Rejecting a 2nd hand car ?

mr_eddy
mr_eddy Posts: 830
edited March 2018 in The cake stop
Ok so I bought a car 2nd hand from a used car dealer - They have 4/5 stars on Auto trader and a proper dealership so not some fly by night bloke selling from his drive.

Anyway the car in question has developed 2 faults namely its burning oil (could be many things potentially serious i.e piston rings etc) and its also showing the ABS warning light constantly.

I have returned the car to the dealer who said they would sort but given that they have not responded to any of my follow up calls or emails I am expecting the worst and given I only bought the car 3 weeks ago I am tempted to just flat our reject as per Consumer Act 2015 "un-satisfactory condition" and "not as described"

Anyway should the above be required do I return the car first along with my letter explaining that I am rejecting or do I send the letter rejecting the car and then return once they have acknowledged the rejection ?

Obviously this is a bit presumptive as they may well come back to me within the next day or so saying its all fixed and I get a perfectly functional car.

note - I have receipts for the car and my phone automatically records all calls both in and out so I believe I have all my bases covered.

Advice please ?
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Comments

  • crescent
    crescent Posts: 1,201
    Both sound potentially serious and expensive. I had a BMW a few years ago and the ABS warning light was the sign of a common problem in several German cars and, unfortunately, the precursor to an expensive repair, £1200 if I remember rightly. I would reject it if you can. :(
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  • capt_slog
    capt_slog Posts: 3,952
    Can you find a link to the relevant bit in the consumer act please?

    I thought that it used to be the case that motor vehicles weren't covered in the same way as all other goods (from an experience a long time ago with motorbikes).

    The ABS thing doesn't have to be quite as expensive as above, I think a new wheel bearing sorted mine out, the sensor was an integral part of it, and was about £100 (but that was fitted at home to an Astra ).


    The older I get, the better I was.

  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,026
    Second hand, buyer beware. You are up the creek without specific insurance.
    Happy to be proven wrong.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
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  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,026
    Bumo_b wrote:
    Thanks!
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ayjaycee
    ayjaycee Posts: 1,277
    Also suggest that you have a look at the consumer rights sections in Money Saving Expert which is often a valuable source of guidance in these matters. One point - did the car come with a new MOT? I ask because I personally would never buy a car without one, particularly from a dealer, and if the MOT was new, I would be asking how valid it was as an ABS light always on would mean certain failure.
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  • As long as you paid for part of it by credit card you will be covered by the card issuer - this is what I always do, and it can only be part of the total (eg the deposit) - you're still covered for thew full amount not just what you put on the card.

    From Money Supermarket -
    'Using a credit card to pay for your car may not only be the cheapest way to get new wheels; it also gives you Section 75 protection.

    So what is this? Basically, buy something - in this case a car - anywhere worldwide, costing between £100 and £30,000 and pay for any of it (even just 1p) on a credit card and the card company is jointly liable with the seller. So if it's faulty or you don't get the service, you can go to the card firm for your money back.

    Plus if retailers dispute your claim, you need go to court. With a card firm you can go to the free Ombudsman. It doesn't just look at the law, but also if you're 'being treated fairly'. See our guide to Section 75 for more info.'
  • mr_eddy
    mr_eddy Posts: 830
    As others have mentioned this is the link - As per Act 2015 I have rights to reject if within 30 days if its not fit for purpose.


    https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/e ... h-your-car

    Specifically:

    "The Act states the car must be “of a satisfactory quality”, “fit for purpose” and “as described”. (For a used car, “satisfactory quality” takes into account the car’s age and mileage.)

    You have a right to reject something faulty and you are entitled to a full refund within 30 days of purchase in most cases."
  • mr_eddy
    mr_eddy Posts: 830
    Car came with brand new 12 months MOT and mini service plus all old MOT's etc and a warranty 2000 6 month warranty
  • mr_eddy
    mr_eddy Posts: 830
    ABS light does not come on until after about 30 mins so maybe it got through MOT cause it did not show when they tested.
  • Section 20 of the Act deals with the short term right to reject. It's 30 days, as defined in section 22(3). Given you've 'had the car' it's likely that was all running from the date you picked it up. So there's not long left to exercise the short term right to reject.

    It's muddied because the OP hasn't exercised that right yet, he's gone for repair. However, if that's not done within a reasonable time then the right to reject comes back see 23(6).

    So, if they've had it a week or so you can certainly try that now. There's also the final right to reject in section 24 depending on certain circumstances.

    As far as second hand is concerned, this is a Consumer/Trader contract within the meaning of the Act.

    OP, how long have they had it, how much did you pay?
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  • If it's reputable then they will have taken out insurance cover for a minimum of 6 months against faults in the car. Any reputable dealer should take it back or fix then claim against the insurance/warranty. Some dealers give you 12 months cover. Just an idea and I have never needed to use it so don't know how it works in practise. It's just another recourse to look at.
  • mr_eddy
    mr_eddy Posts: 830
    It seems a well regarded trader - Good reviews on both Google and Auto Trader and they have 20-30 cars for sale at any 1 time and a proper website with a proper office etc so seems fine. I suspect as a result they do have proper insurance etc and they are a vetted autotrader seller.

    Update - I just spoke to the garage that the dealer uses and they have not even looked at it yet (I dropped off on Sat). I just sent an email to the dealer basically asking him to come back with a plan (be it loan car or full refund) by 5pm tomorrow as I can't be without a car beyond this week.

    if I have not got a satisfactory answer by tomorrow afternoon I will just have to keep hounding them - I am not sure I can reject without letting them try and fix first.
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Either of those things could be an expensive fix. I'd reject it and try again elsewhere if you can
  • mr_eddy wrote:

    if I have not got a satisfactory answer by tomorrow afternoon I will just have to keep hounding them - I am not sure I can reject without letting them try and fix first.

    Yes, you can

    23(6)A consumer who requires or agrees to the repair of goods cannot require the trader to replace them, or exercise the short-term right to reject, without giving the trader a reasonable time to repair them (unless giving the trader that time would cause significant inconvenience to the consumer).
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  • I rejected a used car from a dealer a year or so back. They were going to repair it but they kept reneging on their promises. I then just rejected it. I even got costs for returning it from Bristol back up to Inverness.

    I’d just outright reject it. It will focus their minds. It also puts a timeline down. They may pull their finger out and get it fixed.
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  • lesfirth
    lesfirth Posts: 1,382
    mr_eddy wrote:
    ABS light does not come on until after about 30 mins so maybe it got through MOT cause it did not show when they tested.

    That is total rubbish.
  • Bloke buys used car, bloke tells his mates, bloke thinks he knows something about cars, bloke knows knob all, bloke realises he has ballsed it up, bloke asks other people on an internet forum who know knob all about cars, bloke eventually bites the bullet, pays up and posts internet warning to anybody else who may be thinking of buying a used motor from Honest John's in Ramsgate.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,069
    Bloke buys used car, bloke tells his mates, bloke thinks he knows something about cars, bloke knows knob all, bloke realises he has ballsed it up, bloke asks other people on an internet forum who know knob all about cars, bloke eventually bites the bullet, pays up and posts internet warning to anybody else who may be thinking of buying a used motor from Honest John's in Ramsgate.

    None of which appears to have happened in this case. More like bloke buys car from reputable garage, car develops faults within a short time, bloke sends car back for repair as agreed with garage, repairs are not carried out, bloke queries process for exercising his consumer rights, bloke gets good advice from others with past experience or links to sites with the requested information, bloke does not name garage or warn anyone against buying from them and confirms they have good reviews. But you'd know that if you read the thread.
  • thistle_
    thistle_ Posts: 7,182
    I'd recommend rejecting it while you can.

    I had a similar experience from a large, national dealer. Wipers didn't work properly from the start, on the second trip out the power steering failed ABS light came on and all the dials went to zero.

    Took it back, they said they'd sort the wipers but couldn't find anything else wrong. When I rang up to arrange to get the wipers replaced they denied all knowledge of agreeing to it.

    I should have flatly dumped it outside their office and asked for a refund there and then.
  • mr_eddy
    mr_eddy Posts: 830
    Look just to be clear I bought the car from a reputable car dealer for £2000 so not exactly chump change. I have done NOTHING to the car - The faults described have all happened within 21 days of taking delivery and they took the car back before 28 days.

    As others have eluded to I just want to know where I stand with regards to where I stand in terms of rejecting if they cannot sort. I was also looking for constructive dialog something to which Frank Wilson fails to understand.

    In answer to Frank Wilson if you are referring to me get your facts straight and READ the post before coming up with a stream of bull***t that has no bearing at all on reality.

    Also just as an FYI using multiple commas is simply poor grammar. Maybe check yourself before you post next time.
  • mr_eddy
    mr_eddy Posts: 830
    I am going to get a update on Saturday - If they are still 'looking at it' then I am just going to flat our reject. I don't need to give a reason but for the sake of clarity I will make it clear that I am not prepared to spend any more time chasing.
  • mr_eddy
    mr_eddy Posts: 830
    Pross wrote:
    Bloke buys used car, bloke tells his mates, bloke thinks he knows something about cars, bloke knows knob all, bloke realises he has ballsed it up, bloke asks other people on an internet forum who know knob all about cars, bloke eventually bites the bullet, pays up and posts internet warning to anybody else who may be thinking of buying a used motor from Honest John's in Ramsgate.

    There is always one complete tool.
  • mr_eddy wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Bloke buys used car, bloke tells his mates, bloke thinks he knows something about cars, bloke knows knob all, bloke realises he has ballsed it up, bloke asks other people on an internet forum who know knob all about cars, bloke eventually bites the bullet, pays up and posts internet warning to anybody else who may be thinking of buying a used motor from Honest John's in Ramsgate.

    There is always one complete tool.

    Yes there is, as by your own words you haven't given them a chance to fix it yet.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    mr_eddy wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Bloke buys used car, bloke tells his mates, bloke thinks he knows something about cars, bloke knows knob all, bloke realises he has ballsed it up, bloke asks other people on an internet forum who know knob all about cars, bloke eventually bites the bullet, pays up and posts internet warning to anybody else who may be thinking of buying a used motor from Honest John's in Ramsgate.

    There is always one complete tool.

    Yes there is, as by your own words you haven't given them a chance to fix it yet.
    I think I read a different first post than you because I got the impression he wasn't telling his navigators l mates, professing to know about cars, giving any evidence about car knowledge, I didn't think a faulty car in 3 weeks is his fault, there's anything wrong with posting a question on consumer rights testing m relating to used cars on a site with ppl on who know a bit about cars and legal matters, I am glad he's not bitten a bullet judging by his regular return, he hasn't had to pay up anything nor should he based on what I read, he hasn't named or criticised anyone just given his facts and he doesn't deserve your hyper critical comment that IMHO is totally unfair, uncalled for, adds nothing of value and is a little like trolling.

    PS I posted deliberately in a style you seem to like so you'd hopefully take it on board before you next decide to comment.
  • mr_eddy wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Bloke buys used car, bloke tells his mates, bloke thinks he knows something about cars, bloke knows knob all, bloke realises he has ballsed it up, bloke asks other people on an internet forum who know knob all about cars, bloke eventually bites the bullet, pays up and posts internet warning to anybody else who may be thinking of buying a used motor from Honest John's in Ramsgate.

    There is always one complete tool.

    Yes there is, as by your own words you haven't given them a chance to fix it yet.
    I think I read a different first post than you because I got the impression he wasn't telling his navigators l mates, professing to know about cars, giving any evidence about car knowledge, I didn't think a faulty car in 3 weeks is his fault, there's anything wrong with posting a question on consumer rights testing m relating to used cars on a site with ppl on who know a bit about cars and legal matters, I am glad he's not bitten a bullet judging by his regular return, he hasn't had to pay up anything nor should he based on what I read, he hasn't named or criticised anyone just given his facts and he doesn't deserve your hyper critical comment that IMHO is totally unfair, uncalled for, adds nothing of value and is a little like trolling.

    PS I posted deliberately in a style you seem to like so you'd hopefully take it on board before you next decide to comment.


    It's a 2k runaround, it will have faults.
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    mr_eddy wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Bloke buys used car, bloke tells his mates, bloke thinks he knows something about cars, bloke knows knob all, bloke realises he has ballsed it up, bloke asks other people on an internet forum who know knob all about cars, bloke eventually bites the bullet, pays up and posts internet warning to anybody else who may be thinking of buying a used motor from Honest John's in Ramsgate.

    There is always one complete tool.

    Yes there is, as by your own words you haven't given them a chance to fix it yet.
    I think I read a different first post than you because I got the impression he wasn't telling his navigators l mates, professing to know about cars, giving any evidence about car knowledge, I didn't think a faulty car in 3 weeks is his fault, there's anything wrong with posting a question on consumer rights testing m relating to used cars on a site with ppl on who know a bit about cars and legal matters, I am glad he's not bitten a bullet judging by his regular return, he hasn't had to pay up anything nor should he based on what I read, he hasn't named or criticised anyone just given his facts and he doesn't deserve your hyper critical comment that IMHO is totally unfair, uncalled for, adds nothing of value and is a little like trolling.

    PS I posted deliberately in a style you seem to like so you'd hopefully take it on board before you next decide to comment.


    It's a 2k runaround, it will have faults.

    What faults are reasonable for a £2k runabout?
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  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Reasonable wear and tear, yes. persistent ABS warning light and burning oil, no.

    If he'd bought privately on Gumtree then caveat emptor, but since he's bought from a motor trader he does have some rights. And if he's going to reject the thing, now is the time.
  • I think some of you are not living in the real world. A starter car like a basic Fiesta is nearly 15k new, what are you people expecting for 2k.

    It's a cheap and cheerful runaround that's all, if the op had spent some real money and bought a decent car I may have some sympathy for him / her. As it is he / she has bought an old banger.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 41,069
    I think some of you are not living in the real world. A starter car like a basic Fiesta is nearly 15k new, what are you people expecting for 2k.

    It's a cheap and cheerful runaround that's all, if the op had spent some real money and bought a decent car I may have some sympathy for him / her. As it is he / she has bought an old banger.

    So let me get this right. Are you saying that although the law and consumer rights are on his side and the faults must be repaired or he can hand the car back he should just take it on the chin and either scrap the car or potentially spend more repairing it than it is worth? Is that what you would do? If that's your idea of the real world I'm quite happy not to be living in it.