Accident advice - insurance claim

DWM1980

Hi

Sorry for posting another question about advice following an accident - I have searched but nothing quite answers my question.

Just over 2 weeks ago I was rear ended by a taxi. It was at low speed - I was in front at a junction, he was looking for gap in the oncoming traffic and pulled out without looking in front of him, hitting me, knocking me off and ending up on top of my rear wheel! No damage to me but the bike hasn’t been so lucky. We exchanged details and he reported it to his insurance company who are now dealing with the claim.

I have taken the bike to a local shop and they tell me the frame is a write off (badly bent integral gear hanger and misaligned rear triangle - the crank now hits the chain stay on one side!). I assume the rear wheel has also had it and there is also some other cosmetic damage. An engineer from the insurance company is expecting it tomorrow.

Finally on to the question. How does an insurance company deal with valuations? My simple understanding is that I should be no worse off following this accident. When it comes to establishing a reasonable replacement value, does the original purchase cost matter? I brought the bike (a Genesis Croix de Fer 20) in an end of season sale a couple of years ago so saved £400 on the RRP. I managed to grab a bargain wheel upgrade - the same wheels now are over £150 more than I paid. Is this taken into account, or do they just look at the RRP and then make a deduction for wear and tear? I should hear back from the insurance company next week, but would welcome any advice so that I have more of an idea what to expect.

Cheers

Dave

cycleclinic

you will simply be supplied with a new bike a croix der fer specifically.

pilot_pete

thecycleclinic wrote:

you will simply be supplied with a new bike a croix der fer specifically.

That’s a possibility, but not necessarily completely true in every case. Last November a lady pulled out straight into the side of me (I had right of way). She admitted liability as in the OPs case. Literally that afternoon I got my LBS to list every damaged part at full retail price and submitted that list, with a key explaining what a Shimano STR785 etc was and a photograph of every damaged part including ripped bar tape and end plugs, scuffed tyres, smashed derailleur, hanger, brake levers, frame etc. Also, helmet, sunglasses, shoes, leg warmers, shorts and jersey all damaged and claimed for.

They paid out £7k within two weeks. Doesn’t matter that I built the bike using discounts, sale prices etc as the replacement parts might not have been on offer when I came to replace them. The parts that weren’t damaged were used again and the bike back on the road within the month.

I took the skin off my knee and had a swollen elbow and hip (I was incredibly lucky). When I said I wouldn’t claim for personal injury as I just wanted my bike back on the road they jumped at the chance to settle quickly.

PP

DWM1980

thecycleclinic wrote:

you will simply be supplied with a new bike a croix der fer specifically.

Thanks for your reply.

The situation is perhaps made more complicated as in addition to the wheels I have also a carbon fork and have upgraded the groupset from 4600 Tiagra to 5800 105. A replacement Croix de Fer would therefore have a significantly lower spec, and so I would be worse off than before the accident.

Cheers

Dave

DWM1980

Pilot Pete wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

you will simply be supplied with a new bike a croix der fer specifically.

That’s a possibility, but not necessarily completely true in every case. PP

Thanks For this Pete.

What you have described was how I assumed things would work - the bike shop confirm the cost of equivalent replacement parts and the insurance company pay out. The fact the insurance company are sending an engineer to inspect the bike makes me slightly nervous, not because I think the bike shop are exaggerating the damage, but that the engineer may make things more complicated. It’s going to be a long wait until I find out next week!

Cheers

Dave

First.Aspect

That's what you should be offered, true, but in my experience the starting offer may be more along the lines of what is done for cars. You may have to battle a bit to persuade the insurer that you need one of a certain size and component spec/wear for it to be equivalent and that these are not readily available. That way you can demonstrate (hopefully) that any initial offer does not put you in the position you were before the incident.

If you are using public transport in the interim, keep the receipts.

DWM1980

First Aspect wrote:

That's what you should be offered, true, but in my experience the starting offer may be more along the lines of what is done for cars. You may have to battle a bit to persuade the insurer that you need one of a certain size and component spec/wear for it to be equivalent and that these are not readily available. That way you can demonstrate (hopefully) that any initial offer does not put you in the position you were before the incident.

If you are using public transport in the interim, keep the receipts.

That's my concern. If I am not happy with the initial offer I will have to provide evidence that it is not good enough. Presumably they could ask for receipts for everything in which case arguing that I need £300 to replace something that I only paid £150 for might cause problems!

Cheers

Dave

boblo

Why don't you get the LBS to do an estimate for a new CdF with the revised parts at current RRP. That's the full replacement cost shirley?

StillGoing

Don't use his insurers to handle your claim. They're only interested in one party; them. They want to minimise any outlay they have to make so will be obstructive or slow in dealing with things in an effort to wear you down and compel you to take a derisory offer. Get yourself a solicitor specialising in RTC claims and willing to deal with your claim on a no win no fee basis.

DWM1980

philthy3 wrote:

Don't use his insurers to handle your claim. They're only interested in one party; them. They want to minimise any outlay they have to make so will be obstructive or slow in dealing with things in an effort to wear you down and compel you to take a derisory offer. Get yourself a solicitor specialising in RTC claims and willing to deal with your claim on a no win no fee basis.

I am trying to avoid this, and even if I wasn't I don't think anyone would take it on as a no win no fee basis. Fortunately there was no personal injury so the claim is only for the damage to the bike. My understanding is that under these circumstances there is very little money in it for solicitors so they tend not to be interested. Happy to be corrected if this is not the case.

Cheers

Dave

StillGoing

Do you have personal accident insurance or house insurance that covers you for losses away from the home? If so, use them to handle the claim on your behalf.

DWM1980

philthy3 wrote:

Do you have personal accident insurance or house insurance that covers you for losses away from the home? If so, use them to handle the claim on your behalf.

I changed home insurance providers last week (and saved £300 in the process!), so this is more complicated than it could be as well!

Think I will keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best and investigate legal options if I am not happy with their assessment.

Cheers

Dave

slowbike

BC or CTC membership gives you legal cover - get it for next time.

Don't worry about it for now though - wait and see what they offer. "sending an Engineer" - probably means they have a bikeshop deal setup and will just send round a mechanic to confirm what the bikeshop you've used has said.

They will try and offer as low as possible - why wouldn't they - you don't have to produce receipts for anything - unless you feel it would be in your favour - the kit will speak for itself - they can see it's carbon forks and 5800 105 groupset.

They may offer you replacement secondhand value of the bike - but you don't have to accept that - I don't know what the warranty is on your bike/groupset/forks - but warranty normally ends with the original purchaser - and warranty has a value (to you if anything goes wrong) - to prove warranty you may need to produce receipts though ....

I would do some research now into what you could get - cheapest new and some idea of S/H availability so you know where your bottom line is - just don't publish that here or inform the insurance co as they'll see that as a ceiling!

and ... what about your interim costs - are you now using different transport method - is that costing you? Don't forget the bikeshop may charge for inspection too.

DWM1980

Hi All

Many thanks for the responses to this.

I've just spoken to the bike shop. The engineer arrived this morning and they went through the damage etc, and the bike shop manager set out the cost of replacement. The engineer has reported back to the insurance company and waiting begins.

Will hopefully be able to provide an update early next week.

Cheers

Dave

navrig2

The insurance company should not benefit from the bargains you worked hard to find. You should get back what you had as a minimum if you are accepting a replacement bike.

If you were to insist on cash they may try to argue you are only entitled to what you paid with some inflationary allowance.

sloppyschleckonds

Pilot Pete wrote:

They paid out £7k within two weeks.

This sounds like bullshite, but then so does everything else you post.

jakejhonson44

idk much about this but I think the insurance company will be replacing the damaged bike with a new one... Anways, im glad to hear you're okay.

DWM1980

Slowbike wrote:

They may offer you replacement secondhand value of the bike - but you don't have to accept that - I don't know what the warranty is on your bike/groupset/forks - but warranty normally ends with the original purchaser - and warranty has a value (to you if anything goes wrong) - to prove warranty you may need to produce receipts though ....

I hadn't thought of this. Genesis frames have 'a limited lifetime warranty' for the original purchaser. Presumably this would be a good reason to reject any 2nd hand offerings?

Cheers

Dave

pilot_pete

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

They paid out £7k within two weeks.

This sounds like bullshite, but then so does everything else you post.

Wind your neck in Sloppy, I’ve never seen you post anything of value, just derogatory comments.

You may not believe it, but just because someone has expensive bikes, knows how to speak to people when making an insurance claim, provides documentary evidence of full RRP replacement values for ALL damaged kit, including clothing, from an independent bike shop, plus photos of the damage to EVERY item on the same working day that the no-fault accident occurred, PLUS dash cam video of the incident from the driver (a Transport Manager) of the vehicle following the car that hit me, added to an admission of full fault from the old lady concerned, doesn’t mean it is bullshite. It simply means I provided everything they needed to assess the claim, left them no wiggle room and couple that to the fact that I told them I wouldn’t make a claim for personal injury, but would claim for hire of a similar quality bike plus insurance for a trip abroad that I had planned (for which I sent them flight and accommodation booking details), which would have come to a tidy sum, they decided I had done all their investigations for them, case signed off and as promised money paid into my account within 2 weeks - a week before my trip.

So, once again Sloppy, wind you neck in. :roll:

PP

apreading

Doesnt matter what you paid for anything - their obligation is to put you back in the position you were if the accident had not happened. So they will have to pay what it would cost to replace the bike and all the parts now, regardless of whether you got them cheaper originally, as that is what it will (in theory) cost to get you back in the position they have to return you to. They might argue wear and tear if the bike or parts are old as strictly speaking they only need to restore you to the position you were at before the accident but they dont normally bother as this is a very imprecise thing and you wouldnt get a second hand bike exactly the same anyway. Its unusual that they send someone to inspect it though - they normally just take the bike shop's word for it if you get them to write a report and an estimate to replace. They could argue that the upgraded groupset is still OK and could be fitted to a new croix de fer, rather than them replacing those parts too - and it may be fair for them to do so, but again they normally just dont bother.

sloppyschleckonds

Pilot Pete wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

They paid out £7k within two weeks.

This sounds like bullshite, but then so does everything else you post.

Wind your neck in Sloppy, I’ve never seen you post anything of value, just derogatory comments.

You may not believe it, but just because someone has expensive bikes, knows how to speak to people when making an insurance claim, provides documentary evidence of full RRP replacement values for ALL damaged kit, including clothing, from an independent bike shop, plus photos of the damage to EVERY item on the same working day that the no-fault accident occurred, PLUS dash cam video of the incident from the driver (a Transport Manager) of the vehicle following the car that hit me, added to an admission of full fault from the old lady concerned, doesn’t mean it is bullshite. It simply means I provided everything they needed to assess the claim, left them no wiggle room and couple that to the fact that I told them I wouldn’t make a claim for personal injury, but would claim for hire of a similar quality bike plus insurance for a trip abroad that I had planned (for which I sent them flight and accommodation booking details), which would have come to a tidy sum, they decided I had done all their investigations for them, case signed off and as promised money paid into my account within 2 weeks - a week before my trip.

So, once again Sloppy, wind you neck in. :roll:

PP

Try telling the truth once in a while, or does that go against your immature years

Walter Mitty and Rubberneck have nothing on your tall tales

slowbike

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

Cut it out.

slowbike

DWM1980 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

They may offer you replacement secondhand value of the bike - but you don't have to accept that - I don't know what the warranty is on your bike/groupset/forks - but warranty normally ends with the original purchaser - and warranty has a value (to you if anything goes wrong) - to prove warranty you may need to produce receipts though ....

I hadn't thought of this. Genesis frames have 'a limited lifetime warranty' for the original purchaser. Presumably this would be a good reason to reject any 2nd hand offerings?

Cheers

Dave

It would be a very good reason to reject the offer of s/h ££ so you could buy a frame... yes. Because you'd lose out on the benefit of the lifetime warranty. Specialized offer lifetime warranty too - so I'd use that against accepting the low price of a s/h frame.
Whilst insurance payout isn't supposed to put you in a better position, it's not supposed to leave you worse off - which arguably you would be with a s/h frame, unknown history and no manufacturers warranty.

svetty

Slowbike wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

Cut it out.

Not sure PP has done anything other than respond to an unprovoked trolling post....

sloppyschleckonds

Svetty wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

Cut it out.

Not sure PP has done anything other than respond to an unprovoked trolling post....

All he has to do is post evidence his insurance claim was paid within 2 weeks of the accident and everyones happy.

neeb

Slowbike wrote:

BC or CTC membership gives you legal cover - get it for next time.

I can't recommend this highly enough. I was hit by a car just over three weeks ago - broken rib, ac joint shoulder injury and trashed high-end bike frame & wheels. Driver's fault. British cycling immediately put a local lawyer onto the case who specialises in bike accidents. She's after the insurance company like a rottweiler and will try to get as much out of them as she can.. So much less stress as it's all handled for me. They will even arrange for a doctor to provide a report on my injuries and get my medical records from my GP. BC sliver membership is worth it for this alone.

Even in the lack of insurance / BC membership I'd look around for local lawyers who specialise in this sort of thing.

pilot_pete

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Svetty wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

Cut it out.

Not sure PP has done anything other than respond to an unprovoked trolling post....

All he has to do is post evidence his insurance claim was paid within 2 weeks of the accident and everyones happy.

Why do you need to evidence, believe or don’t believe, your opinion has no bearing on the OP...

Troll indeed. Try adding something of value for once. :roll: I feel a “Foe” status coming on for slippy sickens to stop the white noise...

PP

jakejhonson44

First Aspect wrote:

That's what you should be offered, true, but in my experience the starting offer may be more along the lines of what is done for cars. You may have to battle a bit to persuade the insurer that you need one of a certain size and component spec/wear for it to be equivalent and that these are not readily available. That way you can demonstrate (hopefully) that any initial offer does not put you in the position you were before the incident.

If you are using public transport in the interim, keep the receipts.

This.

vpnikolov

Just get in touch with Leigh Day and let them handle everything for you.

Used them twice now, flawless.

slowbike

Svetty wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

Cut it out.

Not sure PP has done anything other than respond to an unprovoked trolling post....

I could see it escalating - and detracting from the subject of the post - not interested in who is right or wrong or who started it - we're all adults here (or supposed to be) ...

DWM1980

I have an update - it appears I was worrying about nothing!!

The insurance company deemed it a total loss and have valued it within spitting distance of the value the bike shop gave so I'm happy with this. I can also keep the old bike and salvage anything worth keeping which is a bonus.

Thanks all for the advice over the past couple of days.

Cheers

Dave