a weak skinny-fat 27y old office worker with no endurance/power whatsoever, currently after riding 20miles in one go I feel knackered and out for 2days. I can maybe sustain riding 6-7miles in good weather every 2days with no effects at the moment.

pblakeney

mfin wrote:

Some context, from 1 month ago. Don't be mean people, he's starting out.

itaa wrote:

My Goal is to be able to ride 20miles a day most days of the week rain or shine at a reasonable pace,
I'm a weak skinny-fat 27y old office worker with no endurance/power whatsoever, currently after riding 20miles in one go I feel knackered and out for 2days. I can maybe sustain riding 6-7miles in good weather every 2days with no effects at the moment.

In which case my advice is simple.
Ride more, think less.

ayjaycee

itaa wrote:

You can play around with some of the data here, https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html however you will need to know the resistances on everything ( it's available if you search around).

Sorry, I can’t. I’ve got a life and an appointment to have hot needles stuck in my eyes later this morning that I would rather keep.

tonysj

Ease off guys, Each to their own thing!!

mikecassie

Different username, same rubbish on Pistonheads... I think in general the responses were the same there too.

mrfpb

Imposter wrote:

Apparently, there's also another way of getting speed gains. Something about 'improving fitness', I think. Someone told me it's free, but I don't believe them. I'm sure it's nonsense though...

But there is always a fitness vs. equipment vs. technique argument when it comes to how world records fall in different sports.

As a beginner I also found that switching tyres was the change that made the biggest difference to speed, (the second biggest was removing my handlebar bag!) in terms of fitness, getting a good nights sleep after a "rest" day improved my speed and/or endurance.

I don't think itaa is over thinking. The thought that goes into these things is probably less than 1% of the time spent riding. Spending time thinking how to do things better is always worthwhile.

Bumo_b

+1 for switching tyres. My first tyres were Decathlon Puncture resist when I started out and the next spring I switched to GP4000SII. Absolutely astonishing difference. That being said, never once got a puncture through a horrible winter on the Decathlons and dirt cheap so everything has its place.

ugo.santalucia

These maths are hard indeed... there are even multiplications!!

imafatman

For me the fastest way to go faster is to lose weight.

Less cross sectional area for speed on the flats helps but the real gains are on the hills. I have gained several km/h in weight loss alone.

I suspect that it's true for most people who don't realise they could drop 5% in body fat before they spent a months wages on a new lightweight wheel set.

homers_double

I tend to use the data/dump theory when working out marginal gains. If I take a dump my data gets better.

homers_double

imafatman wrote:

I suspect that it's true for most people who don't realise they could drop 5% in body fat before they spent a months wages on a new lightweight wheel set.

Lets not get all sensible over there...

imafatman

homers double wrote:

I tend to use the data/dump theory when working out marginal gains. If I take a dump my data gets better.

LOL. Turns out shitting yourself before a race is scientifically proven to make you go faster.

keef66

There's a deep-seated need in some people to analyse everything to the nth degree, and sometimes it can be genuinely useful. Take Sky / BC and their accumulation of marginal gains / holistic approach to training / nutrition / sleep / recovery / minimising infection risk etc.

But for a beginner trying to improve fitness, endurance and ultimately speed, I'd say the important things are:

Get a road bike that's the right size and set it up so it's comfortable. Decent tyres a plus.
While not essential, stiff soled cycling shoes and some decent bibshorts will help.
Focus on gradually increasing time on the bike. Record distances, speeds etc if you like, but don't obsess about them yet.
Include sufficient recovery time
Don't make the mistake of thinking you need to eat loads more, or invest in energy drinks and protein powders

PhilipPirrip

mfin wrote:

Some context, from 1 month ago. Don't be mean people, he's starting out.

itaa wrote:

My Goal is to be able to ride 20miles a day most days of the week rain or shine at a reasonable pace,
I'm a weak skinny-fat 27y old office worker with no endurance/power whatsoever, currently after riding 20miles in one go I feel knackered and out for 2days. I can maybe sustain riding 6-7miles in good weather every 2days with no effects at the moment.

Rather than all the pretty pointless hypothetical analysis it would be interesting to know how they're progressing towards this goal. Are they just getting out there, building the miles and enjoying it?

It would be more meaningful and people might be willing to offer some useful advice.

homers_double

Get out more. Is that enough?

surfercyclist

keef66 wrote:

There's a deep-seated need in some people to analyse everything to the nth degree, and sometimes it can be genuinely useful. Take Sky / BC and their accumulation of marginal gains / holistic approach to training / nutrition / sleep / recovery / minimising infection risk etc.

But for a beginner trying to improve fitness, endurance and ultimately speed, I'd say the important things are:

Get a road bike that's the right size and set it up so it's comfortable. Decent tyres a plus.
While not essential, stiff soled cycling shoes and some decent bibshorts will help.
Focus on gradually increasing time on the bike. Record distances, speeds etc if you like, but don't obsess about them yet.
Include sufficient recovery time
Don't make the mistake of thinking you need to eat loads more, or invest in energy drinks and protein powders

This.

priory

Itaa's op was very interesting and worthwhile , i thought. The numbers suggest that tyres and rider position have different relative importance at different speeds and that buying titanium screws is unlikely to have a real-world effect. You can see this in action at any audax ride or BC meet ; and we can all express opinions, but an attempt to be more accurate in one's analysis seems like a good thing.

PhilipPirrip

I ride my bike.

I like riding my bike.

I get faster riding my bike.

I like riding my bike more.

buckles

Have you tried pedaling harder?

kajjal

Mountain biking is a little different, being chased downhill by a bull means you can rapidly accelerate to speeds in excess of 40 mph. This may be different on road.

ctp046

I second this. Don't know where the hate is coming from.

priory wrote:

Itaa's op was very interesting and worthwhile , i thought. The numbers suggest that tyres and rider position have different relative importance at different speeds and that buying titanium screws is unlikely to have a real-world effect. You can see this in action at any audax ride or BC meet ; and we can all express opinions, but an attempt to be more accurate in one's analysis seems like a good thing.

Orkneylad

Trouble is itaa, putting TT bars on your mtb will mark you out as 'different' . . . dare I say it, a bit of a loon.

If the be-all-and-end-all for you is Ave speed, get a road or TT bike, forget about marginal gains until you feel STRONG.

To GET strong, make your riding harder, not easier.

stevie63

Orkneylad wrote:

Trouble is itaa, putting TT bars on your mtb will mark you out as 'different' . . . dare I say it, a bit of a loon.

Try telling that to this fella:

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/andy-wilkinsons-dolan-time-trial-bike-29431

541 miles in 24 hours on a modified MTB frame is not bad.