Weight of tubeless wheels vs non-tubeless

ryan_w-2

Obviously the weather has sweet FA to do with times being faster...

Well done you.

cycleclinic

you also have to factor in what you carry.

with tubeless my repair kit with a 60ml bottle of sleand and vlave core remover is under 100g. Two tubes and tyre levers is over 200g.

Therefore tubeless is lighter and take less space in my back pocket. i can fix multiple puntures that wont seal with the repair kit. I can fix two with tubes.

tubeless is therefore better (if your wheels are tubeless compatible). It's not hard when you step back.

scotthunter

thecycleclinic wrote:

you also have to factor in what you carry.

with tubeless my repair kit with a 60ml bottle of sleand and vlave core remover is under 100g. Two tubes and tyre levers is over 200g.

Therefore tubeless is lighter and take less space in my back pocket. i can fix multiple puntures that wont seal with the repair kit. I can fix two with tubes.

tubeless is therefore better (if your wheels are tubeless compatible). It's not hard when you step back.

I probably won't carry a spare tube or pump. In my 4 years of cycling I have never had a puncture that wasn't a pinch flat. If shit happens I would call a friend for a lift home. Then I would go to a bike shop and get the tyres re-sealed properly as I don't have the equipment at home to do that.

ryan_w-2

Now I’m well and truly lost.

keef66

Is this a Millennial thing? Maybe it's because I grew up in the 60s and 70s with no money, no car in the family and no phone, mobile or otherwise, but I absolutely need to know I'm pretty well self-sufficient every time I go out on the bike.

My (millennial) son's the same; hardly ever takes his pump or the other stuff to deal with a simple puncture. I find it annoying to the point of wishing he'd have one, just to teach him a lesson. His GF doesn't drive and his mates live miles away, so a puncture could end up costing him £20 for a taxi. If he has the nerve to phone me I think I might be busy...

fenix

Crazy to not take a pump and tube with you. You could be stuck 50 miles from home with no phone signal in the rain.
If any of my mates were that foolish there's no way I'm driving out to rescue them.

What is the benefit of not taking a pump and tube ??

sloppyschleckonds

Fenix wrote:

Crazy to not take a pump and tube with you. You could be stuck 50 miles from home with no phone signal in the rain.
If any of my mates were that foolish there's no way I'm driving out to rescue them.

What is the benefit of not taking a pump and tube ??

Less weight to carry, 14% faster up climbs

keef66

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Crazy to not take a pump and tube with you. You could be stuck 50 miles from home with no phone signal in the rain.
If any of my mates were that foolish there's no way I'm driving out to rescue them.

What is the benefit of not taking a pump and tube ??

Less weight to carry, 14% faster up climbs

Fcuk me, how big's the pump??

sloppyschleckonds

scotthunter

Fenix wrote:

Crazy to not take a pump and tube with you. You could be stuck 50 miles from home with no phone signal in the rain.
If any of my mates were that foolish there's no way I'm driving out to rescue them.

What is the benefit of not taking a pump and tube ??

Ummm:

a) I wouldn't be out in the rain, I only ride on sunny days;
b) I almost always have mobile signal everywhere I ride, or be near mobile signal;
c) I can't mount a bottle cage AND pump mount on my seat tube as it gets in the way of the crank arm & I find riding with a pump in my pocket uncomfortable;
d) Have you ever crashed and landed on your back with a metal pump in your back pocket? It expect it would hurt a lot;
e) I have cycled 3000 miles and never had a single puncture that wasn't a pinch flat / snake bite type - tubeless technology eliminates these
f) It is not recommended to install tubes in tubeless tyres - tyres designed for tubes have a smoother inner surface, while tubeless tyres do not. As a result, tubes can chafe and puncture in a tubeless tyre due to the roughness of the tyre and wheel.

So yeah, based on the above I am willing to take the risk for now.

ryan_w-2

F) You’re a plonker

scotthunter

Ryan_W wrote:

F) You’re a plonker

Why, because you think differently from me? That's mature.

fenix

a) I wouldn't be out in the rain, I only ride on sunny days;
Ahhh - a fair weather cyclist. Yes I've heard they exist. How many days do you get out and can you risk venturing more than 5 miles from home ?
b) I almost always have mobile signal everywhere I ride, or be near mobile signal;
You really don't get far do you ?
c) I can't mount a bottle cage AND pump mount on my seat tube as it gets in the way of the crank arm & I find riding with a pump in my pocket uncomfortable;
You're doing it wrong - I've got a pump on all of my bikes with no bother.
d) Have you ever crashed and landed on your back with a metal pump in your back pocket? It expect it would hurt a lot;
Try not to crash and no need for a pump in my pocket.
e) I have cycled 3000 miles and never had a single puncture that wasn't a pinch flat / snake bite type - tubeless technology eliminates these
Ahhhh so a new cyclist then. You'll learn the hard way. You probably have had punctures but they've been sealed. All is fine until you get a nasty gash to them - I know this from experience...
f) It is not recommended to install tubes in tubeless tyres, because of the potential danger of experiencing a sudden loss of pressure due to the tube not being seated properly or the tyre being punctured. Tyres designed for tubes have a smoother inner surface, while tubeless tyres do not. As a result, tubes can chafe and puncture in a tubeless tyre due to the roughness of the tyre and wheel
I think you can do it in an emergency - otherwise what else would you do ?

keef66

scotthunter wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Crazy to not take a pump and tube with you. You could be stuck 50 miles from home with no phone signal in the rain.
If any of my mates were that foolish there's no way I'm driving out to rescue them.

What is the benefit of not taking a pump and tube ??

Ummm:

a) I wouldn't be out in the rain, I only ride on sunny days;
b) I almost always have mobile signal everywhere I ride, or be near mobile signal;
c) I can't mount a bottle cage AND pump mount on my seat tube as it gets in the way of the crank arm & I find riding with a pump in my pocket uncomfortable;
d) Have you ever crashed and landed on your back with a metal pump in your back pocket? It expect it would hurt a lot;
e) I have cycled 3000 miles and never had a single puncture that wasn't a pinch flat / snake bite type - tubeless technology eliminates these
f) It is not recommended to install tubes in tubeless tyres - tyres designed for tubes have a smoother inner surface, while tubeless tyres do not. As a result, tubes can chafe and puncture in a tubeless tyre due to the roughness of the tyre and wheel.

So yeah, based on the above I am willing to take the risk for now.

So is it a generational thing? Are you a Millennial or younger who grew up with a 4G smartphone? I'm genuinely interested.

Having reached the ripe old age of 60 I'd feel a bit of a tw@t if I marooned myself miles from home because of a puncture, but the prospect doesn't seem to concern my son at all.

drlodge

If you have tubeless, carry some worms to seal any holes that sealant won't seal. And a pump.

If that doesn't work you've got bigger problems and an inner tube won't be of any help...time to call a taxi.

scotthunter

Fenix wrote:

a) I wouldn't be out in the rain, I only ride on sunny days;
Ahhh - a fair weather cyclist. Yes I've heard they exist. How many days do you get out and can you risk venturing more than 5 miles from home ?
b) I almost always have mobile signal everywhere I ride, or be near mobile signal;
You really don't get far do you ?
c) I can't mount a bottle cage AND pump mount on my seat tube as it gets in the way of the crank arm & I find riding with a pump in my pocket uncomfortable;
You're doing it wrong - I've got a pump on all of my bikes with no bother.
d) Have you ever crashed and landed on your back with a metal pump in your back pocket? It expect it would hurt a lot;
Try not to crash and no need for a pump in my pocket.
e) I have cycled 3000 miles and never had a single puncture that wasn't a pinch flat / snake bite type - tubeless technology eliminates these
Ahhhh so a new cyclist then. You'll learn the hard way. You probably have had punctures but they've been sealed. All is fine until you get a nasty gash to them - I know this from experience...
f) It is not recommended to install tubes in tubeless tyres, because of the potential danger of experiencing a sudden loss of pressure due to the tube not being seated properly or the tyre being punctured. Tyres designed for tubes have a smoother inner surface, while tubeless tyres do not. As a result, tubes can chafe and puncture in a tubeless tyre due to the roughness of the tyre and wheel
I think you can do it in an emergency - otherwise what else would you do ?

A bit patronising. When, where and how far I ride is up to me.

But if you want to say something useful/constructive without being either rude or patronising you could advise me how to fit a Lezyne Pressure Drive to a Giant Defy frame.

scotthunter

drlodge wrote:

If you have tubeless, carry some worms to seal any holes that sealant won't seal. And a pump.

If that doesn't work you've got bigger problems and an inner tube won't be of any help...time to call a taxi.

Worms and a pump sound like a good option. Not a CO2 canister then?

keef66

scotthunter wrote:

....how to fit a Lezyne Pressure Drive to a Giant Defy frame.

My Lezyne pressure drive came with a mount that fits beneath a bottle cage so I stuck it on the downtube. Can't even see it when the bottle's in the cage. It certainly doesn't get in the way of the crank.

That's on a CR1. What's so unusual about a Defy frame then?

timothyw

On my Giant TCR I had to mount my frame pump below the seat tube bottle cage, instead of the downtube bottle cage.

drlodge

scotthunter wrote:

Worms and a pump sound like a good option. Not a CO2 canister then?

I do carry a couple of CO2 canisters just in case, but CO2 breaks down the sealant so not a good idea to use them...pump the tyres up instead. Doesn't need to be rock hard, tubeless are usable down to around 30-40 psi.

drhaggis

scotthunter wrote:

But if you want to say something useful/constructive without being either rude or patronising you could advise me how to fit a Lezyne Pressure Drive to a Giant Defy frame.

On my 2016 Defy 2 (aluminium SL frame), I have the pump mount attached to the seat post bottecage screws. I can see how the square downtube would be a problem, mind you.

keef66

DrHaggis wrote:

scotthunter wrote:

But if you want to say something useful/constructive without being either rude or patronising you could advise me how to fit a Lezyne Pressure Drive to a Giant Defy frame.

On my 2016 Defy 2 (aluminium SL frame), I have the pump mount attached to the seat post bottecage screws. I can see how the square downtube would be a problem, mind you.

My CR1 has a pretty substantial, largely square downtube but it still works..

cougie

If the worst come to the worst you should be able to lash an inner tube and pump underneath your saddle with a toe strap.

sloppyschleckonds

cougie wrote:

If the worst come to the worst you should be able to lash an inner tube and pump underneath your saddle with a toe strap.

I'm surprised noone suggested to the OP he shoves them up his ar$e

neeb

To get back to the original question:

scotthunter wrote:

To my surprise, the Defy wheel was heavier, weighing in at 1255 grams, with the Cube wheel weighing in at 1220 grams.

Is it normal that a new £3000 carbon bike should have heavier wheels than a 5 year old £700 entry level road bike? Or are disc brake wheels always going to be heavier? Does this mean that the old bike will climb better?

It probably is quite normal, assuming the new £3000 bike was bought with an eye to the current trends (discs, wider rims, wider tubless tyres, etc). These things all add weight and it all adds up, despite some of the fibs told about them by the marketeers. Discs and wider things are heavier for obvious reasons. Tubless is also heavier as the sealant weighs as much as a good lightweight inner tube and the tyres and rims are usually a bit heavier too (the idea that a tubless setup is lighter is one of the bigger marketing fibs of recent years). You won't notice the difference between a 1255g wheel and a 1220g wheel obviously, but you would notice the difference compared with a properly light non-disc, non-tubless, non-megawide setup. My front wheel with the tyre on weighs 790g (25mm tubular on a Bora One 35). My older, narrower Reynolds tubular with a 23mm tyre on weighed about 100g less than that.

scotthunter

keef66 wrote:

scotthunter wrote:

....how to fit a Lezyne Pressure Drive to a Giant Defy frame.

My Lezyne pressure drive came with a mount that fits beneath a bottle cage so I stuck it on the downtube. Can't even see it when the bottle's in the cage. It certainly doesn't get in the way of the crank.

That's on a CR1. What's so unusual about a Defy frame then?

The crank arms on the Ultegra R8000 turn too close to the frame which gets in the way of the pump mounted to the side of the seat tube. Never had this problem on my Cube Peloton which had Tiagra crank arms.

imafatman

This is a hilarious thread..... OP has taken the abuse very well. Bravo.

Let people ride how they want to ride, we're all in it for different reasons. Some people like to obsess about grams on their expensive carbon fair weather bikes and some people like to live like bums cycling around the world without showering for weeks.

I don't carry a pump generally, just a couple of CO2 canisters. I know it farks up the sealant but it gets me home. I live in London anyway so the likelihood of me being stranded is very low.

For longer rides away from home I carry a pump. If you have no room you could tape it to the top tube in a pinch.

cougie

scotthunter wrote:

Does this mean that the old bike will climb better?

Why would you be asking this as you've told us that you've tested it uphill and it's 14% faster on the new bike ?

This makes no sense.

scotthunter

cougie wrote:

scotthunter wrote:

Does this mean that the old bike will climb better?

Why would you be asking this as you've told us that you've tested it uphill and it's 14% faster on the new bike ?

This makes no sense.

Could have been coincidence? Legs may have felt more fresh those days? Only time will tell when I start comparing efforts on Strava segments.

imafatman

The lighter bike will be faster up-hill generally, even if the lighter bike has heavier wheels. However if you have lots of change in grade, lots of hairpins etc.. then perhaps the bike with the heavier wheels will struggle on those roads because the effort it takes to spin them up in comparison to the lighter wheels.

If you want a really light wheel-set you are gonna have to dig deep and get your wallet out. I suspect that stock wheels are usually designed to take a wide range of riders so aren't gonna be as light as you expect.