Six Nations 2018

Pross

mudsucker wrote:

If you watch the player before you can see it comes off his knee, then hand. So its a knock on.

Doesn't matter if it was grounded or not (it wasn't in my opinion).

World Rugby disagree Ndola aye a yes outdoor have been awarded.

That said, I'm now fed up of a Facebook feed full of people who only ever watch rugby when there are internationals saying we were robbed and posting tables of how things should look. I'm doubtful that a conversion would have been scored so even at the most simplistic end of that argument Wales would probably have still been a point short but it's impossible to know how things would have panned out afterwards. For example, Wales kicked the final penalty as they needed more than a converted try but if they had been within less than 7 points at that stage may have chased a try instead and come away with nothing. Had the disallowed try been in the last few minutes there'd be more of a case for the 'cost us the game' argument.

bendertherobot

Pross wrote:

mudsucker wrote:

If you watch the player before you can see it comes off his knee, then hand. So its a knock on.

Doesn't matter if it was grounded or not (it wasn't in my opinion).

World Rugby disagree Ndola aye a yes outdoor have been awarded.

That said, I'm now fed up of a Facebook feed full of people who only ever watch rugby when there are internationals saying we were robbed and posting tables of how things should look. I'm doubtful that a conversion would have been scored so even at the most simplistic end of that argument Wales would probably have still been a point short but it's impossible to know how things would have panned out afterwards. For example, Wales kicked the final penalty as they needed more than a converted try but if they had been within less than 7 points at that stage may have chased a try instead and come away with nothing. Had the disallowed try been in the last few minutes there'd be more of a case for the 'cost us the game' argument.

Timelines. People always fail to understand timelines. Especially pundits. There are moments in each game where, had X happened and entire new timeline would have been created. So, for example, "had we kicked 3 penalties" is irksome as, if one had been kicked, a restart would have happened rather than a dropout, thus creating an entirely new timeline where penalties 2 and 3 could never have occurred.

In the present case the timeline point is less important. Both the penalty and conversion, failed or not, still result in an English restart so, we have to assume, the game moves forward in a similar way. But, of course, any change in the minute detail of a game has huge differences. We'll never know is the answer. But there's sufficient emotion in a game to think that, had the try been given, things would have changed in a very subtle way.

World Rugby's intervention is, I think, unfortunate. It does seem to be 'us' that has these issues though, France last year, the law clarification on restarts etc. It's unfortunate that they need to intervene but, secretly, good to know they agree.

veronese68

As an occasional viewer watching the match in a busy pub so I couldn't really hear the commentary and with an occasionally interrupted view I said it was not a try. My mate also thought it wasn't but we disagreed about the reasons, he thought there had been a knock on, I saw in the replay that it came off his leg so was happy with that but wasn't convinced about the grounding. I thought there should have been a higher degree of 'control', but realise that is not the case. I accept it should have been given but, what's done is done. Should world rugby have said it should have been a try? In private to the officials involved, yes.

laurentian

World Rugby do look a bit daft by saying this.

vimfuego

In fairness to the TMO he looked at the pictures to hand and made a confident call without dithering about for ages and looking at frame by frame analysis for 10 minutes.

I think he was asked "Try or no try?" (ie I don't know, you tell me) rather than "any reason I cannot award the try?" (ie I think it's OK, but is there evidence to the contrary?) so unless there was absolute certainty about it, I guess he's got to say no try. It was by no means a clear decision (hence the debate despite what World Rugby said days after the event rather than on the spot), so not a massive howler in the grand scheme of things.

Now, we can debate the "correctness" of the decision he made til the cows come home (I'm still dubious that Cueto was in touch in that 2007 WC Final) it doesn't really matter now & I agree with the above that it's all academic anyway, if he had awarded it who knows what might have happened - a Welsh win was in no way a certainty. England might have taken the kick up the ar5e and scored 4 more tries.

Like you say though, if you believe soshul meeja then England/Wales/*insert team here* have never ever bean beaten in a game of rugby, just robbed by referees and cheated by the oppo. FFS it's not wendyball. Is it?

tangled_metal

Starting to sound like round ball fans!

Whatifs don't matter, recorded score does. Let the refs work it out so they're better in the future. As fans move on to the next match. It's all good rugby whatever the truth really is.

laurentian

The weird thing is that, without recourse to TMO, the ref could not have awarded the try anyway . . .

Pross

Veronese68 wrote:

Should world rugby have said it should have been a try? In private to the officials involved, yes.

Agreed, World Rugby didn't need to and shouldn't have commented. Whilst I think the decision was wrong I think the TMO made a decision in good faith based on what he could / couldn't see and this unnecessarily embarrasses him.

I still have a far bigger issue with the French abuse of the HIA laws last year as it was blatant cheating that no-one could do anything about and taking advantage of a law put in place to protect player welfare.

bendertherobot

laurentian

Can anybody see anything other than French, Irish and English victories this weekend?

kingstongraham

vimfuego wrote:

I think he was asked "Try or no try?" (ie I don't know, you tell me) rather than "any reason I cannot award the try?" (ie I think it's OK, but is there evidence to the contrary?) so unless there was absolute certainty about it, I guess he's got to say no try. It was by no means a clear decision (hence the debate despite what World Rugby said days after the event rather than on the spot), so not a massive howler in the grand scheme of things.

Not meaning to perpetuate this, but was on holiday last week... The TMO said "grounding was by England first", so doesn't really matter what the question was, he would have disallowed the try either way.

Think there's two cracking matches this weekend, and maybe France can work out a way to throw their match away at the end again.

laurentian

Think there's two cracking matches this weekend, and maybe France can work out a way to throw their match away at the end again.[/quote]

. . . Italy have their best chance against this French side I would say

coopster_the_1st

laurentian wrote:

Can anybody see anything other than French, Irish and English victories this weekend?

That's what I am seeing however if Italy start strong and take the lead then they could provide an upset

vimfuego

Yeah have to agree - hoping Italy get off to a good start.

Has the potential to be a great weekend in terms of the action.

No doubt the TMO / Ref will rob somebody and that will be all anyone focuses on

kingstongraham

Wales have Halfpenny, Biggar and Liam W back this week, and North on the bench again. Navidi managing to keep Tipuric out shows how good he's been. Think this could be a close game.

Pross

laurentian wrote:

Can anybody see anything other than French, Irish and English victories this weekend?

I think Ireland v Wales can go either way. Scotland could manage it if they play like they did in the Autumn but they were poor against Wales and took too long to get it together against France, if they do that against England they'll never get back in it. France v Italy should definitely go to the French, Italy no longer have a single player that would get into any of the other 5 teams as first choice. However, (cliche alert) you never know what French side will turn up and if they will be bothered.

veronese68

Coopster the 1st wrote:

laurentian wrote:

Can anybody see anything other than French, Irish and English victories this weekend?

That's what I am seeing however if Italy start strong and take the lead then they could provide an upset

Hope so, but maintaining it for long enough seems to be their problem.

crispybug2

France leading Italy 11-7 at half time, but I can, and I may be proved wrong here, see bad portents for the French here!

They're playing in an unfamiliar, two thirds full stadium, they are already throwing miracle passes and the crowds nervousness may transfer onto the players,

Pross

Possibly the worst quality 6 Nations game I've ever watched. Two very poor teams playing error strewn rugby.

crispybug2

Pross wrote:

Possibly the worst quality 6 Nations game I've ever watched. Two very poor teams playing error strewn rugby.

You're right, it's absolutely dire!

There won't be a man of the match, just a decision on whose been the least awful!!

Pross

crispybug2 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Possibly the worst quality 6 Nations game I've ever watched. Two very poor teams playing error strewn rugby.

You're right, it's absolutely dire!

There won't be a man of the match, just a decision on whose been the least awful!!

I'd say Negri has been the standout player. He's carried well and has shown great hands on occasion.

veronese68

Pross wrote:

Possibly the worst quality 6 Nations game I've ever watched. Two very poor teams playing error strewn rugby.

Had people over so I recorded it, might not bother watching then.

Pross

Veronese68 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Possibly the worst quality 6 Nations game I've ever watched. Two very poor teams playing error strewn rugby.

Had people over so I recorded it, might not bother watching then.

It had its moments and a couple of decent tries, there were just a lot of mistakes by both teams but especially France who should have scored 3 or 4 more tries.

crispybug2

Veronese68 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Possibly the worst quality 6 Nations game I've ever watched. Two very poor teams playing error strewn rugby.

Had people over so I recorded it, might not bother watching then.

Just watch the highlights, although I suspect that will be a bit on the short side!

crispybug2

One of my rugby mates posted this on Facebook...

“How on earth did France and Italy manage to score 51 points in the most turgid shitfest of a game that you’re ever likely to see?”

He makes a fair point!!

crispybug2

Anyway today sees Ireland vs Wales followed by Scotland vs England

I think that there will be victories for Ireland and England although I think it’ll be close in both, whatever as long as they are better than last night

Pross

The scoreline was in danger of flattering Wales there. I'm not sure why they insist on playing this 'counter attacking' style, yes they have very good defence but if you constantly allow a team as good as Ireland to run at you and try to absorb them they will eventually score as we saw today. If you are playing that way then you have to do a better job of looking after the ball in the rucks and the tackle area and not give up turnovers and penalties. They demonstrated how good they can be when they do protect the ball and get some pace in the game. Sexton had a rare off day to keep it tight until Anscombe decided to chuck a suicide pass when all they needed was to keep the ball and go through phases. If I were Irish I would be worried how easily Wales cut them open with such limited possession.

crispybug2

Ireland 37 - 27 Wales

Far better match than last nights show, although to be fair it would have been difficult to be worse!

Ireland were good value for their win as Wales were always chasing the game but there was enough fragility about them to encourage both Scotland and England.

crispybug2

Apparently there was a tunnel scuffle involving English and Scottish players just after the warm up!

Could spice things up for the match!

diplodicus

Wow :shock: