Calling Campag EPS experts - is this too much of a gap?

dstev55
dstev55 Posts: 742
edited May 2018 in Workshop
Hi all,

Had my Bianchi in for a full strip down at my LBS a couple of months ago. Since then ive had issues with chain being thrown off the outside of the big front ring when going from small to big. I'm running Campag Super Record EPS v2. I've done a zero reset on the front derailleur and I thought I'd cracked it but it happened again on Sunday. As I believe there's nothing more I can do with the EPS config I'm now wondering whether the gap between the front derailleur and big ring is too large. What do you think?

20180417_104907_zpsblkgjjis.jpg
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Comments

  • essex-commuter
    essex-commuter Posts: 2,188
    dstev55 wrote:
    Hi all,

    Had my Bianchi in for a full strip down at my LBS a couple of months ago. Since then ive had issues with chain being thrown off the outside of the big front ring when going from small to big. I'm running Campag Super Record EPS v2. I've done a zero reset on the front derailleur and I thought I'd cracked it but it happened again on Sunday. As I believe there's nothing more I can do with the EPS config I'm now wondering whether the gap between the front derailleur and big ring is too large. What do you think?

    20180417_104907_zpsblkgjjis.jpg

    I don't run EPS so cannot comment on that aspect, but on all my cable operated bikes I run the FD much closer than that.

    I'm sure the recommended gap is around 2mm.
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    Agree gap is large - I always run my front mech cage as low as possible, 1.5-2 mm clearance at the tallest teeth.
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    Bloody hell think I've broke my front derailleur now :? :x

    Dropped it about halfway but it wasn't running parallel with the chainring so I turned what I thought was a screw that adjusted the angle but as I turned it (with little force) and snap and what I think was a washer fell out (something fell out and there was a washer on the floor).

    The screw now just spins and can be pulled out so far by hand.

    20180418_192100_zpsc54ihpig.jpg

    It's the screw/pin in the centre of picture that the derailleur pivots on.
  • pilot_pete
    pilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    Campagnolo technical manual says gap should be between 1.5-3.0mm

    PP
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    Campagnolo technical manual says gap should be between 1.5-3.0mm

    PP

    I wish that was my only issue now mate!
  • Blimey! Just seen the price of a new one!!
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    errr - did i read that right on Wiggle: £530 for a front mech?
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    errr - did i read that right on Wiggle: £530 for a front mech?

    Yes you did :?

    I certainly wouldn't have been playing around with it if I had known!
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    dstev55 wrote:
    errr - did i read that right on Wiggle: £530 for a front mech?

    Yes you did :?

    I certainly wouldn't have been playing around with it if I had known!

    bloody hell - that is farcically ridiculous. ouch.

    is the mech action that much better than mechanical SR?
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Maybe the washer was a snap-ring that's popped out? Seriously I'd take it to somebody who knows about the things and see if it can be fixed.

    I'd not be randomly fiddling with a £500+ front mech unless I knew exactly what I was doing :shock:
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    is the mech action that much better than mechanical SR?

    Not now it isn't :oops: :oops:
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    keef66 wrote:
    Maybe the washer was a snap-ring that's popped out? Seriously I'd take it to somebody who knows about the things and see if it can be fixed.

    I'd not be randomly fiddling with a £500+ front mech unless I knew exactly what I was doing :shock:

    Well I've learnt the hard way, although I'm hoping you're right and it's just something that's popped out and can be put back in. I hardly turned it to be honest, not sure the small amount of force that I applied could have broken something.

    It's in the bike shop (who have Campag qualifications) now.
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    what did the shop say? Id imagine there are spares available for a piece of kit like that (if indeed it needs them)
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Svetty wrote:
    is the mech action that much better than mechanical SR?

    Not now it isn't :oops: :oops:

    Good point well presented :)
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Sorry dude, but I'm still in shock at how expensive it is.

    And people buy these things?
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    Blimey - that's twice the price of SRAM and Shimano. Amazing.

    Good luck getting it fixed !
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    Sorry dude, but I'm still in shock at how expensive it is.

    And people buy these things?

    So am I mate, so am I...

    Seriously looking at switching to mechanical, I could buy the levers, front and rear mech new for less than I could sell my EPS bits for second hand, and that includes a broken front derailleur!

    The only thing is Campag being Campag there's all sorts of compatibility issues between pre 2015 and post 2015 stuff.
  • crankycrank
    crankycrank Posts: 1,830
    Well...as the part that snapped was a screw rather than a rivet I would guess that it's replaceable and the part that fell out was some kind of nut that sat in the recess of the body with maybe a washer included. I just say this as there may be hope that Campag has the part available (they sure as hell should for the price of that thing!) and an easy fix. I'm curious to hear what the shop says. Not sure if the Athena is compatible but price is a bit more sane if new is needed. https://www.merlincycles.com/campagnolo ... 70917.html
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,803
    Firstly - that's far too high above the front chain ring. Any Campagnolo accredited LBS should know how to set it correctly. There's even a tool to do it (UTFD120). I'm sure that Greame from Velotech (who are the people who give Campagnolo accreditation to UK bike shops) saw this he'd weep. Which makes me think that your LBS know feck all about the brand.

    Secondly - you just gave you bike back to the above. Well done.

    Thirdly - if you need to take your bike to a bike shop to get it stripped down and rebuilt you shouldn't be going anywhere near an EPS mech with any kind of tool.

    To the tired old tyre kickers who just came in here to moan/gloat - unlike Di2 which was rushed out complete with bugs, followed by multiple versions over the years, apart from the power unit and control box, EPS mechs and shifters haven't needed to be changed in any way since they were released in 2011 because they were tested and designed to perfection. I've had my Record EPS since 2013, it's done tens of thousands of miles in all kinds of weather and it's never failed me once. To use a tacky phrase, it's 'bomproof'. It's easily the best groupset I've ever owned.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,259
    The gap is a bit large, but I wouldn't say is a canyon... I think mine (not a Campagnolo and fully mechanical) it's probably like yours and works flawlessly.I like to keep the gap a bit wider than the manufacturers suggest to be able to cope with a bit of muck and crap which inevitably infests the drivetrain in winter.

    It might be that the cage is not well aligned with the chainring, resulting in an "overthrow" of the chain.
    left the forum March 2023
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Firstly - that's far too high above the front chain ring. Any Campagnolo accredited LBS should know how to set it correctly. There's even a tool to do it (UTFD120). I'm sure that Greame from Velotech (who are the people who give Campagnolo accreditation to UK bike shops) saw this he'd weep. Which makes me think that your LBS know feck all about the brand.

    Secondly - you just gave you bike back to the above. Well done.

    Thirdly - if you need to take your bike to a bike shop to get it stripped down and rebuilt you shouldn't be going anywhere near an EPS mech with any kind of tool.

    .


    well you're a patronising old sod aren't you. bet OP was overjoyed to read your post.

    op dude: i'm still in shock. personally i'd flog the whole lot and go SR mechanical.
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,803
    well you're a patronising old sod aren't you. bet OP was overjoyed to read your post.

    Not your best.
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    Firstly - that's far too high above the front chain ring. Any Campagnolo accredited LBS should know how to set it correctly. There's even a tool to do it (UTFD120). I'm sure that Greame from Velotech (who are the people who give Campagnolo accreditation to UK bike shops) saw this he'd weep. Which makes me think that your LBS know feck all about the brand.

    Secondly - you just gave you bike back to the above. Well done.

    Thirdly - if you need to take your bike to a bike shop to get it stripped down and rebuilt you shouldn't be going anywhere near an EPS mech with any kind of tool.

    To the tired old tyre kickers who just came in here to moan/gloat - unlike Di2 which was rushed out complete with bugs, followed by multiple versions over the years, apart from the power unit and control box, EPS mechs and shifters haven't needed to be changed in any way since they were released in 2011 because they were tested and designed to perfection. I've had my Record EPS since 2013, it's done tens of thousands of miles in all kinds of weather and it's never failed me once. To use a tacky phrase, it's 'bomproof'. It's easily the best groupset I've ever owned.

    The guys I take it to are in the process of becoming a Campagnolo accredited shop. I know theyve already dine some of the training. As soon as I handed the bike over he said it is likely he will need to send the front mech off to Graeme at Velotech.
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    Well.... I was very lucky with this as despite the bolt that I broke not being available as an official spare part, Velotech fortunately had one and I got my FD fixed (I'm guessing it has come from a FD they have broken down).

    I have my bike back however I am still experiencing some problems. The first time I went out it shifted flawlessly. Then I did a long hilly ride and the FD threw the chain off the front ring 3 times in a row!!!

    I've brought it in a total of 4 clicks and it seems to be OK for now but I am certainly very apprehensive every time I need to go from small to big front ring.

    My LBS are going to Velotech for training next week and have asked to take my bike which is fair enough, hopefully the experts can crack my Italian puzzle!
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    fingers crossed!
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    Firstly - that's far too high above the front chain ring. Any Campagnolo accredited LBS should know how to set it correctly. There's even a tool to do it (UTFD120). I'm sure that Greame from Velotech (who are the people who give Campagnolo accreditation to UK bike shops) saw this he'd weep. Which makes me think that your LBS know feck all about the brand.

    Secondly - you just gave you bike back to the above. Well done.

    Thirdly - if you need to take your bike to a bike shop to get it stripped down and rebuilt you shouldn't be going anywhere near an EPS mech with any kind of tool.

    To the tired old tyre kickers who just came in here to moan/gloat - unlike Di2 which was rushed out complete with bugs, followed by multiple versions over the years, apart from the power unit and control box, EPS mechs and shifters haven't needed to be changed in any way since they were released in 2011 because they were tested and designed to perfection. I've had my Record EPS since 2013, it's done tens of thousands of miles in all kinds of weather and it's never failed me once. To use a tacky phrase, it's 'bomproof'. It's easily the best groupset I've ever owned.

    It might be the best groupset YOUVE ever owned but it isnt the best groupset. That honour is of course Shimano's. :lol:
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,325
    dstev55 wrote:
    Well.... I was very lucky with this as despite the bolt that I broke not being available as an official spare part, Velotech fortunately had one and I got my FD fixed (I'm guessing it has come from a FD they have broken down).
    That's a £500 sigh of relief right there.
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    I've got Campag Chorus EPS v2 on my Massive Attack, it took quite some fettling to get it dialled in, and sometimes the FD throws the chain off the big chain ring too, when changing from small to large chainring. To help prevent this (but not 100% cure), I tweaked the FD adjustment so its slightly inboard, IIRC there's a single adjustment which is the left-right placement when in the small chainring, so move it inwards a bit. Not too much mind, as otherwise the chain will rub on the FD guide when in top gear.

    And yes that gap is a bit large.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • Matthewfalle
    Matthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    Firstly - that's far too high above the front chain ring. Any Campagnolo accredited LBS should know how to set it correctly. There's even a tool to do it (UTFD120). I'm sure that Greame from Velotech (who are the people who give Campagnolo accreditation to UK bike shops) saw this he'd weep. Which makes me think that your LBS know feck all about the brand.

    Secondly - you just gave you bike back to the above. Well done.

    Thirdly - if you need to take your bike to a bike shop to get it stripped down and rebuilt you shouldn't be going anywhere near an EPS mech with any kind of tool.

    To the tired old tyre kickers who just came in here to moan/gloat - unlike Di2 which was rushed out complete with bugs, followed by multiple versions over the years, apart from the power unit and control box, EPS mechs and shifters haven't needed to be changed in any way since they were released in 2011 because they were tested and designed to perfection. I've had my Record EPS since 2013, it's done tens of thousands of miles in all kinds of weather and it's never failed me once. To use a tacky phrase, it's 'bomproof'. It's easily the best groupset I've ever owned.

    It might be the best groupset YOUVE ever owned but it isnt the best groupset. That honour is of course SRAM's :lol:

    FTFY
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Without seeing the bike it is not possible to say. The is larger than what I would set but it could mech alignment.

    An EPS record front mech has an rrp of £439. And that should work.
    There might be old stock of a V2 era SR FD at whiskers. That might save a bit.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.