Why am I feeling it more in the backs of my legs when I push it on the flat?

CptKernow
CptKernow Posts: 467
edited May 2018 in Training, fitness and health
I've noticed recently when I get down on the drops or elbows bent on the hoods and put out a big effort on the flat it's my hamstrings that start burning - barely feeling it in the quads. Conversely, on the turbo I can definitely feel it in the quads when I do a sweetspot / threshold interval.

Also I'm getting a bit of a niggle in the knee. Kind of hard to put my finger on exactly where in the knee but I sometimes feel it when I pull my leg back or if I bend over forward with a bent knee. Seems to affect both sides so I'm guessing (hoping) it is a fit issue.

Any ideas what I might need to tweak. Am intending on getting another bike fit soonish but finding the time/money is tricky at the moment...

Comments

  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Dont p iss money away on another person's opinion of what is "right" because I'm charging you 200 quid.

    1) There should be NO difference between work on the turbo and on the road
    2) Adjust things like saddle height/setback etc etc 1 at a time.. but really , really how many soddin things can you actually change?

    3) You can work it out yourself and SAVE money , you aint a complete novice.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Same bike on the turbo ?
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    CptKernow wrote:
    Also I'm getting a bit of a niggle in the knee. Kind of hard to put my finger on exactly where in the knee

    Try running your finger more slowly across the affected area
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • CptKernow
    CptKernow Posts: 467
    cougie wrote:
    Same bike on the turbo ?
    No, set up more or less the same, but I might have a go at getting a more exact copy.

    Also, I probably don't try for such an aggressive position on the turbo - generally on the hoods at the most.

    I do still get a bit of the knee niggle from riding on the turbo though.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    I would say it's the saddle height.

    Be careful as hamstring injuries are a nightmare. So spend time to get the set up right.
  • sir_les
    sir_les Posts: 13
    Yes sounds like the saddle is too high. Maybe lower it a few mm and test again?
  • CptKernow
    CptKernow Posts: 467
    Tried to figure out what was going on today when riding the bike. Not sure it is down to different set ups on turbo / road bike. I suspect it might be partly due to doing most of my turbo time in a less aggressive position.

    When riding hard on the road it feels like a lot more power is going into the bottom part of the pedal stroke. I don't really get this feeling on the turbo - more just the pushing down.

    I suppose the lesson is to make sure you replicate and train specific road positions on the trainer...
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    CptKernow wrote:
    Tried to figure out what was going on today when riding the bike. Not sure it is down to different set ups on turbo / road bike. I suspect it might be partly due to doing most of my turbo time in a less aggressive position.

    When riding hard on the road it feels like a lot more power is going into the bottom part of the pedal stroke. I don't really get this feeling on the turbo - more just the pushing down.

    I suppose the lesson is to make sure you replicate and train specific road positions on the trainer...

    Tbh, given this info, I would say you are just straining more outside due to the resistance of the road surface, terrain and the wind.

    It could be you are trying to put out more power due to this, which perhaps is putting strain on your lower back and causing the hamstring pain.

    You could try increasing cadence to maintain speed to see if that makes a difference when in the drops.
    I would strongly suggest you check your saddle height and position though.
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    If your position is more bent-over (eg to be more aero) you will be stretching the hamstrings more and thus they will more active. On the turbo you are likely to be more upright and hence using the quads a bit more.
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    Svetty wrote:
    If your position is more bent-over (eg to be more aero) you will be stretching the hamstrings more and thus they will more active. On the turbo you are likely to be more upright and hence using the quads a bit more.

    When you go on the drops your upper body position changes and stretches out but your leg motion/ action barely alters.

    Have a retul fit (or equivalent) and you will see from the video/ photos that your leg motion remains pretty much the same in or out of the drops.

    However, being on the drops does put more strain through the lower back, which of course is connected to the hamstrings, so in this sense it can affect them. This is where you need your glutes working.

    If you are feeling it in your quads indoor and hamstrings outdoor then you are likely using different pedal stroke actions, which indicates a position issue (likely saddle height) or perhaps lazy glutes, or both.
  • CptKernow
    CptKernow Posts: 467
    I dropped the saddle a touch today. Different sort of ride so no hard, head-down flat action. I did feel a little cramped around the hips so might try putting the saddle back up and moving it forward.

    Think I'll put the bars up 5mm too and see how that feels.

    It's getting to suck a bit when it feels like all the niggles are holding me back rather than (traditional) fitness...
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    CptKernow wrote:
    I dropped the saddle a touch today. Different sort of ride so no hard, head-down flat action. I did feel a little cramped around the hips so might try putting the saddle back up and moving it forward.

    Think I'll put the bars up 5mm too and see how that feels.

    It's getting to suck a bit when it feels like all the niggles are holding me back rather than (traditional) fitness...

    I know it's frustrating but it's probably better to have a good bike fit from an experienced fitter.

    If you do keep tweaking things yourself you may end up like this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mdwAkWvWMw
  • naavt
    naavt Posts: 226
    Are you using same crank length on both bikes?
  • CptKernow
    CptKernow Posts: 467
    naavt wrote:
    Are you using same crank length on both bikes?
    Yep, same crank length.

    I've put the saddle forward 5mm and raised the bars 5mm and it feels generally, a lot better.

    I suspect the difference in feeling is more down to being in a more aggressive position on the road when putting out similar watts. I figure lower is going to stretch the hamstrings more and that's what I'm feeling.

    Will probably get a bike fit soon though - try and iron out a few other niggles...
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    SloppySchleckonds wrote:
    CptKernow wrote:
    Also I'm getting a bit of a niggle in the knee. Kind of hard to put my finger on exactly where in the knee

    Try running your finger more slowly across the affected area
    or use bigger fingers.
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    When you get in the drops you are bending over further, a bit like trying to touch your toes. So, what is the limiting factor when trying to tough your toes? that's right, its your hamstrings, just like ridding a bike in the drops. Try some stretches twice a day and before a ride and it'll be fine. If not the saddles too high.
  • CptKernow
    CptKernow Posts: 467
    Quick update. Had a bike fit on Tues - as suggested the saddle was a tad on the high side - 20mm to be precise! Explains a few other things too....

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