How do you keep your composure?

mtb-idle

How do you keep your composure?

It kind of depends what type of person you are already. calm and measured or hot-headed and blows their top easily. I'm sure we have all worked with the latter.

Fortunately I am the former so it kind of comes naturally to me but as someone up there says, before chasing someone down the road it's worth spending a moment considering:

- what are you going to do when you catch them?
- what if they are bigger, uglier, meaner than you?
- is a 80kg mass of flesh and bone and soft matter ever going to come off best against a metric tonne or two of vehicle?

Lots of other stuff too but just considering the above will give you a chance to calm down.

Just note the reg and report to the Met Police via the simple online tool (assuming you are London-based) and move on with your life. It's too short to get involved with people like that.

The Met are unlikely to do anything based on a single report but if said driver is a repeat offender and gets reported enough or is involved in a future incident where something serious really does happen they are unlikely to get away with the 'SMIDSY' or 'e wouldn't 'urt a fly guv' defence beloved of rotter's mothers everywhere.

rick_chasey

DMHR2018 wrote:

No, not had my head kicked in as a result, and yes, I am slightly on the big side, so maybe my experience of this is different to others.

FWIW I was riding with a friend who's a built 190 and I was up ahead (I’m 168cm and less than 60 kilos). A driver was getting angry I was slowing him down, so did the whole pulling up alongside, drifting the car towards the curb routine.

Eventually came to a halt, and he got out, after declaring he was going to kick my head in. At which point, my mate caught up and without my friend even saying anything the driver got back in the car and drove off.

I reckon with a big enough data set you’d see a linear inverse correlation between size and levels of abuse.

hopkinb

Rick Chasey wrote:

I reckon with a big enough data set you’d see a linear inverse correlation between size and levels of abuse.

For example, based on posts here, I reckon Ryan_W would actually eat anyone who gave him grief on the road, assuming they could catch up with him in order to give him grief.

kingdav

Hopkinb, please can you make every effort to capture this on your cinecamera apparatus? Sounds like quite a spectacle!

defever

Rick Chasey wrote:

DMHR2018 wrote:

No, not had my head kicked in as a result, and yes, I am slightly on the big side, so maybe my experience of this is different to others.

FWIW I was riding with a friend who's a built 190 and I was up ahead (I’m 168cm and less than 60 kilos). A driver was getting angry I was slowing him down, so did the whole pulling up alongside, drifting the car towards the curb routine.

Eventually came to a halt, and he got out, after declaring he was going to kick my head in. At which point, my mate caught up and without my friend even saying anything the driver got back in the car and drove off.

I reckon with a big enough data set you’d see a linear inverse correlation between size and levels of abuse.

Interesting observation but there seem to be some truth to size-abuse association. I'm not that far off from Rick's figure, but I never felt my figure as influencing factor to abuse. I'd say attitude / behaviour, posture, facial expression, tone / choise of words, number of companions equally influence the probability of potential abuse? It's a bit sad to realise bigger figure picking on smaller person. Maybe he felt I was a smaller target?

Maybe I should get Michelin man suit. Then I look bigger and I can bounce off any physical contact.


Joke aside, I will keep this in mind (thanks reformedfatty):

reformedfatty wrote:

For me, composure comes from asking myself 'what do you want' when something happens - for me commuting, that's getting to the end of my journey safe and well.

If someone does a close pass or I sense them trying to pass dangerously - its that 'what do you want' - I want to get to work/home safely. For the immediate action, that safety comes from that bad driver being nowhere near me, or if they have to be near me, being somewhere I can see them so I can avoid their rubbish driving. This means I don't pass them unless they are stuck in traffic and I can get well clear. If they're behind me, it means I get out of their way as soon as I can to avoid being hit during their crap overtake. I shouldn't have to, but if it's a choice of being delayed vs squished, I'll get out the way.

The follow on action where the situation warrants it, is to report to the police. This means that the driver is more likely to be disqualified, therefore not on the road, trying to run me over when I'm commuting.

Perhaps I was getting distracted more on other road users' actions lately rather than the purpose of commuting by bike. In fact, I remember feeling, as I left home, more like a chore to commute by cycle than actually enjoy cycling. Interesting insight, haven't realised this.

HAPPY cycling everyone (including myself)!

veronese68

defever wrote:

Maybe I should get Michelin man suit.

Is that not you in your avatar then?
Seriously, I think Rick is right in what he says about size. The type that will use their car as a weapon are generally a bullying type, a bully will run away from a bigger bloke that stands up to them.

wolfsbane2k

Veronese68 wrote:

Seriously, I think Rick is right in what he says about size. The type that will use their car as a weapon are generally a bullying type, a bully will be more likely to run away from a bigger bloke that stands up to them.

FTFY. Small person syndrome is alive and well, especially in those that drive Chelsea tractors, WV, or pickups, in my experience.

defever wrote:

Grow-up

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

As mentioned above, we have probably all been that shouty cyclist in the past

With anything, we become wiser with experience. Just like new drivers, do we generally start out making mistakes and causing un/intentional inconvenience / nuisance just to make a point, but eventually maturity develops and drive sensibly

"Grow-up" is the wrong message. Learn from it, tame what you can, and direct what you can't into a more productive/less confrontational message feels a better set. It's taken me 2 years of daily riding to get to that state... and I've still had police tell me my initial response of shouting out the reg# can be seen as confrontational and escalating the issue.

veronese68

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Seriously, I think Rick is right in what he says about size. The type that will use their car as a weapon are generally a bullying type, a bully will be more likely to run away from a bigger bloke that stands up to them.

FTFY. Small person syndrome is alive and well, especially in those that drive Chelsea tractors, WV, or pickups, in my experience.

No, you haven’t fixed anything you missed my point. People that will bully others whilst in their big cars will run (drive) away rather than fight someone bigger than them, as evidenced by Rick’s anecdote with his larger friend.

defever

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

defever wrote:

Grow-up

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

As mentioned above, we have probably all been that shouty cyclist in the past

With anything, we become wiser with experience. Just like new drivers, do we generally start out making mistakes and causing un/intentional inconvenience / nuisance just to make a point, but eventually maturity develops and drive sensibly

"Grow-up" is the wrong message. Learn from it, tame what you can, and direct what you can't into a more productive/less confrontational message feels a better set. It's taken me 2 years of daily riding to get to that state... and I've still had police tell me my initial response of shouting out the reg# can be seen as confrontational and escalating the issue.

Thanks Wolfsbane2k, I wasn't quite sure how to sum it up feeling "Grow-up" isn't quite the phrase. "Learn from experience" is more adequate as you suggested.

Now edited; I just wanted to summarise everyone's valuable comments for my reference so that I can revisit that post from time to time.

Sometimes a lot of valuable comments and suggestions get buried / lost under long thread so I wanted to highlight them.

philcubed

I had a close pass on Sunday, I waved my arm in remonstration. The driver stopped at the next junction and we had a discussion about the incident. He couldn't understand that I was taking the lane as I felt it was dangerous for him to pass me. He thought I was just blocking him. I advised him to read his Highway Code. We didn't anywhere with the discussion, but at least neither of us swore at each other, which is a positive, as I am usually the hotheaded kind in this situation. Maybe I should carry cards with picture of the police demonstrating the safe passing distance to give a driver in this situation. Then there would be no discussion, just hand them the card and go.

wolfsbane2k

Veronese68 wrote:

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Seriously, I think Rick is right in what he says about size. The type that will use their car as a weapon are generally a bullying type, a bully will be more likely to run away from a bigger bloke that stands up to them.

FTFY. Small person syndrome is alive and well, especially in those that drive Chelsea tractors, WV, or pickups, in my experience.

No, you haven’t fixed anything you missed my point. People that will bully others whilst in their big cars will run (drive) away rather than fight someone bigger than them, as evidenced by Rick’s anecdote with his larger friend.

I'm 275lb/125kg and 6ft6/~2m tall second row rugby player.
I've had more little runts climb out of cars and have a go at me then I care to count.

rick_chasey

You have a camera on your helmet though right?

wolfsbane2k

Rick Chasey wrote:

You have a camera on your helmet though right?

Only recently

rick_chasey

I have a separate theory for camera wearers/wannabe stasi men which I would probably have to control for, though I can't say I've corrected for coverage bias; i.e. we only hear about the ones who post videos of various road rage incidents online.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

I take a TUE dose of beta blockers daily.

veronese68

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

I'm 275lb/125kg and 6ft6/~2m tall second row rugby player.
I've had more little runts climb out of cars and have a go at me then I care to count.

Your experiences are different to mine. I'm a little over 6ft and find people are very brave in their metal box, but on the few occasions people have got out of cars they've backed off with threats of violence if I bother stopping. Except the bloke that came at me waving a hammer, I didn't hang around for that one and was very glad the traffic worked in my favour. :shock:

okgo

A good mate of mine swears by the "act totally mental and unhinged, nobody picks a fight with someone who looks like they care about nothing" - it works for him.

wolfsbane2k

Rick Chasey wrote:

I have a separate theory for camera wearers/wannabe stasi men which I would probably have to control for, though I can't say I've corrected for coverage bias; i.e. we only hear about the ones who post videos of various road rage incidents online.

Aye, that I understand, and we've discussed in the past, but my youtube channel is clear of such events, but that's not to say I've not used it to report incidents. I realised very quickly that if I used it to report every close pass and mobile phone user, I'd never get off the phone to 101.

Veronese68 wrote:

Your experiences are different to mine. I'm a little over 6ft and find people are very brave in their metal box, but on the few occasions people have got out of cars they've backed off with threats of violence if I bother stopping. Except the bloke that came at me waving a hammer, I didn't hang around for that one and was very glad the traffic worked in my favour. :shock:

Indeed, I've had a few return to their boxes once I've stood upright, but some just seem to like the challenge. Perhaps it's just the south coast locals...
The events like the hammer wielding maniac are what I've got the camera for; so that if I am caught out the police know who to go visit.

veronese68

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

The events like the hammer wielding maniac are what I've got the camera for; so that if I am caught out the police know who to go visit.

I bought a camera that was heavily discounted in the January sales, I haven't even taken it out of the box yet as I think I'd rather let it go and move on. Looking at footage, reporting it if necessary just seems like it makes you dwell on the incident too much. As you say you can't report every incident. Also, if my wife saw some of the footage she'd never stop worrying.

wolfsbane2k

Veronese68 wrote:

Wolfsbane2k wrote:

The events like the hammer wielding maniac are what I've got the camera for; so that if I am caught out the police know who to go visit.

I bought a camera that was heavily discounted in the January sales, I haven't even taken it out of the box yet as I think I'd rather let it go and move on. Looking at footage, reporting it if necessary just seems like it makes you dwell on the incident too much. As you say you can't report every incident. Also, if my wife saw some of the footage she'd never stop worrying.

I'm generally a glass half empty guy anyway, so passing the responsibility off to the police is a positive way of gaining closure for me.

Yeah, my OH sees nothing.

fenix

DMHR2018 wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

DMHR2018 wrote:

I agree with all of the sensible advice above in theory. Would love to have the composure to implement it myself... However, for me what it comes down to is that this person has put your life at risk for no justifiable reason whatsoever. If someone puts my life at risk in any other avenue of life the least they can expect is an earful.

So you try to solve the problem by putting your life at additional risk by escalating the situation?

Imagine you're walking down a dark alley and someone much bigger than you jumps out of the shadows and grabs you. You manage to break free. Do you:
a) Remonstrate with them; tell them how dangerous they are; maybe use the C word?
b) Run away?

Not really comparable situations are they. Your alleyway attacker evidently intends you malice, your dangerous driver is more likely to just be an ignorant twit.

Do you back down from all confrontation in life for fear of reprisals? I doubt it, and if so, how does that effect the self esteem I wonder? Sometimes you just need to stand up for yourself and (in this particular case) your right to use the road without being bullied off it.

DMHR - are you a new cyclist ? I've been riding for almost 40 years now and I learnt as a teen that it gets pretty dangerous escalating things with lunatics in cars. You've no idea who or what they are - just that they can easily kill or maim you without so much as getting out of breath.

DMHR2018

Fenix wrote:

DMHR - are you a new cyclist ? I've been riding for almost 40 years now and I learnt as a teen that it gets pretty dangerous escalating things with lunatics in cars. You've no idea who or what they are - just that they can easily kill or maim you without so much as getting out of breath.

Yes, new enough - was always casually interested but have recently massively increased my cycling to train for an event. Think I've kind of explained my thinking on this already though... to me these people are just bullies, so I react to them accordingly based on my own past experience of dealing with people who like to bully. And in my experience a passive approach doesn't work for me. Anyway, not my post, but I will try to take your advice and be more measured in future.

defever

DMHR2018 wrote:

Fenix wrote:

DMHR - are you a new cyclist ? I've been riding for almost 40 years now and I learnt as a teen that it gets pretty dangerous escalating things with lunatics in cars. You've no idea who or what they are - just that they can easily kill or maim you without so much as getting out of breath.

Yes, new enough - was always casually interested but have recently massively increased my cycling to train for an event. Think I've kind of explained my thinking on this already though... to me these people are just bullies, so I react to them accordingly based on my own past experience of dealing with people who like to bully. And in my experience a passive approach doesn't work for me. Anyway, not my post, but I will try to take your advice and be more measured in future.

I've pondered on this over night. Yes, you never know who's behind the wheel (prime example, and equally very tragic "failed system" story: Man guilty of Donald Lock 'road rage' killing). But at the same time, being bullied after being put in potential danger (i.e. very close pass, dangerous driving, etc), I sympathise for standing up for yourself. I'm sure everyone has some sort of mechanism (whether be in conscience or subconsciously) to make judgement of assessing the risk of further contact with an alleged perpetrator.

Looking back I was lucky he was just shouty (the actual physical contact was surprisingly minor; I guess we were both travelling the same direction at very similar speed and wasn't an oncoming head-on impact), but had he been that poor victim of the system on the link... This is when I think its definitely not worth for me to put my life at stake, my wife or my significant others.

But then again, what's the probability of such an atrocious encounter? Probably low, but if it does happen, the outcome is devastating. Again, not worth it.

But then should we let bullies walk all over us? There's police, justice system, often-forgotten-good-humanity, and I dare say God's strength to help us overcome any trouble. So is it worth it? Probably not to certain extent.

So I will keep my composure and carry on. And pray for the poor souls (they can be saved, they say).

tgotb

DMHR2018 wrote:

Think I've kind of explained my thinking on this already though... to me these people are just bullies, so I react to them accordingly based on my own past experience of dealing with people who like to bully. And in my experience a passive approach doesn't work for me. Anyway, not my post, but I will try to take your advice and be more measured in future.

Bit off the original topic, but...

Doesn't the right way to deal with bullies depend on whether you're likely to encounter them again? So you may need to stand up to bullies (in a measured and mature way, obv) at school, in the workplace etc, because if you don't they'll just carry on pushing you around. If you're never going to see that particular bully again, they're not going to be able to push you around, so why bother?

Bear in mind that, by standing up to the bully, you're probably not going to stop them being a bully; they'll just go and find someone else to pick on. In fact, by successfully standing up to them you're probably going to push their self esteem a little bit lower, and that low self esteem is most likely the reason they're a bully in the first place. So, if you're never going to encounter that person again, the best outcome for all concerned is for you to walk away.

mamil314

The raging nutters will, eventually, be replaced by a few grams of silicone and metal traces on PCB, but they are not going easily:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... francisco/

The Nodder

My 2 strategies to keep my composure, from 17 years of commuting:

1. Be mindful of my ignorance. Yes, the driver that the OP encountered very likely was a deeply inadequate human being, but you don’t know his circumstances. Maybe a speeding driver has his wife in labour on the back seat. Maybe a hot-tempered, emotionally unstable driver just lost his job, or his child. Maybe, like many of our grandparents/parents, the negligent driver is in that difficult time after having been an excellent courteous driver but before realising that age has caught up with him and he is no longer safe to drive.

2. Be snobbish/condescending. That demented ball of rage in a metal box may have endangered me, but no harm was done and my transport continues to make me happier, healthier, leaner, stronger etc. while his car makes him fatter and angrier. He will die from a heart attack or stroke before I die in a road traffic accident. How can I feel anything but pity for his angry little face?