How do you keep your composure?

defever
defever Posts: 171
edited March 2018 in Commuting chat
***LONG POST***

Hello fellow commuters,

I'm sad to say that today, for the first time in 2,000+miles of commuting on bike, I had a physical contact with a car. Fortunately no injury, no damage, just the typical agressive communication from a car driver. I was cycling through a town road in secondary position as per usual, a car passes really close ("I could have touched the wing mirror" close) at speed perceptively over the indicated speed limit. I felt threatened, and got the adrenaline rush (upon reflection reflection: mistake #1).

I caught up with the car at the next roundabout (1/4mile or so later). I went up next to the car (driver's side), driver clearly expecting me to react, I waved my forefinger to gesture "no no". Simultaneously he gave me the finger (window closed) and shouted "(the usual swear word) OFF!". That hit my nerve so I went in front and carried on (upon reflection: definitely a mistake #2). He beeps, revs, does anything to shun me.

We take the same exit off the round about (first left), driver still revving right behind me and tries anything and everything to overtake me after the exist (uphill, pinch point + central island). I take primary position to avoid drain covers and uneven surface on the left 1/3 of the lane (upon reflection: mistake #3). That really wound the driver up, he barges through on my right side, and making contact with me on the passenger side fender and folding the wing-mirror. He carries on (with the wing mirror folded from the contact), only to stop at the next traffic light 200m away from this point.

Obviously I catch up. Passenger window winding down as I approach. I kept a distance (me on the left lane to go straight, him on the right lane to turn right), taking a mental note of his registration (RE16, SUV, Ford Ecosport/Kuga/Edge type). I get the typical aggressive shouting "I'll (swears) smash your head in if you touch my car again you (swears)' (swears)!! You're (swears), You're (swears) (swears)!! You're (carries on with predictable swearing)" At this point I was trying to calm myself down so I don't quite remember how I reacted. I think I told him "you're grown man, why can't you stop swearing?" and maybe pointed out that he passed me very close and hit me. Lots of things were rushing in my head. Light turns green, we go our separate ways, him still shouting and swearing at me as I pass.

I thought I had the mental strength and mental preparation (from regularly reading fellow forum users' experiences here, and watching cycle vigilante's cam footage on YouTube) to deal appropriately in this sort of situation. But clearly it started as typical build-up (close pass, I'm telling him "no no"), with typical encounter (agressive driving and physical contact), and typical outcome (agressive and threatening remarks).

I thought I was better than this; but upon reflection, I can now see where my mistakes were and possibly fuelled the situation to end up the way it did. And in honesty, I had thoughts of blocking his way with my bike in front of his car and take pictures of his face, registration and car description, break his wing mirror, aggressively shout back at him, fall to the ground at point of impact and play victim, all the negative and unhelpful actions. I thought I could handle a situation like this; but failed miserably. Possibly reinforced his perception of cyclists as (in his favourite swear word).

I have a feeling he's a fellow commuter (though on his car) on this route so I suspect I'll see him again. When I do I'm willing to apologise (if he lets me) for aggravating the situation, but also to gently explain how I felt threatened during the very close pass going over the speed limit and the fact that he was willing to run me over at the roundabout. I want to hear his view on this and see how he could have justified his actions.

Now that I've calmed down, I want to hear from others how I can improve as commuting cyclist. At the end of the day, I would come out worse than a car driver if things have gone really nasty.

I should have not made contact with him at all. But then how will he learn if he is not informed? The fact that he was "perceptively" speeding and knew I was going to make contact with him indicates, from my view, that he knew and planned his action. But who I am to take on that role? But then how many more miles will he drive until he actually harms other road users? Was he late for work? Is he normally like this or is he stressed / not coping with his life at the moment? How could someone be so aggressive and voilent to other humans? Does he have kids? Do his mates normally describe him as a nice chap? Or is he a serial troublemaker known to the criminal justice system? Does he think I'm a selfish, self-righteous, cycle-cam vigilante eye-sore Hi-Vis cyclist trying to instigate and capture bad driving? Does he think I don't own a car and I cycle all the time everywhere?

So, how do you keep your composure on your commute, especially when you have close or physical encounter with other road users?

Safe and happy commuting everyone!
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Comments

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,608
    Basically, you gotta plan not to react before you head out.

    Relying on your instincts not to won't work.

    And every moment is another opportunity to bail and not engage. Try to take one.
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    ^ this. There's only one reliable way to change a driver's behaviour, and you've just done it. You describe the driver's first pass as "aggressive". Do you think, as a result of your intervention, he's more or less likely to make such aggressive passes in the future?

    You say, "driver clearly expecting me to react", suggesting the guy was up for a confrontation. In these circumstances your choice is either to give him the confrontation he wants (he wins) or deny him that confrontation (you win). It's quite natural to want to fight back (metaphorically), but try to take some consolation from the fact that you're denying him what he wants.

    More generally, when you get into this type of situation, ask yourself what is the range of likely outcomes. The best one is normally the one that stems from you not reacting...
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  • defever
    defever Posts: 171
    edited March 2018
    Thanks Rick and TGOTB,

    I agree completely. I thought I could do it. It was hard not to react this morning.

    I agree with not engaging. But in the heat of things, it's so hard to brush off driver's faults, especially if I felt in danger or threatened. That's my fundamental issue, perhaps. 2000+miles and no physical contact. But actually, I did play a part in escalating the situation.

    I'll keep in mind the comment about what am I expecting to get out of by engaging.

    Thanks both.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,608
    Remember reading something about fighter pilots being trained to do nothing when something bad happens (like an engine falling off), and taking the time to asses what they're gonna do, as per the training/planning, before actually doing something.

    Same road incidents. Make a promise to yourself to take a moment regardless of what happens, to give you time to asses whether it's actually worth it (clue, basically never is).
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Sounds like you did alright to be honest - after he hit you with his car, you didn't escalate it further - so I wouldn't be too hard on yourself.
  • rower63
    rower63 Posts: 1,991
    The only gesture I'll use these days is the one you described: index finger wagging from side to side: it's not a swearing-substitute, and it is indicating you think he/she has been "naughty" and the sort admonishment one would give a child.
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  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    I've definitely done similar in the past and ended up feeling dreadful about it afterwards (getting into an aggressive screaming match with someone in the street isn't any fun).

    I had a really weird one recently where a car overtook me, pretty much skimming my elbow. I raised one arm in the air and yelled "Hey!". Car immediately got stuck in traffic, I caught up and rode in primary behind it, it was creeping forwards, I waited until everything was clear and pulled along side. I'd calmed myself down by this point and was simply going to say "you were really close, you need to give me more space than that". As I pulled alongside the driver's window came down, the lady driving stuck both her hands out of the window to wave at me (while still creeping forwards in slow moving traffic) and yelled "You've got an aggression problem!" I rode past her window laughing and cheerfully yelled back "don't be so ridiculous, you've got an eyesight problem - you nearly drove straight into me" and then rode the rest of my way to work.

    My other hard learned rule is just hang back behind these nutters unless you know the traffic means you won't see them again if you pass them. The last thing you want is to be overtaken again by some maniac who's out for a fight.
  • ricky_h-2
    ricky_h-2 Posts: 119
    Sorry to hear of your experience, it is always unpleasant and much easier to analyse in the cold light of reflection. Unfortunately with the simple law of averages, the more you ride, the greater the probability of exposure to dickhead drivers, the UK has a very long way to go on weeding them out.
    For me I try and think what will I achieve in chasing down someone ? It's very rare an unenlightened driver gives a reasoned response to nearly hitting you. Sometimes an attempt at a polite exchange can be worth it but if you have just dropped the hammer and caught up with the offending car, it is highly likely the adrenaline will be flowing and such a calm exchange is really challenging.
    Ultimately it will be your word against his and if you want to bring him to book, your only hope is a camera. Personally I don't bother but I have been sorely tempted to run one over the years. Your best bet (if possible) is to try and adjust your route away from traffic and minimise your exposure.
    Take it easy.
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    I think also if you are a bit of a hot head you'll always struggle to reign it in. I've never managed not to call someone a cnut if they've been one after nearly ten years of commuting.
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  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Yes, you shouldn't react, and you probably would have been better off not overtaking him after the first pass, but even so he hit (clipped) you with his car.

    He. Hit. You.

    You do not make contact.

    That is fundamentally not ok and it sounds like he intended to do it and there is nothing stopping him from doing it again with potentially more serious consequences.
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  • hopkinb
    hopkinb Posts: 7,129
    okgo wrote:
    I've never managed not to call someone a cnut if they've been one after nearly ten years of commuting.

    :lol:
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    I think you learn quite quickly that it's incredibly dangerous to escalate arguments with bad drivers in 2 tonnes of metal - whilst you're flesh and blood.

    It's not worth getting killed over.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,560
    Fenix wrote:
    I think you learn quite quickly that it's incredibly dangerous to escalate arguments with bad drivers in 2 tonnes of metal - whilst you're flesh and blood.

    It's not worth getting killed over.
    This is very true, unfortunately I fall in the same camp as okgo.
  • hopkinb
    hopkinb Posts: 7,129
    Ricky h wrote:
    Ultimately it will be your word against his and if you want to bring him to book, your only hope is a camera.

    That's why I got one. Well, it's why I got badgered into getting one. It has now unfortunately been used for its purpose, rather than providing amusing footage of me falling off my bike. One of those massive pick ups that builders drive was repeatedly swerving and revving behind some poor nodder. I pulled alongside at a red light, where he was still revving and playing the d!ck, and told him gently that the whole incident was on camera and would be going to the police. He started swearing, so I told him he was still on camera. He wound up his window and drove off when the light went green. I did send the footage in to the Met, not heard anything back though.
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    edited March 2018
    elbowloh wrote:
    That is fundamentally not ok and it sounds like he intended to do it and there is nothing stopping him from doing it again with potentially more serious consequences.
    If you feel strongly enough to do something about it, do something that will actually make a positive difference. Write to your MP, set up or join a campaign group, apply to join the Police.

    You're right that nothing's stopping him doing it again. That nothing includes ranty cyclists, who may even encourage his behaviour (because they're giving him the reaction he probably wants). The first rule of interacting with children (and, by extension, immature adults) is not to reward undesirable behaviour.

    Think about it from the driver's view. If he executes a punishment pass, what are the likely outcomes?
    1. Knocking off the cyclist
    2. Getting a reaction from the cyclist
    3. Not getting a reaction from the cyclist.

    Let's discount option 1 (in the driver's mind) because he thinks he's too good a driver for this to happen. The only possible outcomes he's going to foresee are 2 and 3. Now consider which of those outcomes he wants, and which is going to encourage him to repeat his behaviour again.

    By way of balance: We've probably all been that shouty cyclist in the past, I certainly have. After a while you realise it's only ever going to go one way, and all it takes is a bit of introspection (which the OP clearly has) to motivate yourself to bite your tongue...
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  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    TGOTB wrote:
    elbowloh wrote:
    That is fundamentally not ok and it sounds like he intended to do it and there is nothing stopping him from doing it again with potentially more serious consequences.
    If you feel strongly enough to do something about it, do something that will actually make a positive difference. Write to your MP, set up or join a campaign group, apply to join the Police.
    Yeah, I don't have a solution and it wasn't me that was involved in this incident, but i think there is clearly something wrong when there are people out there thinking that it's alright to hit people with their cars.

    It looks like a new law/offence is being planned for cyclists who kill pedestrians in collisions following the Charlie Alliston/Kim Briggs case, when this type of incident does not occur frequently, yet there are no new laws or seemingly any action from resulting from the 8 or so cyclists that are killed in collisions with motor vehicles every year in London alone. The new law seems to be due to the amount of pressure put on the government through the media. The press seemed to jump on that case in particular.

    Cycling safety does not get the same amount of press coverage in spite of many campaigns on the matter. They seem to have more inertia on the subject. Maybe they don't feel the same weight of pubic opinion is behind it?

    Sorry, I've gone off topic.

    Maybe become a Buddhist? :wink:
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  • DMHR2018
    DMHR2018 Posts: 44
    I agree with all of the sensible advice above in theory. Would love to have the composure to implement it myself... However, for me what it comes down to is that this person has put your life at risk for no justifiable reason whatsoever. If someone puts my life at risk in any other avenue of life the least they can expect is an earful.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,333
    You could have not reacted in the first place - the first mistake was his close pass, and the first reaction was yours. But once it had escalated, I don't think I'd shrug it off if someone hit me. I would try not to lose it, but I would take pictures and report it.

    To state the obvious, I think if someone drives into you, they've taken it too far.
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    DMHR2018 wrote:
    I agree with all of the sensible advice above in theory. Would love to have the composure to implement it myself... However, for me what it comes down to is that this person has put your life at risk for no justifiable reason whatsoever. If someone puts my life at risk in any other avenue of life the least they can expect is an earful.
    So you try to solve the problem by putting your life at additional risk by escalating the situation?

    Imagine you're walking down a dark alley and someone much bigger than you jumps out of the shadows and grabs you. You manage to break free. Do you:
    a) Remonstrate with them; tell them how dangerous they are; maybe use the C word?
    b) Run away?
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  • wolfsbane2k
    wolfsbane2k Posts: 3,056
    You are here to tell the tale, that's an important piece.
    As mentioned above, we have probably all been that shouty cyclist in the past - I know I have been, and will continue to be. If I know someone's about to be a pr!ck, I'll be able to tone myself down, even if it's just a millisecond notice. But an absolute surprise always gets me shouty - so I shout the reg# instead.
    I've hit out at vehicles before, mainly just to remind the drivers they are too close - with mixed responses.

    If you are a hothead, shout the reg#. And repeat. And repeat. It's non-offensive. It bangs it into your memory for a report.
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  • meursault
    meursault Posts: 1,433
    Reminds me a bit of a incident from last summer.

    Myself and two friends were cycling out of a very small village in Hertfordshire, when a male on a moped, riding in the other direction, towards us, shouted abuse at us. We were riding, single file, on our side of the road, doing nothing illegal or dangerous. I usually let these things go, as suggested by others above.

    For some reason, I took exception this time, and put my fist towards his helmet! Never going to, or wanting to make contact, but expressing my displeasure.

    As I look behind, I see him turn around wanting to continue this discussion. I get off my bike, just in case he uses the moped as a weapon. He pulls up and says what he thought we did wrong initially. I explained the highway code to him and how we were more than well within it. All the time thinking, if this debate escalates into something more physical then so be it. It became apparent he didn't want to take it further and went on his way.

    I know where I was in the wrong, but sometimes you boil over. It's not always easy, in the heat of the moment to keep it all sensible, even though that's my preferred response.
    Superstition sets the whole world in flames; philosophy quenches them.

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  • defever
    defever Posts: 171
    edited March 2018
    Wow, thanks very much everyone, I didn't expect this to get this much attention. Perhaps it's one of the inevitable nature of cycling?
    meursault wrote:
    sometimes you boil over. It's not always easy, in the heat of the moment to keep it all sensible, even though that's my preferred response.
    Graeme_S wrote:
    I've definitely done similar in the past and ended up feeling dreadful about it afterwards (getting into an aggressive screaming match with someone in the street isn't any fun).

    I'm going through the "dreadful" phase now. Totally regret the way I reacted this morning. But the inner-self is still trying to justify that he was very close overtaking me and I needed to inform him. Like this:
    TGOTB wrote:
    DMHR2018 wrote:
    I agree with all of the sensible advice above in theory. Would love to have the composure to implement it myself... However, for me what it comes down to is that this person has put your life at risk for no justifiable reason whatsoever. If someone puts my life at risk in any other avenue of life the least they can expect is an earful.
    So you try to solve the problem by putting your life at additional risk by escalating the situation?

    Imagine you're walking down a dark alley and someone much bigger than you jumps out of the shadows and grabs you. You manage to break free. Do you:
    a) Remonstrate with them; tell them how dangerous they are; maybe use the C word?
    b) Run away?

    At the time, I would completely agree with DMHR2018, and that's the reason why I make contact with a road user if I do. But then, sitting here by my desk, TGOTB is completely right. Why would I put myself back in danger? Perhaps with close-pass, the danger is gone once the car passes, and by then the feeling of "flight" soon turns to "fight" (anger), hence the feeling that I need to speak to that road user? Strange paradox.

    This leads to several valid comments already made:

    What will I achieve by chasing the driver?
    Ricky h wrote:
    For me I try and think what will I achieve in chasing down someone ? It's very rare an unenlightened driver gives a reasoned response to nearly hitting you. Sometimes an attempt at a polite exchange can be worth it but if you have just dropped the hammer and caught up with the offending car, it is highly likely the adrenaline will be flowing and such a calm exchange is really challenging.

    He made physical contact with me whilst moving (hint: danger?!)
    elbowloh wrote:
    Yes, you shouldn't react, and you probably would have been better off not overtaking him after the first pass, but even so he hit (clipped) you with his car.
    He. Hit. You.
    You do not make contact.
    That is fundamentally not ok and it sounds like he intended to do it and there is nothing stopping him from doing it again with potentially more serious consequences.

    Not worth the risk
    Fenix wrote:
    I think you learn quite quickly that it's incredibly dangerous to escalate arguments with bad drivers in 2 tonnes of metal - whilst you're flesh and blood.

    It's not worth getting killed over.

    Don't feed aggression
    TGOTB wrote:
    You're right that nothing's stopping him doing it again. That nothing includes ranty cyclists, who may even encourage his behaviour (because they're giving him the reaction he probably wants). The first rule of interacting with children (and, by extension, immature adults) is not to reward undesirable behaviour.

    Think about it from the driver's view. If he executes a punishment pass, what are the likely outcomes?
    1. Knocking off the cyclist
    2. Getting a reaction from the cyclist
    3. Not getting a reaction from the cyclist.

    Let's discount option 1 (in the driver's mind) because he thinks he's too good a driver for this to happen. The only possible outcomes he's going to foresee are 2 and 3. Now consider which of those outcomes he wants, and which is going to encourage him to repeat his behaviour again.

    By way of balance: We've probably all been that shouty cyclist in the past, I certainly have. After a while you realise it's only ever going to go one way, and all it takes is a bit of introspection (which the OP clearly has) to motivate yourself to bite your tongue...

    So what would I have done? (thanks for helpful advice, everyone):

    Stay back
    Graeme_S wrote:
    My other hard learned rule is just hang back behind these nutters unless you know the traffic means you won't see them again if you pass them. The last thing you want is to be overtaken again by some maniac who's out for a fight.

    Avoid aggression (is it part of learning experience of how to cycle on road?)
    TGOTB wrote:
    By way of balance: We've probably all been that shouty cyclist in the past, I certainly have. After a while you realise it's only ever going to go one way, and all it takes is a bit of introspection (which the OP clearly has) to motivate yourself to bite your tongue...

    Learn from Experience
    As mentioned above, we have probably all been that shouty cyclist in the past
    With anything, we become wiser with experience. Just like new drivers, do we generally start out making mistakes and causing un/intentional inconvenience / nuisance just to make a point, but eventually maturity develops and drive sensibly.

    Support cycle safety
    elbowloh wrote:
    TGOTB wrote:
    If you feel strongly enough to do something about it, do something that will actually make a positive difference. Write to your MP, set up or join a campaign group, apply to join the Police.
    Cycling safety does not get the same amount of press coverage in spite of many campaigns on the matter. They seem to have more inertia on the subject. Maybe they don't feel the same weight of pubic opinion is behind it?
    I see the point in this. It's so strange. One single isolated case of cyclist vs pedestrian and a law is immediately considered for an amendment. How many cycle deaths on road a year? "Driver awareness" police campaign in few counties at most. Rather than confronting bad road users at individual level, perhaps the focus can turn to population - policy level for policy / law change? It's hard as we won't see immediate impact by campaigning...


    Regarding having a cycle cam, personally (I'm not forcing others to take my view), I'm strongly against wearing a cam: I know I was arrogant and self-righteous in my youth. If I have the upper hand (i.e. cam)... I can see myself becoming another unhelpful vigilante cyclist that nobody likes (including cyclists). But then, if I ever end up in a serious situation...
    Ricky h wrote:
    Ultimately it will be your word against his and if you want to bring him to book, your only hope is a camera.

    Also, comments about hot-head is worth noting, too.
    okgo wrote:
    I think also if you are a bit of a hot head you'll always struggle to reign it in.

    I wouldn't describe myself as hot head, but I make conscious effort to avoid aggressive situation, stay reasonable and civilised all the time (I think I stayed calm whilst the driver was shouting and swearing). But maybe I've let it loose lately. This leads me to reflect that maybe I've been complacent about cycling lately and wasn't preparing for a typical scenario like this morning. Maybe I lost some sense of being considerate and mature. It's so easy to slip, just like how the driver lost his plot. This comes back to one of the many questions that ran in my head: is he usually a sensible and nice guy? What triggered him to act such way (other than possibly me)?

    I've definitely learned a lesson, and I'm grateful for everyone's comment.

    Happy cycling!
  • DMHR2018
    DMHR2018 Posts: 44
    TGOTB wrote:
    DMHR2018 wrote:
    I agree with all of the sensible advice above in theory. Would love to have the composure to implement it myself... However, for me what it comes down to is that this person has put your life at risk for no justifiable reason whatsoever. If someone puts my life at risk in any other avenue of life the least they can expect is an earful.
    So you try to solve the problem by putting your life at additional risk by escalating the situation?

    Imagine you're walking down a dark alley and someone much bigger than you jumps out of the shadows and grabs you. You manage to break free. Do you:
    a) Remonstrate with them; tell them how dangerous they are; maybe use the C word?
    b) Run away?


    Not really comparable situations are they. Your alleyway attacker evidently intends you malice, your dangerous driver is more likely to just be an ignorant twit.

    Do you back down from all confrontation in life for fear of reprisals? I doubt it, and if so, how does that effect the self esteem I wonder? Sometimes you just need to stand up for yourself and (in this particular case) your right to use the road without being bullied off it.
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    @defever Awesome forum skills by the way, with the multiple quoting.
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  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    DMHR2018 wrote:
    Not really comparable situations are they. Your alleyway attacker evidently intends you malice, your dangerous driver is more likely to just be an ignorant twit.
    The OP believed the close pass was intentional, so I'd argue both cases involve malice, and (as the OP discovered) further danger if the confrontation is continued.
    DMHR2018 wrote:
    Do you back down from all confrontation in life for fear of reprisals? I doubt it, and if so, how does that effect the self esteem I wonder? Sometimes you just need to stand up for yourself and (in this particular case) your right to use the road without being bullied off it.
    My self esteem is as high as I feel it needs to be. In particular, I don't feel the need to boost my self-esteem by seeking out or prolonging confrontational situations. If someone's looking for a fight I'm the guy who'll walk away. I'm happy with that, it doesn't make me feel inadequate in any way.
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 74,608
    DMHR2018 wrote:
    Do you back down from all confrontation in life for fear of reprisals? I doubt it, and if so, how does that effect the self esteem I wonder? Sometimes you just need to stand up for yourself and (in this particular case) your right to use the road without being bullied off it.

    Yeah, you haven't been kicked on the floor and left with 3 broken ribs after a road rage incident have you?

    I'ts a function of size as well. Bigger riders will get marginally less abuse.
  • hopkinb
    hopkinb Posts: 7,129
    I'ts a function of size as well. Bigger riders will get marginally less abuse.

    Based on a sample size of me, I would say this is true.
  • For me, composure comes from asking myself 'what do you want' when something happens - for me commuting, that's getting to the end of my journey safe and well.

    If someone does a close pass or I sense them trying to pass dangerously - its that 'what do you want' - I want to get to work/home safely. For the immediate action, that safety comes from that bad driver being nowhere near me, or if they have to be near me, being somewhere I can see them so I can avoid their rubbish driving. This means I don't pass them unless they are stuck in traffic and I can get well clear. If they're behind me, it means I get out of their way as soon as I can to avoid being hit during their crap overtake. I shouldn't have to, but if it's a choice of being delayed vs squished, I'll get out the way.

    The follow on action where the situation warrants it, is to report to the police. This means that the driver is more likely to be disqualified, therefore not on the road, trying to run me over when I'm commuting.
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    You can get full length tattoo sleeves - kind of like arm warmers. I reckon they make a rider look a bit less easy to intimidate.

    You could get a go pro or similar if you like to capture any incidents that you might want to report - and that should also remind you not to escalate it or you'll be opening yourself up to actions.
  • DMHR2018
    DMHR2018 Posts: 44
    TGOTB wrote:
    My self esteem is as high as I feel it needs to be. In particular, I don't feel the need to boost my self-esteem by seeking out or prolonging confrontational situations. If someone's looking for a fight I'm the guy who'll walk away. I'm happy with that, it doesn't make me feel inadequate in any way.

    Wasn't suggesting the opposite. Just personally I always feel worse after staying quiet in a situation where I feel I should speak up for myself.
    Yeah, you haven't been kicked on the floor and left with 3 broken ribs after a road rage incident have you?

    I'ts a function of size as well. Bigger riders will get marginally less abuse.

    No, not had my head kicked in as a result, and yes, I am slightly on the big side, so maybe my experience of this is different to others.