Weight of tubeless wheels vs non-tubeless

scotthunter

I recently brought a new bike and out of curiosity I weighed the front wheels of my new bike - a Giant Defy Advanced Pro 1 2018, and my old bike - a Cube Peloton Pro (2013), and compared them. The Giant has tubeless wheels and discs and the Cube has the normal inner tube type and caliper brakes.

To my surprise, the Defy wheel was heavier, weighing in at 1255 grams, with the Cube wheel weighing in at 1220 grams.

Is it normal that a new £3000 carbon bike should have heavier wheels than a 5 year old £700 entry level road bike? Or are disc brake wheels always going to be heavier? Does this mean that the old bike will climb better?

sloppyschleckonds

Like you Scott, we all have questions.

cooldad

So are you comparing tubed and tubeless or disc/rim braked?

Apples and giraffes.

timothyw

Disk brake wheels are almost unavoidably heavier, yes, particularly on the front - the added weight of the brake rotor, and additional spokes to accommodate braking forces being transferred from the Hub to the Rims means that you could build an equivalent rim braked wheel lighter.

This is the trade off with disk brakes.

It isn't really a fair test you've undertaken though, as your old wheel will be lighter than it was when it started - as you brake, the rim is gradually worn away to dust, similar story with tyre wear.

If you really think 35 grams of extra weight will slow you down up a climb, you probably want to have a word with yourself - and I'm sure the new bike is as a whole much lighter.

imposter2.0

I compared the weight of my shallow-section carbon tubs to the wheels off my fatbike. Absolutely stunned to discover that the fatbike wheels were heavier, despite the fatbike being newer...

scotthunter

TimothyW wrote:

If you really think 35 grams of extra weight will slow you down up a climb, you probably want to have a word with yourself - and I'm sure the new bike is as a whole much lighter.

About 0.7kg lighter overall, 8.55kg vs 9.25kg, both with pedals and 2 x bottle cages on.

keef66

Stop weighing things. The sun is out and there's barely a breath of wind. Just ride your new bike.

Would you be taking your car to bits to weigh individual components?

I have a carbon bike which according to the manufacturer has a seriously light frameset. I also have an alu framed bike with mudguards and a Brooks leather saddle. I'd hazard a guess that the carbon bike's lighter overall, but I've never been remotely interested in weighing either of them.

keef66

scotthunter wrote:

About 0.7kg lighter overall, 8.55kg vs 9.25kg, both with pedals and 2 x bottle cages on.

Now add the weight of yourself and 2 full bottles to each, and work out the % difference. 700g out of 70kg? 1%?

lakesluddite

So, newer wheels:

Deeper section I'm guessing.
Higher spoke count?
Disc rotor attached?
Tubeless tyres - presuming 60ml of sealant included?

All adds up. These are the Giant SLR1 carbon wheels as per the photo on the Giant website? Never mind the weight, they look awesome! (and surely that's the most important bit?)

scotthunter

LakesLuddite wrote:

So, newer wheels:

Deeper section I'm guessing.
Higher spoke count?
Disc rotor attached?
Tubeless tyres - presuming 60ml of sealant included?

All adds up. These are the Giant SLR1 carbon wheels as per the photo on the Giant website? Never mind the weight, they look awesome! (and surely that's the most important bit?)

This bike / these wheels:

https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Giant-Defy-Advanced-Pro-1-2018-Road-Bike_113620.htm?sku=425165&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&mkwid=spPxSiu7L_dc|pcrid|43133748173|product|425165|&gclid=CjwKCAjwlcXXBRBhEiwApfHGTZI_2DDzAG05kHycUBqt-CslrEgHKD69mJg5ONY5mvClP_nXyqtGkBoCDMcQAvD_BwE

Andymaxy

scotthunter wrote:

TimothyW wrote:

If you really think 35 grams of extra weight will slow you down up a climb, you probably want to have a word with yourself - and I'm sure the new bike is as a whole much lighter.

About 0.7kg lighter overall, 8.55kg vs 9.25kg, both with pedals and 2 x bottle cages on.

70 gram is 0.07kg, not 0.7kg, go back to first grade math you idiot.

Moonbiker

Disc brakes on road bikes are pretty pointless I agree.

scotthunter

LakesLuddite wrote:

So, newer wheels:

Deeper section I'm guessing.
Higher spoke count?
Disc rotor attached?
Tubeless tyres - presuming 60ml of sealant included?

All adds up. These are the Giant SLR1 carbon wheels as per the photo on the Giant website? Never mind the weight, they look awesome! (and surely that's the most important bit?)

Front rim is probably 819 grams as the Gavia AC1 25 tyres are 330g and the rotor is 106g.

fenix

Are you still doing this ?

Answer your own question - ride both bikes up a hill and see whats faster.

My money's on the new one - but it won't be £2300 worth of faster.

keef66

scotthunter wrote:

LakesLuddite wrote:

So, newer wheels:

Deeper section I'm guessing.
Higher spoke count?
Disc rotor attached?
Tubeless tyres - presuming 60ml of sealant included?

All adds up. These are the Giant SLR1 carbon wheels as per the photo on the Giant website? Never mind the weight, they look awesome! (and surely that's the most important bit?)

Front rim is probably 819 grams as the Gavia AC1 25 tyres are 330g and the rotor is 106g.

Stop it now! You're in danger of sucking all the enjoyment out of your new bike.

Have you worked out the weight of the spokes, nipples, hubs, axles, bearings? Don't forget the grease. Oh, and the air in the tyres.

sloppyschleckonds

keef66 wrote:

Oh, and the air in the tyres.

Co2 is lighter FWIW

veronese68

keef66 wrote:

Stop it now! You're in danger of sucking all the enjoyment out of your new bike.

I completely agree with this, then I realised maybe he doesn't enjoy riding bikes but prefers weighing things. If that's the case who are we to judge?
The only thing you can compare if you really want to is the weight of a tubeless tyre and some sealant to the weight of a tyre and tube. Then you realise that different tyres have different weights. So just compare the weight of a tube to the weight of some sealant. But different tubes have different weights, so what's the point? None at all, the advantages of tubeless are not for reasons of weight loss. Personally I wouldn't bother thinking about it, go for a ride, have a beer or get laid.

sloppyschleckonds

Veronese68 wrote:

Personally I wouldn't bother thinking about it, go for a ride, have a beer or get laid.

Preferably all three

scotthunter

keef66 wrote:

scotthunter wrote:

LakesLuddite wrote:

So, newer wheels:

Deeper section I'm guessing.
Higher spoke count?
Disc rotor attached?
Tubeless tyres - presuming 60ml of sealant included?

All adds up. These are the Giant SLR1 carbon wheels as per the photo on the Giant website? Never mind the weight, they look awesome! (and surely that's the most important bit?)

Front rim is probably 819 grams as the Gavia AC1 25 tyres are 330g and the rotor is 106g.

Stop it now! You're in danger of sucking all the enjoyment out of your new bike.

Have you worked out the weight of the spokes, nipples, hubs, axles, bearings? Don't forget the grease. Oh, and the air in the tyres.

If you haven't got anything helpful to say, other than resorting to sarcasm, then don't contribute to the discussion. No one likes a troll. You may think a few hundred grams here and there is irrelevant, but this is a forum called "Road buying advice" and yes, weight reduction is one of the main reasons why people upgrade their bikes/components and lighter components generally cost more (e.g. Ulterga vs 105) so people want to know they are getting value for money.

And before you say loose some weight, I'm 70kg and have a body fat percentage of <7%, so that's not really an option.

fenix

Scott - you can't compare the weight of two completely different wheels - rim vs disc and expect to get any sensible conclusion.

As they say - ride the bike. You want to know which climbs better ? Just climb a hill on both and you tell us - cos nobody else can tell you.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

It does seem that for some bikes, the spec is being slightly downgraded, resulting in the new season's version being either the same price or having a relatively subtle increase... Often in the wheels, because very few nice bikes come with equally nice wheels, so enevitably some of us promptly look for nice new wheels that are lighter than those provided off the peg.

keef66

scotthunter wrote:

Front rim is probably 819 grams as the Gavia AC1 25 tyres are 330g and the rotor is 106g.

Stop it now! You're in danger of sucking all the enjoyment out of your new bike.

Have you worked out the weight of the spokes, nipples, hubs, axles, bearings? Don't forget the grease. Oh, and the air in the tyres.[/quote]

If you haven't got anything helpful to say, other than resorting to sarcasm, then don't contribute to the discussion. No one likes a troll. You may think a few hundred grams here and there is irrelevant, but this is a forum called "Road buying advice" and yes, weight reduction is one of the main reasons why people upgrade their bikes/components.

And before you say loose some weight, I'm 70kg and have a body fat percentage of <7%, so that's not really an option.[/quote]

I did suggest something helpful:

"Stop it now! You're in danger of sucking all the enjoyment out of your new bike"

This is indeed in Road Buying Advice, but as far as I can tell, you've already bought the bike. It's lighter than the previous one, but still you appear to be agonising about the individual weights of it's component parts rather than just enjoying the delights of new bike ownership.

Or are you now regretting your choice? Is it not flying up the hills like you thought it would, and looking for an explanation? Or do you have so much cash to spend that you're contemplating buying lighter components for it straight away? I'm aware that people do this, and 98% of bike reviews tell you to immediately buy new wheels, but I've never really understood it. My inner Yorkshireman would never allow me to replace perfectly good components, even if it made the bike 0.5kg lighter.

And if minimising weight was one of your priorities, why did you choose a disc braked bike?

A bit of mild sarcasm doesn't amount to trolling, but if you want a forum where obsession with weight reduction is the norm, try weight weenies?

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/

scotthunter

Fenix wrote:

Scott - you can't compare the weight of two completely different wheels - rim vs disc and expect to get any sensible conclusion.

As they say - ride the bike. You want to know which climbs better ? Just climb a hill on both and you tell us - cos nobody else can tell you.

Did a local hill climb (1.2 miles with 400ft ascent) on new bike in 6:59 last week. Previous best since April on the old bike was 8:06. So it's about 14% faster then.

drhaggis

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

keef66 wrote:

Oh, and the air in the tyres.

Co2 is lighter FWIW

It is not. Check your physics and/or wikipedia.

sloppyschleckonds

DrHaggis wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

keef66 wrote:

Oh, and the air in the tyres.

Co2 is lighter FWIW

It is not. Check your physics and/or wikipedia.

FFS

imposter2.0

scotthunter wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Scott - you can't compare the weight of two completely different wheels - rim vs disc and expect to get any sensible conclusion.

As they say - ride the bike. You want to know which climbs better ? Just climb a hill on both and you tell us - cos nobody else can tell you.

Did a local hill climb (1.2 miles with 400ft ascent) on new bike in 6:59 last week. Previous best since April on the old bike was 8:06. So it's about 14% faster then.

Are you trolling?

keef66

scotthunter wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Scott - you can't compare the weight of two completely different wheels - rim vs disc and expect to get any sensible conclusion.

As they say - ride the bike. You want to know which climbs better ? Just climb a hill on both and you tell us - cos nobody else can tell you.

Did a local hill climb (1.2 miles with 400ft ascent) on new bike in 6:59 last week. Previous best since April on the old bike was 8:06. So it's about 14% faster then.

So why are you worried about the weight of the wheels?

When I built up my carbon bike I found it made me exactly 0% faster than on my old alu bike

fenix

I kind of think you tried harder. 14% is a bit much for a bike. I find new sunglasses the best performance enhancer - new pair of shades and I'm as strong as an ox.

keef66

We've already established that the combined weight of the bike plus rider has fallen by less than 1%, and climbing a hill means aerodynamics don't really matter, so I think the sunglasses effect is a more likely explanation for a 14% improvement. Or a massive tailwind.

I do like that feeling of surging up a hill or powering along on the flat with a great push from behind; gives me a glimpse of what it must be like to be a pro...

ryan_w-2

scotthunter wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Scott - you can't compare the weight of two completely different wheels - rim vs disc and expect to get any sensible conclusion.

As they say - ride the bike. You want to know which climbs better ? Just climb a hill on both and you tell us - cos nobody else can tell you.

Did a local hill climb (1.2 miles with 400ft ascent) on new bike in 6:59 last week. Previous best since April on the old bike was 8:06. So it's about 14% faster then.

This is fcuking gold. Thank you.

scotthunter

Ryan_W wrote:

scotthunter wrote:

Fenix wrote:

Scott - you can't compare the weight of two completely different wheels - rim vs disc and expect to get any sensible conclusion.

As they say - ride the bike. You want to know which climbs better ? Just climb a hill on both and you tell us - cos nobody else can tell you.

Did a local hill climb (1.2 miles with 400ft ascent) on new bike in 6:59 last week. Previous best since April on the old bike was 8:06. So it's about 14% faster then.

This is fcuking gold. Thank you.

You don't believe me? It was honestly 2 maximum efforts, 1 month apart, two different bikes. Fitness hasn't changed in a month. Like people have said, weight loss is negligible, but there is the stiffer wheelset/frame, less rolling resistance due to tubeless tyres, upgraded pedals, less weight in the wheels (in the outer part at least). Then you have the new chain, new cassette, quicker gear changes to respond to changes in gradient. It all adds up. I've done that hill climb 4 times in the last month; the two fastest times were on the new bike.