Is Goretex pants?

jerry3571

Cheers for that. I heard one person using Thompson's Water Seal (damp proofing walls) which kept his Goretex Jacket beading the water off. Not sure that would be a safe option though ( i have tried this on winter gloves and is under test here, not recommending this for others though) The new Goretex seems like a good one but it's an expensive punt again. I sweat a lot too, I think people are different in the amount they sweat which makes people's experience different. :?
Tricky stuff, be better if these companies used a basic standard on waterproof rating and breathability rating.

boblo

@joey. The shakedry fabric is night and day compared to 'normal' Gore-Tex. However, it doesn't matter how much you spend and on what, working really hard in proper rain will get you soaked eventually. Even wicking up the sleeves or leaking down the head hole will eventually get you wet be it in a bin bag or a £500 top end Gore-Tex jacket.

Having said this, I've remained dryer with the shakedry than other types of Gore-Tex. I recently used mine in all day rain working hard and the main body part was still dry inside and out. There was some slight wicking up the sleeves and a bit round the neck.

Also consider Neoshell. I've been using this a lot recently. It's a very breathable soft shell that is totally waterproof. Stretchy, comfy and windproof. I've stayed as dry in this as in the shakedry so it's worth considering though having a 'just in case' lightweight shakedry layer is a bit more flexible overall.

tangled_metal

Sweat lots? Are you wearing too much insulation under your hardshell? Often excess sweating can be reduced through better choice of clothing under the waterproof. I don't mean to state the obvious and I'm sure you've considered it, but I thought it best to ask.

Wouldn't a barrier type of sealant just prevent the breathability completely making matters worse? Have you any experience of waterproofs around before goretex by any chance? Very waterproof from both sides but very wet inside from sweat. If you think goretex is bad, wait until you try cycling in what will be created by a waterproof barrier painted onto your jacket. You'll certainly be wet and warm, but mostly wet through.

jerry3571

I'm an old campaigner so got all types of base layers. I use thinner fleeces if it's cold and a cycling top for the pockets.
I have only used official products on my goretex so the Thompsons stuff is the last chance saloon for the jacket. Treated for the sake of science Both nikwax and Thompsons both smell the same. Both are breathable water repellents.
I do like to be on the warmer side when on the bike but that doesn't mean being overly warm, like anyone wouldn't want to be.

pblakeney

jerry3571 wrote:

I'm an old campaigner so got all types of base layers. I use thinner fleeces if it's cold and a cycling top for the pockets.
I have only used official products on my goretex so the Thompsons stuff is the last chance saloon for the jacket. Treated for the sake of science Both nikwax and Thompsons both smell the same. Both are breathable water repellents.
I do like to be on the warmer side when on the bike but that doesn't mean being overly warm, like anyone wouldn't want to be.

I thought waterproof Goretex products made and sold by Goretex were supposed to have a lifetime guarantee? Contact them if your jacket has lost it's proofness. If it's a third party manufacturer then that's different. Also, I could be wrong.

jerry3571

Fair point. Not sure if has to be the original purchaser who gets the lifetime guarantee? Mine was an eBay thing.
The Proshell jacket looks to be only good for the high Street shopping and the odd stagger back from the pub (I don't drink but you know what I mean) rather than any meaningful riding.

Alex99

It's about comfort range. You can overwhelm any shell, including a soft shell such as a Gabba. You can overwhelm a short sleeve race jersey on a summers evening if you're working hard. I have a DHB Event shell which I quite like as a wind proof when it's really cold and dry. If the pace is steady, it breathes well enough to be comfortable for several hours i.e. not getting progressively wetter. With better fabrics, you'll get wet from sweat at a lower rate, or will start to dry out when things cool down. If you're working really hard, then the rate of sweat build up might appear to be the same from one garment to the next. I rode last night and was slightly over dressed and had a windproof shell. I had loads of condensation on the inside. A plastic bag would have been only a bit worse.

As others have said, the DWR isn't what makes Gore tex waterproof. It keeps the face fabric drier for longer which helps with wet weather breathability. If it's dry, I don't think DWR or lack of, has any impact. I have a suspicion that consumer re-proofers adversely affect breathability. Nikwax wash in is wax based. How can coating a garment in wax maintain the same level of breathability? I'd like to be wrong on this. You might get a garment where the water beads on the surface, but I'm not sure it restores it to original performance. The exception is Paramo outdoor gear, which is non-membrane, just awesome and lives forever.

webboo

PBlakeney wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

I'm an old campaigner so got all types of base layers. I use thinner fleeces if it's cold and a cycling top for the pockets.
I have only used official products on my goretex so the Thompsons stuff is the last chance saloon for the jacket. Treated for the sake of science Both nikwax and Thompsons both smell the same. Both are breathable water repellents.
I do like to be on the warmer side when on the bike but that doesn't mean being overly warm, like anyone wouldn't want to be.

I thought waterproof Goretex products made and sold by Goretex were supposed to have a lifetime guarantee? Contact them if your jacket has lost it's proofness. If it's a third party manufacturer then that's different. Also, I could be wrong.

Apparently a life time guarantee for an outdoor jacket is a different sort of life time. I.E the length of time a jacket would reasonably be expected to last used regularly as it supposed to be used.

pblakeney

Webboo wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

jerry3571 wrote:

I'm an old campaigner so got all types of base layers. I use thinner fleeces if it's cold and a cycling top for the pockets.
I have only used official products on my goretex so the Thompsons stuff is the last chance saloon for the jacket. Treated for the sake of science Both nikwax and Thompsons both smell the same. Both are breathable water repellents.
I do like to be on the warmer side when on the bike but that doesn't mean being overly warm, like anyone wouldn't want to be.

I thought waterproof Goretex products made and sold by Goretex were supposed to have a lifetime guarantee? Contact them if your jacket has lost it's proofness. If it's a third party manufacturer then that's different. Also, I could be wrong.

Apparently a life time guarantee for an outdoor jacket is a different sort of life time. I.E the length of time a jacket would reasonably be expected to last used regularly as it supposed to be used.

Sounds like a catch all get out clause to me. :?
A month, a year, 10 years?

webboo

There is a thread every now and then on ukclimbing about this. Some companies are better than others at resolving issues such as Patagonia, similar to what you about Assos.

jerry3571

Think the DWR is just to stop "wetting out" which closes off the material to any transportation of moisture. If the surface beads then it should let moisture through the fabric. The treatment is supposed to replace the DWR which has been washed or worn off to return it to it's original state. It does "wet out" in rain even after the Nikwax TX Direct or tumble drying; Meh!
This is why I recently used the Proshell on a cool, dry day, so the outer surface was free to breathe. As said above, the jacket material can't keep up with the rates needed for cycling and is only good for a gentle stroll or feckin Tai Chi !
I'm aware if I pedal harder the more I sweat . Plus the fatter I am, the more I sweat too, especially on hills Tomorrow night I got bloody Spinning Class to where I will sweat to almost near death with my hairy boobs exposed to the ladies and gents there (full zipper jersey) :shock:
The tests I done of the different coat Materials, at home using the airing cupboard (as explained above) was to achieve a constant (temperature/humidity) for all the materials so I could compare them properly.
I love that the Karrimore Run windproof was probably the best in my tests and at £20 I find it good on the road too on a dry day to keep the draught off. I do feel a bit of a gimp believing in the Goretex hype and the web pages which bigged this Proshell Goretex up. :evil:

tangled_metal

Nikwax is water based not wax based.
http://www.nikwax.com/en-gb/productselector/waterproofing.php

It's also the stuff that is on paramo and paramo say it should be used on their shell garments regularly. If you rate their stuff then you are also rating the nikwax proofing too.

BTW you should also read the small print on the tags of your hardshell garments for care instructions. Different fabrics have slightly different care requirements to keep them at their best. IIRC eVent fabrics should be washed frequently to prevent oils building up on it and clogging the fabric affecting breathability, or some such theory. Goretex is different, they say don't wash it as much.

Another point to make about aftermarket surface treatments like grangers and nikwax they're different classes of chemicals with different use instructions. IIRC grangers is closer to the type of chemicals used by fabric manufacturers on their DWR treatments. You do however need to heat it up after coating your garment. Something about spreading out the treatment across the fabric more evenly.

navrig2

Is Goretex pants?

Yes, quite literally.

Back in the mid-80s I knew several people who worked for Gore. At that point they were still developing ideas for their products including the Goretex. One of my close friends worked in their industrial coatings factory but was also given a number of fabric products.

He had socks, balaclavas, folios cases all made from Goretex. He also had a pair of Goretex underpants!!

No doubt these were all just gimmicky things to be tried and discounted but nevertheless they were trying out most things. I managed to get a couple of cheap ski jackets and a cagoule (hillwalking) and there was no doubt in my mind that compared to other products at the time Gore were miles ahead.

IIRC they even looked at a Goretex tent but it generally didn't work because whilst waterproof there was insufficient temperature gradient between the warm side (inside) and the cold side (outside) of the fabric. The theory being that this temperature gradient was needed to create a pressure differential which drove the water vapour through the fabric and hence the source of its breathability. Water vapour condensed on the inside of the tent making in perform no better that more traditional two skin tents, perhaps even worse as the Gore tent would be heavier and after being used for a night (heavier fabric plus the condensed vapour).

Since then other products have appeared and given Gore some serious competition.

I bought the Perfetto (Gore windstopper) and prefer to wear that even when raining. Keeping warm over dry is the better option, IMHO.

I use Paramo Nikwax stuff for walking and general dog walking. I've even worn their smock for MTB stuff although I have moved to a soft shell Windstopper now.

StillGoing

A Goretex bivvy bag was the must have in '80s Army. If you could get your hands on a Goretex bergen cover, even better.