Lighter weight, or disc brakes, bigger benefit?

yiannism

Veronese68 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Yep. Thread went the way it always would. Disc v rim rather than Bike X v Bike Y.

Or rider X v rider Y.
So much bollox spouted. I know what I like and I’m happy with that.

What we like is different from what is better

timothyw

Getting back to the OP I don't think anyone who has only been riding for 6 months should drop over £2k on a superbike that they can't even test ride.

I bought my second bike after 6 months riding, it was the wrong size. Well, not wrong size, but certainly the wrong fit - high front end didn't suit my short legs. I've now been putting up with it or working around it, one way or another, for four years.

I bought a Fuji sportif because it came with 105 and had road gearing/set up. I should have got a caadx tiagra - geometry better for me, and an easy job to swap on road tires and road chainset/chainring. Tiagra made more sense for gearing too - side entry gear cables less likely to get sticky, easier to swap out when they do.

In short, no matter how much research you think you've done it is easy to make a mistake at this stage.

There's not much point having disk brakes unless you intend to ride in slippery conditions (ie gravel, narrow lanes with a load of crap on them) or in the wet. In either of those conditions disks will be considerably better than standard rim brakes. (And even if you disagree with that, you will at least agree that these conditions are more likely to prematurely wear rims with conventional brakes)

Exalith I can't comment on because Mavic don't sell them in my weight category (still no Open Pro Exaliths.... sigh).

If I know that I'm riding in the conditions that suit disk brakes, I would tend to be reluctant to take a £2k superbike - because an off can become very expensive.

I'd suggest two alternatives to the OP - if buying for bad conditions/the wet, then spend about a grand getting a decent disk braked road bike with hydraulic brakes - there are loads of options out there now. Once you've ridden it for a few months you will know if you need to have them on a new 'best' bike.

Don't do what I did though - make sure that you are happy with your current bike fit, and make sure you can replicate it on the new bike - compare stack and reach measurement. Use a stem calculator. It isn't hard, and you'll need to do it sooner or later.

If you don't ride in the wet, then spend a few hundred quid on upgrades for your existing bike to scratch that itch (I'm assuming you haven't already done this). New wheels, chainset, saddle, seatpost, bars, perhaps pedals could easily save a kg from what you already have (check how much what you have weighs before spending money, and take manufacturer quoted weights with a pinch of salt...). If you've already done that, then you could think about a new groupset or frame - it's fairly common to see superbike framesets from a year or two back for bargain prices if you keep your eye out, eg - https://www.merlincycles.com/eddy-merck ... 01824.html

Whatever you decide, best of luck with it!

bendertherobot

Sensible post. If the OP could clarify what bike he has, we could turn that into a wet weather bike, leaving the way clear for, well, whatever really......

mamba80

the OP said in his opening post

"Just to give some background, ive been riding for just under 6 months with a tiagra, rim braked aluminium bike at around 8.8kg"

so the obv choice for a wet weather winter bike.

Canyons can be tested at home, on dry roads for up to 30 days, so long as they r returned fit for sale, they ll go into their outlet shop and the punter gets a full refund, Canyon will collect the bike and send back to Germany FOC, try that with your Spesh from an LBS......

So depending on the repayment periods of his credit card, the OP could order both, try them and send one back without ever having to shell out for the unwanted bike.....

joebristol

the OP said in his opening post

"Just to give some background, ive been riding for just under 6 months with a tiagra, rim braked aluminium bike at around 8.8kg"

so the obv choice for a wet weather winter bike.

Canyons can be tested at home, on dry roads for up to 30 days, so long as they r returned fit for sale, they ll go into their outlet shop and the punter gets a full refund, Canyon will collect the bike and send back to Germany FOC, try that with your Spesh from an LBS......


Yes - apart from the rim brakes on wet muddy roads......

Good call on the Canyon test ride thing though. I wouldn’t want to buy a bike without at least sitting on it - but would prefer to test ride as well!

So depending on the repayment periods of his credit card, the OP could order both, try them and send one back without ever having to shell out for the unwanted bike.....

bendertherobot

Yes, we know the type of bike, but don't know what. So, for example, can it take 28c tyres, guards etc.

janwal

naavt,sorry but you are wrong about UCI and discs.Nearly all team Trek bikes are disc this year https://racing.trekbikes.com/sport/equi ... eam-bikes/
Aqua blue are only racing discs on their 1x bikes. In the tour of Dubai the Quickstep team had a mixture of rim and disc bikes racing at the same time. So their team cars must be able to cope with servicing them both without much problem.
Personally I ride only disc now. Had very good Ultegra rim bikes but the feel and modulation of discs just feels better to me.One finger braking even on the hoods is a real bonus.

ajdobbin

TimothyW wrote:

Getting back to the OP I don't think anyone who has only been riding for 6 months should drop over £2k on a superbike that they can't even test ride.

I bought my second bike after 6 months riding, it was the wrong size. Well, not wrong size, but certainly the wrong fit - high front end didn't suit my short legs. I've now been putting up with it or working around it, one way or another, for four years.

I bought a Fuji sportif because it came with 105 and had road gearing/set up. I should have got a caadx tiagra - geometry better for me, and an easy job to swap on road tires and road chainset/chainring. Tiagra made more sense for gearing too - side entry gear cables less likely to get sticky, easier to swap out when they do.

In short, no matter how much research you think you've done it is easy to make a mistake at this stage.

There's not much point having disk brakes unless you intend to ride in slippery conditions (ie gravel, narrow lanes with a load of crap on them) or in the wet. In either of those conditions disks will be considerably better than standard rim brakes. (And even if you disagree with that, you will at least agree that these conditions are more likely to prematurely wear rims with conventional brakes)

Exalith I can't comment on because Mavic don't sell them in my weight category (still no Open Pro Exaliths.... sigh).

If I know that I'm riding in the conditions that suit disk brakes, I would tend to be reluctant to take a £2k superbike - because an off can become very expensive.

I'd suggest two alternatives to the OP - if buying for bad conditions/the wet, then spend about a grand getting a decent disk braked road bike with hydraulic brakes - there are loads of options out there now. Once you've ridden it for a few months you will know if you need to have them on a new 'best' bike.

Don't do what I did though - make sure that you are happy with your current bike fit, and make sure you can replicate it on the new bike - compare stack and reach measurement. Use a stem calculator. It isn't hard, and you'll need to do it sooner or later.

If you don't ride in the wet, then spend a few hundred quid on upgrades for your existing bike to scratch that itch (I'm assuming you haven't already done this). New wheels, chainset, saddle, seatpost, bars, perhaps pedals could easily save a kg from what you already have (check how much what you have weighs before spending money, and take manufacturer quoted weights with a pinch of salt...). If you've already done that, then you could think about a new groupset or frame - it's fairly common to see superbike framesets from a year or two back for bargain prices if you keep your eye out, eg - https://www.merlincycles.com/eddy-merck ... 01824.html

Whatever you decide, best of luck with it!

Great most, many thanks. Given me plenty of food for thought!

bendertherobot wrote:

Sensible post. If the OP could clarify what bike he has, we could turn that into a wet weather bike, leaving the way clear for, well, whatever really......

Yeah sorry, I should have stated my current model first of all. It’s also a Canyon, an Endurace AL 5.0.

mamba80 wrote:

the OP said in his opening post

"Just to give some background, ive been riding for just under 6 months with a tiagra, rim braked aluminium bike at around 8.8kg"

so the obv choice for a wet weather winter bike.

Canyons can be tested at home, on dry roads for up to 30 days, so long as they r returned fit for sale, they ll go into their outlet shop and the punter gets a full refund, Canyon will collect the bike and send back to Germany FOC, try that with your Spesh from an LBS......

So depending on the repayment periods of his credit card, the OP could order both, try them and send one back without ever having to shell out for the unwanted bike.....

Thanks for that, I actually wasn’t aware of the free returns Canyon offer. I’m guessing it’s a fairly long process to get the bike picked up and money refunded, but when you’re spending £2k+ it’s gotta be worth it.

naavt

janwal wrote:

naavt,sorry but you are wrong about UCI and discs.Nearly all team Trek bikes are disc this year https://racing.trekbikes.com/sport/equi ... eam-bikes/
Aqua blue are only racing discs on their 1x bikes. In the tour of Dubai the Quickstep team had a mixture of rim and disc bikes racing at the same time. So their team cars must be able to cope with servicing them both without much problem.
Personally I ride only disc now. Had very good Ultegra rim bikes but the feel and modulation of discs just feels better to me.One finger braking even on the hoods is a real bonus.

I won't negate that they're probably the future (discs that is). I usually don't like Shimano but have to admit that Ultegra brakes work very well. If you feel that you've went up a notch with discs that's a good thing.

I don't see myself swapping to discs in the near future, but that's me. I'm 47 so probably old school. Never felt the need for more braking power than I have, and never felt my hands hurting after long braking descents like some folks here have felt.

And a previous poster is right. This is about 2 bikes. Not rims vs discs. So my answer is: I would probably go with the disc bike, not because it has discs, but because it has a newer groupset. If both bikes are the same price, that alone would justify it.

Wierdagger

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Have you ridden exalith rims?

Nope

timothyw

ajdobbin wrote:

It’s also a Canyon, an Endurace AL 5.0.

That is a quality bike that you've got already then, which in a way makes the answer trickier!

You could take the approach that the Endurace will remain as your wet weather/training bike, in which case you'd want to probably put some larger tyres than you have already (I expect 700x28 is doable) and probably look at getting some mudguards for it (although Canyon haven't made this easy by not including proper mudguard mounts) but otherwise leave it as it is.

This will make it rather more pleasant to ride on those days that you wouldn't want to take a new best bike out on, and with it's tiagra components it'll remain cheap to service (or repair in the unlikely event you come off on it)

Or you could put it on a diet - swapping on an ultegra groupset will save you half a kilogram, some flash new wheels could save 400-500g depending on how much you spend - you could look for some exalith wheels which as mentioned upthread, which should improve wet braking as an added bonus.

This might stave off the new bike urges, and if you do the groupset yourself then you will learn a huge amount that'll help you performing maintenance down the line.

If you do ride a lot in the wet I would still look at getting something with discs (I commute year round in all weathers and find them indispensable) but if you are a weekend warrior who stays indoors when the weather is grim there's very little point spending extra to get them.

One thing to bear in mind for the endurace, is has a fairly relaxed geometry - so for a given size, the 'stack' is more, the 'reach' is less. The new bikes you've looked at are a bit more racy - so to get the same fit you might need to put a shorter stem on them, depending on how you have your stem set currently.

To go back to my original point though, it is a quality bike that you have right now - whatever your goals are for riding - whether it's distance, racing, club runs, whatever - that bike is not holding you back.

ajdobbin

TimothyW wrote:

ajdobbin wrote:

It’s also a Canyon, an Endurace AL 5.0.

That is a quality bike that you've got already then, which in a way makes the answer trickier!

You could take the approach that the Endurace will remain as your wet weather/training bike, in which case you'd want to probably put some larger tyres than you have already (I expect 700x28 is doable) and probably look at getting some mudguards for it (although Canyon haven't made this easy by not including proper mudguard mounts) but otherwise leave it as it is.

This will make it rather more pleasant to ride on those days that you wouldn't want to take a new best bike out on, and with it's tiagra components it'll remain cheap to service (or repair in the unlikely event you come off on it)

Or you could put it on a diet - swapping on an ultegra groupset will save you half a kilogram, some flash new wheels could save 400-500g depending on how much you spend - you could look for some exalith wheels which as mentioned upthread, which should improve wet braking as an added bonus.

This might stave off the new bike urges, and if you do the groupset yourself then you will learn a huge amount that'll help you performing maintenance down the line.

If you do ride a lot in the wet I would still look at getting something with discs (I commute year round in all weathers and find them indispensable) but if you are a weekend warrior who stays indoors when the weather is grim there's very little point spending extra to get them.

One thing to bear in mind for the endurace, is has a fairly relaxed geometry - so for a given size, the 'stack' is more, the 'reach' is less. The new bikes you've looked at are a bit more racy - so to get the same fit you might need to put a shorter stem on them, depending on how you have your stem set currently.

To go back to my original point though, it is a quality bike that you have right now - whatever your goals are for riding - whether it's distance, racing, club runs, whatever - that bike is not holding you back.

Thanks for the reply, lots of good points.

The plan is to keep the Endurace for wet weather/training rides etc. I’ve fitted Conti 4 season tyres which have given me a lot more confidence on wet roads, corners etc. Also I’ve got some SKS raceblade clip-on mudguards that seem to do the job

The weather rarely puts me off a ride, unless the wind is really bad. Rain I can handle, but gale force winds are just no fun, and of course can be dangerous.

When I first bought the Endurace I deliberately set my sights a bit lower financially, in case I didn’t really take to road cycling (with the thought of looking to upgrade if I found myself enjoying it). Luckily I’ve found myself loving it, and have clocked up 2.5k miles since September.

sloppyschleckonds

Wierdagger wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Have you ridden exalith rims?

Nope

A bit pointless you recommending discs over them then.

As you were

thegreatdivide

ajdobbin wrote:

TimothyW wrote:

ajdobbin wrote:

It’s also a Canyon, an Endurace AL 5.0.

That is a quality bike that you've got already then, which in a way makes the answer trickier!

You could take the approach that the Endurace will remain as your wet weather/training bike, in which case you'd want to probably put some larger tyres than you have already (I expect 700x28 is doable) and probably look at getting some mudguards for it (although Canyon haven't made this easy by not including proper mudguard mounts) but otherwise leave it as it is.

This will make it rather more pleasant to ride on those days that you wouldn't want to take a new best bike out on, and with it's tiagra components it'll remain cheap to service (or repair in the unlikely event you come off on it)

Or you could put it on a diet - swapping on an ultegra groupset will save you half a kilogram, some flash new wheels could save 400-500g depending on how much you spend - you could look for some exalith wheels which as mentioned upthread, which should improve wet braking as an added bonus.

This might stave off the new bike urges, and if you do the groupset yourself then you will learn a huge amount that'll help you performing maintenance down the line.

If you do ride a lot in the wet I would still look at getting something with discs (I commute year round in all weathers and find them indispensable) but if you are a weekend warrior who stays indoors when the weather is grim there's very little point spending extra to get them.

One thing to bear in mind for the endurace, is has a fairly relaxed geometry - so for a given size, the 'stack' is more, the 'reach' is less. The new bikes you've looked at are a bit more racy - so to get the same fit you might need to put a shorter stem on them, depending on how you have your stem set currently.

To go back to my original point though, it is a quality bike that you have right now - whatever your goals are for riding - whether it's distance, racing, club runs, whatever - that bike is not holding you back.

Thanks for the reply, lots of good points.

The plan is to keep the Endurace for wet weather/training rides etc. I’ve fitted Conti 4 season tyres which have given me a lot more confidence on wet roads, corners etc. Also I’ve got some SKS raceblade clip-on mudguards that seem to do the job

The weather rarely puts me off a ride, unless the wind is really bad. Rain I can handle, but gale force winds are just no fun, and of course can be dangerous.

When I first bought the Endurace I deliberately set my sights a bit lower financially, in case I didn’t really take to road cycling (with the thought of looking to upgrade if I found myself enjoying it). Luckily I’ve found myself loving it, and have clocked up 2.5k miles since September.

If buying a new bike means you're going to have a wet weather back up then the lighter bike is IMO a no brainer - it's a perfect climbers machine. The Mavics are super stiff and, should you get caught in the rain, you'll have the Exalith performance for security.

jimmocrates

I opted for discs when buying in August. My thoughts so far:
1) Braking control/modulation/power is superior to the ultegra.
2) Lancashire is cold, wet and agricultural. You don't need to worry about cooking your rims on 10km descents. You do need to worry about braking with rims covered in agricultural excrement whilst descending ludicrously steep/narrow/twisty roads, that inevitably break up on the steep cambered corners. Discs have been better in this aspect - especially with the wider tyres that they tend to accommodate.
3) Although they perform better in situations as per above, they sound awful
4) When the sun comes out, one of the simple pleasures is the shadow of your bike on the road. I have to admit it, discs are just a bit uglier than rim brakes.

Ultegra calipers are great - I kept the Defy too, but from what I gather, Cornwall terrain is more like Lancashire than high mountains - in this regard, personally I'd be looking at bikes with discs, but with your kind of budget, you'll come away with a fantastic bike regardless.

kajjal

It really depends what your priorities are. The benefit of decent hydraulic disc brakes is they are several times more powerful for a lot less effort. This gives greater modulation, feel and control over braking. This means in real life you can brake harder with more control. Even to the point you can get the bike under control when rim brakes would have lead to the bike washing out under you. For heavier riders, in the wet or on loose surfaces this is a big advantage. For light riders in the dry not such a big advantage but still very noticeable as my wife “politely” asked about when using ultegra rim brakes after being on a bike with good hydraulic disc brakes.

Have a think what you want from a bike in terms of type and spec. And make sure you get the right bike for you.