First FTP test

okgo

Many people would have a shocking first number if they tested it before really riding or training that much. I really dread to think what mine would have been when I first started. Instead the first one I ever actually did was 360w, which was as useless as it was pleasing as clearly I had no idea what I'd gained in the proceeding few months, and in the next years it didn't go up a huge amount either.

Regular riding is so important though, until late last year I think the longest I had off the bike in 7 or so years was about 4 or 5 days from injury.

davebradswmb

[quote="ugo.santalucia"you are unlikely to ever be able to produce those watts for one hour, due to lack of opportunities (other than the Alpe d'Huez, can you think of any?).[/quote]The major Alpine or Pyrennean cols will take most people over an hour, and they tend to be fairly consistent in grade so it isn't difficult to maintain a constant effort. Admittedly you're not going to find climbs that are going to take much longer than half an hour in this country, but nevertheless FTP is a pretty good predictor or what you can achieve in real life.

It undoubtedly can also be very a very useful tool for anyone using a turbo trainer. It is difficult to motivate yourself to work hard enough in that situation, but I have found that if you have a training plan based on your FTP it can make you work much harder than you would otherwise.

I started using Trainerroad just before Christmas, and although I have been following the sequence of their plan I haven't been at all strict about when I have done the sessions, just fitting them in when I have had time and the weather has prevented or at least discouraged me from going out on the road. I don't think I did my first FTP test very well, so I have been having relatively easy sessions as a result. I finished the fifth week of the initial six week program, skipping the last week because it was all endurance and I can do that every day on the road. I then redid the FTP test and I am apparently 20% stronger. I am sure that some of that is genuine improvement, but I think a large part of it is simply being able to do the test better. I did my first session using my new FTP last night. It was an over/under session and I could barely manage to hit and maintain the power figures, so from that point of view it was perfect and my legs are telling me the difference! I only wish that I had redone the FTP test a bit earlier.

ugo.santalucia

CookeeeMonster wrote:

Buy a smart trainer/power meter and a big fan, stick in shed, sorted

Massive waste of money since it's onlya curiosity... I am doing some work in the gym to compensate for the fact that I haven't been out much, for obvious reasons

sloppyschleckonds

ugo.santalucia wrote:

CookeeeMonster wrote:

Buy a smart trainer/power meter and a big fan, stick in shed, sorted

Massive waste of money since it's onlya curiosity... I am doing some work in the gym to compensate for the fact that I haven't been out much, for obvious reasons

The Brit obsession with smart trainers, watt bikes, zwift/ trainerroad is nauseating

Get outside and ride, as long distances as you can

sloppyschleckonds

Ryan_W wrote:

I’ve only ever done 4 FTP tests (been cycling since Sep 16).

03 Dec 16 - 187w @ 107kg
12 Jan 17 - 270w @ 105kg
17 Sep 17 - 321w @ 91kg
06 Feb 18 - 347w @ 86kg

We all gotta start somewhere... Just stick to it and don’t let figures consume you, cycling’s meant to be fun!

Wel dun fat lad, thats very good progression

joe2008

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

The Brit obsession with smart trainers, watt bikes, zzzzzzzwift/ trainerroad is nauseating

Get outside and ride, as long distances as you can

Absolutely this

okgo

I find the obsession with what other people choose to do amusing.

For many people riding outside isn't that straight forward for all manner of reasons, its really not an obsession at all for most people, more just that the average cyclist in the UK is generally a time poor father who is probably not right on the doorstep of great riding, and the weather is crap too. Indoor offers an answer to most of the issues that person will face.

philbar72

in terms of loops around the park there are several you can do that will help. also the park just generally is great for building fitness up. do the sawyers drag into a headwind for instant character and strength building!

the fastest way round is anticlockwise. start from the base of broomfield along priory lane, and then up sawyers, down to Kingston gate up dark hill and keep circulating. the other way is slower and slightly tougher in my opinion.

Another one if you are time crunched is to start along priory lane and then turn left up towards the royal ballet school and then drop back down after that to the start of priory lane again. or do it reversed. its not really suited to an FTP like test. but there are bits of it that will be tough ish.

my normalised power (which is part of the sign of how hard you are working) is always slightly higher round the park even when riding relatively easy.

kingstongraham

joe2008 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

The Brit obsession with smart trainers, watt bikes, zzzzzzzwift/ trainerroad is nauseating

Get outside and ride, as long distances as you can

Absolutely this

Winter nights, it's probably nicer and more productive to ride indoors, thanks.

maryka

KingstonGraham wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

The Brit obsession with smart trainers, watt bikes, zzzzzzzwift/ trainerroad is nauseating

Get outside and ride, as long distances as you can

Absolutely this

Winter nights, it's probably nicer and more productive to ride indoors, thanks.

Frankly I think Zwift and the like are game-changers. Zwift has taken the turbo from a dreaded, boring and often painful solo session to a social experience. Entire clubs in North America have virtual club runs because it's too cold/snowy to get outside for real. So that's made the turbo not only a training tool but a normalised mode of exercise -- evidenced by the number of people I see on there doing 1.5w/kg. These people are clearly not "racers" but just wanting to get or stay fit and seeing virtual cycling as a way to do that. Why go to the gym and stare at a TV on a wattbike when you can do it in the privacy of your own home with hundreds of virtual others riding with you...

Getting off topic now but like others said, just ride your bike more, OP, enjoy the fitness gains and the journey. Take it slow and steady, set some shorter term goals but be in it for the long game. Join a club if you have time and the inclination. Test yourself as and when you feel like it, but don't obsess over it. If I'm very honest, Alex's list of things to do on page 1 is pretty much what I do every year as my fitness peaks then wanes then builds up again -- and I've been training "seriously" for about 15 years now!

kingstongraham

philbar72 wrote:

the fastest way round is anticlockwise.

Makes sense - it's shorter, isn't it?

okgo

No. But it means you can take all the rbts at speed.

ryan_w-2

okgo wrote:

No. But it means you can take all the rbts at speed.

What would you know?! You’d be lucky to get round in 30 minutes at present... #Guinness #Fags #Fishing

kingstongraham

okgo wrote:

No. But it means you can take all the rbts at speed.

And you go the shortest way around them. I'll admit, it's not much shorter.

chrisaonabike

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

CookeeeMonster wrote:

Buy a smart trainer/power meter and a big fan, stick in shed, sorted

Massive waste of money since it's onlya curiosity... I am doing some work in the gym to compensate for the fact that I haven't been out much, for obvious reasons

The Brit obsession with smart trainers, watt bikes, zwift/ trainerroad is nauseating

Get outside and ride, as long distances as you can

Thanks for confirming that you have nothing to contribute to this thread.

Alex_Simmons/RST

philthy3 wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

ChrisAOnABike wrote:

The most relevant sections for me from your comments are riding more, and more frequently.

I've had loads of minor injuries and illnesses over the last few months, so it's been a lot of time off the bike. Work pressure makes it virtually impossible to get out at lunchtime, so that makes it more difficult.

Cool. Just heed what I said about not attempting to do too much too hard too quickly. Else niggles, injuries and illness will more than likely return to interrupt you again. Consistency and *gradual* overload is exceptionally effective for longer term gains and sustainability.

ChrisAOnABike wrote:

Presumably for short sessions, I should go for high intensity?

It depends. I wouldn't be going mad to start with but it's not really possible to give specific advice on what *you* should do without detailed personal information. Given what you mention above about injuries/illness, jumping straight into HIT might be the worst thing you could do.

You should be doing the intensity that is right for you at the time, is specific to your development needs and accounts for all the factors (like I mentioned earlier) impacting on your training. That may or may not involve high intensity efforts.

I bow to your obvious knowledge and role in this area Alex, but as the OP hasn't access to a personal coach, isn't the 4DP test going to help them identify their weaknesses and provide a structured program to help improve the areas of weakness?

Weakness for what? It's not a weakness if it isn't relevant for your goals. And let's face it, what if your weakness is an inherit characteristic (e.g. it's a natural consequence of your muscle fibre type makeup)? And will it tell you how you respond to different types of training? Consider all the factors I outlined earlier?

I can't speak for the specific approach of that particular platform but having tested several variants of the same idea, I know most suggested I train in a manner that was completely inappropriate for my needs and capabilities and indeed attempting to do so would have caused me harm in one case. Often they are set up in a manner to provide quick gains, bit like diets are designed to have a quick impact. But often they are unsustainable and focus on the wrong things at the wrong time.

That said, fortunately the body can improve via many different ways and so for a 6-8 week period when starting from a low base it might be much of a muchness provided you simply do more than you have been. But long term sustainability is more than simply doing a bunch of HIT work and an initial 6 week training hit.

A power profile is just one input into assessing what sort of training makes sense for any individual. For sure it's helpful, but only if you know how to interpret it in the context of other relevant information.

It's not rocket surgery I'll admit, but frankly I still see people make the same basic training mistakes over and over again (when I review their training history) that I have to wonder why? Perhaps it's that over keenness in looking at what others do that was mentioned earlier.

And keep it fun. That matters, a lot.

thegreatdivide

ChrisAOnABike wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

CookeeeMonster wrote:

Buy a smart trainer/power meter and a big fan, stick in shed, sorted

Massive waste of money since it's onlya curiosity... I am doing some work in the gym to compensate for the fact that I haven't been out much, for obvious reasons

The Brit obsession with smart trainers, watt bikes, zwift/ trainerroad is nauseating

Get outside and ride, as long distances as you can

Thanks for confirming that you have nothing to contribute to this thread.

What he's contributed is the cold hard fact that 'cyber cycling' is no match for real world riding, regardless of what the cycling media, a GCN w@nkathon, or muppets who've bought into the whole 'scene' will tell you. It's becoming embarrassing.

Take a step back and look at what you just spent your money on - it's nothing more than a spin class attached to a computer game.

Alex_Simmons/RST

If indoor training aids help someone ride/train more than they might otherwise do and improve their fitness such that when they do have the opportunity to ride outside they enjoy it more or can stay safer because they have better fitness, then it's a good thing.

People have limited time, families, work and not everyone has the most cycle friendly environment on their doorstep.

And some people like indoor training. Nothing wrong with that.

As to whether it can be a useful aid to improving real world fitness, I suggest looking at Matt Hayman's indoor training regime in the lead up to winning Paris Roubaix, following his accident in January and recovery from breaking a bone.

RIDE: Let’s consider the data he was sending you from the SRM had he been out on the road versus the data he ended up giving you from his stints on the home trainer in the garage. Were you able to tailor those efforts?

“I can quantify it this way for you: for any road rider, everyone using power meters these days, knows what a 1,000 TSS (Training Stress Score) week is like.

“To do 1,000 TSS consecutive weeks on the ergo is pretty incredible and that’s what Mat was able to do.

“Anyone who rides with a power meter understands that 1,000 TSS on an indoor trainer is a massive amount of work. For most guys to do that on the road it would be a big week but to do it on the ergo, it means that there was 20 hours of quality work – no wasted time at all.

“I wouldn’t say that Mat won Roubaix because he was fresh and hadn’t raced; he would have had a good Roubaix regardless of his accident or not. But the indoor trainer just allowed us to replicate the race, basically.

http://www.ridemedia.com.au/features/tr ... ans-story/

MiddleRinger

thegreatdivide wrote:

Take a step back and look at what you just spent your money on - it's nothing more than a spin class attached to a computer game.

Don't do that. It'll make you sad...

Now I use Zwift 1-2 times a week when I can't get out on the road for whatever reason, but I recon the Zwift advertising department must be pumping LOADS of cash into GCN, Strava, road.cc, CyclingTips and the like - check out the massive number of "articles" covering the subject on each of those sites. I'm guilty of buying into the scene. For the money I've spent on indoor training shizzle I could have bought a fat bike or mountain bike (eeek!) and a decent set of lights.

I love a bit of Zwift and at one point last year for about three months it was the majority of my fitness training due to circumstances. It saved my cycling fitness from going down the drain.

At the end of the day though, don't forget why you bought that bike in the first place. It's meant to be ridden outside!

kingstongraham

thegreatdivide wrote:

Take a step back and look at what you just spent your money on - it's nothing more than a spin class attached to a computer game.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

StillGoing

okgo wrote:

I find the obsession with what other people choose to do amusing.

For many people riding outside isn't that straight forward for all manner of reasons, its really not an obsession at all for most people, more just that the average cyclist in the UK is generally a time poor father who is probably not right on the doorstep of great riding, and the weather is crap too. Indoor offers an answer to most of the issues that person will face.

Couldn't agree more. I'd love to be getting outdoors, but with me being retired and the stay at home father to a child not yet in school full time, my available time is restricted to evenings. Weekends are taken up with other important aspects of life at the moment and until then, its a turbo or couch land.

okgo

There is nothing wrong with it. Some of the fastest riders I've known have done a lot of their training indoors. Riding at threshold is riding at threshold, whether that is on a computer game or up Box Hill.

For me I never enjoyed riding all that much, save for that rare amazingly sunny day etc, it was all just so I could compete, so really I wouldn't care whether it was indoors or out, the fact Zwift wasn't really around when I was training a bit more seriously meant that it was just turbo in front of the TV. Did I care that some shit rider on bikeradar had a problem with it? Nein.

chrisaonabike

thegreatdivide wrote:

What he's contributed is the cold hard fact that 'cyber cycling' is no match for real world riding, ....
Take a step back and look at what you just spent your money on - it's nothing more than a spin class attached to a computer game.

And in other news, water is wet, the pope is a catholic, and bears do crap in the woods.

No one here is asserting that cyber cycling is a match for the real thing.

So far, I've noticed that:

- My 'spin class attached to a computer game' does not aggravate either my neck pain or my tennis elbow, unlike actual cycling. Both of these have been pretty debilitating and caused a lot of weeks off the bike over the last six months.

- The three short spin classes I've done so far were on days when I wouldn't have had a chance to go out on the bike at all.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

thegreatdivide wrote:

Take a step back and look at what you just spent your money on - it's nothing more than a spin class attached to a computer game.

If you are able to train indoors on a turbo, using a power meter and focus on training by power, I don't see the problem of riding on Zwift; OneLap; Virtugo etc.

In that respect, training on my Direto is better than outdoors, because I have not got a power meter attached to the bike directly... But this may change!

Depending upon the next month's forecast trends from mid March, I will suspend my Zwift subscription until late autumn at least, because of the £13pcm costs and the fact I benefit from outdoor time as an SAD sufferer when it's sunny. Plus for the days it's not great outside, I will still have Virtugo and OneLap to "play" with, including giving myself an FTP test every month or so.

But today is bright blue skies here, a bit of a windchill, but I shall pop out a little later for a cat4 fest around Warnford... Probably on the Voodoo (being the cautious type and the weather could be a bit nippier at ~600 feet, as I discovered on 28th Dec, with black ice across the Old Winchester Hill plateau).

daniel_b

philthy3 wrote:

okgo wrote:

I find the obsession with what other people choose to do amusing.

For many people riding outside isn't that straight forward for all manner of reasons, its really not an obsession at all for most people, more just that the average cyclist in the UK is generally a time poor father who is probably not right on the doorstep of great riding, and the weather is crap too. Indoor offers an answer to most of the issues that person will face.

Couldn't agree more. I'd love to be getting outdoors, but with me being retired and the stay at home father to a child not yet in school full time, my available time is restricted to evenings. Weekends are taken up with other important aspects of life at the moment and until then, its a turbo or couch land.

Blimey there has been some ill informed ignorant posts on here
Where's my surprised face.....
:shock:

Am in total agreement with the qouted posts above.

I have a young family, and can turbo in the garage whilst my daughter is asleep, and my partner is out - have a baby monitor plugged in, and can easily hear her if she needs me, pop off the bike, attend to her, get her back to sleep and go and finish my workout.
Additionally I work from home a couple of days a week, and my manager knows I love to cycle, so is happy for me to take extended lunches and make the time up at either end of the day - I can't risk taking longer than my allotted time, due to a mechanical etc, and consequently ballsing up this very beneficial arrangement, so a 60 or 90 minute turbo twice a week on top is perfect.

None of the above would be possible without a turbo trainer, so the comments from some are completely ridiculous.

I do all this training inside, for the exact focus of wanting to ride faster outside, in all kinds of riding, hill climbs, TT's, sportives etc.

StillGoing

Its also less embarrassing doing those Z1 recovery rides on a turbo than outside being overtaken by children with stabilizers and ribbons hanging off their handlebars :-D

philbar72

KingstonGraham wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

The Brit obsession with smart trainers, watt bikes, zzzzzzzwift/ trainerroad is nauseating

Get outside and ride, as long distances as you can

Absolutely this

Winter nights, it's probably nicer and more productive to ride indoors, thanks.

this is very true. social cyclists like myself prefer to get out and ride with others and fundamentally in terms of accelerating improvement, it really blunts that aspect. also in the last 6 weeks I've had borderline hypothermia twice so its definitely not good for your health...

all I do now, is get out as much as I can, do some intervals in the ride, of varying lengths and power, and then go home. it keeps me "topped up", but I'm not as athletic or powerful as the likes of the fast boys and girls on this forum. each to their own, right.....

ryan_w-2

For me it’s trainig on a turbo and commuting / racing / social rides on the open road.

100% owe a lot of my progression to time on the turbo over winter.

chrisaonabike

Well I just rode up the Alpe d'Huez!

The Drivo came with a free 'RealVideo' of the Alpe, and as I couldn't go out on the bike as I was teaching from 5 to 6.30, by which time it was dark and pishing down with rain, I thought I'd do a bit on the trainer rather than just opening the wine.

I wasn't planning to do the whole thing, but I got to a quarter of the way up and thought I'd do a bit more... then I was half way and thought I'd carry on a little further, and then I was three quarters up and it would have been rude not to finish.

There's a long flat section before the climb, but I averaged 142 watts over the 1:35 it took me for the whole route. So the FTP test earlier wasn't a million miles out.

I've got the wine open now though...

mamil314

Ryan_W wrote:

03 Dec 16 - 187w @ 107kg
12 Jan 17 - 270w @ 105kg

Holy Pasta!
Good effort and good coaching