Disc or no disc?

pilot_pete · January 2018

Veronese68 wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

I believe Shimano are addressing this by making the pad gap slightly wider which will allow faster insertion - I think it came from feedback from the pro peloton.

PP

Rather than making the gap bigger they could chamfer the pads to create a ramp and guide the disc in. I'd say they could do the same to the discs but hysteria about circular saw blades would kick off again. A rounded profile to the edge of the disc will also help with this.

Indeed, I can only assume it is a cost based solution they are looking at - I guess altering the pad width is cheaper than altering the manufacture process for pads and discs? Other solutions may well come with a ‘next generation’ advance in the future...

PP

Beatmaker · January 2018

And do your mountain bike disc brake pads wear out as quickly in crap conditions?

PP

Are you sure it's not down to maintenance? I've noticed the pads on my disc bike could do with replacing but I've still done hundreds of miles on them and they brake fine. Having said that, if I went out on a long gritty ride and they completely wore out resulting in me being unable to stop I wouldn't blame the pads.

So you know about different pad materials and different wear rates according to conditions, organic/resin pads wear quickly in bad conditions. I think there was a problem with early Hy/Rd calipers not self adjusting which may have exacerbated the issue, not sure about other semi-hydraulic systems. I'm running a Parabox semi-hydraulic system and not had a problem.

Eh? If you're that experienced why didn't you just change the pad material? Which, incidentally, is no different to changing brake block materials to suit weather/rim type - and still doesn't alter the fact that you've taken a decision to wear your rims rather than brake pads/rotors. Astounding.

Thanks for all the feedback. You've all assumed I wore the pads right down, the wear was enough to cause issues with braking, but was less than 25% wear.. I also tried different pad compounds (I'm not sure why people have assumed I didn't). The issue was with (I believe) the combination of Campagnolo lever and cable/hydraulic caliper and a relatively small amount of pad wear (less than 25%) meaning that the lever throw was not enough to engage the pad fully with the disc after a particularly long ride in bad conditions, of which I did many over the year in Finland and the UK. If the caliper was fully hydraulic and self adjusting, the issue wouldn't have happened.

The issue is documented if you search for it, but by all means blame me for not replacing pads/compounds etc.

veronese68 · January 2018

Beatmaker wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback. You've all assumed I wore the pads right down, the wear was enough to cause issues with braking, but was less than 25% wear.

You didn’t explain yourself very well then. I thought you should know about pad material but mentioned it as the first thing to try. I also mentioned a known issue with early Hy/Rd but don’t know what system you are running. So your problem wasn’t discs it was a badly designed brake, going away from discs seems a bit extreme. Getting better calipers would have solved the issue.

pilot_pete · January 2018

A bad experience of evidently incompatible parts (even if they were sold as being compatible) is not a valid reason to dismiss a system which when designed properly using compatible parts works pretty faultlessly...

PP

milemuncher1 · February 2018

lostboysaint wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

Discs on a Hybrid / mountain bike, fine, no need on a road bike. I borrowed a disc brake equipped road bike ( hydraulic ) for a couple of weeks. It was nothing but a pain in the backside, when I had to sort a rear puncture out, in the dark.

That presumably is your unfamiliarity with disks though? I'm a long way from the bike mechanic of the year, but due to familiarity i'm mostly a MTBer punctures and disks aren't a issue.

I’ve never had the issues I encountered with the disc-ed road bike, on MTBs or Hybrids. So not a problem with lack of familiarity with disc brakes on bikes in general, just that the road bike disc set up ( not CX / gravel, but proper road ) seemed to have much tighter tolerances, and it was just a massive wind up, getting 30 odd miles ridden, with the rear brakes honking like a demented goose. I’ve never had that much grief / issues with MTB / Hybrids. It was easy enough to sort, once back home, with proper lighting and some tools, but a roadside fix, in the dark, 30 miles from base, screw that. Never again.

Why would you need tools to adjust anything brake related if you'd repaired a puncture? It's operator error and nothing else.

There speaks someone who clearly hasn’t tried it in the circumstances I described, what a surprise, someone with no experience of the subject in question spouting off about the subject in question

milemuncher1 · February 2018

Pilot Pete wrote:

A bad experience of evidently incompatible parts (even if they were sold as being compatible) is not a valid reason to dismiss a system which when designed properly using compatible parts works pretty faultlessly...

PP

That’s a distinct possibility, and One Ive never encountered on any other ( non road ) disc equipped bike I’ve owned or ridden. But there are a multitude of other reasons for my dislike of discs on a road bike, that was just the one that ‘put the tin hat’ on it, for me.

micrographia · February 2018

One and a half winters on my hydro disc bike, with the same set of organic pads on North Yorks roads, and a couple of punctures fixed with no more fuss than usual. Only difference to my rim braked summer bike is that I stop a lot better in the wet and if I haven't had to brake for a while on mucky roads there is a bit of noise when I do - a wet winter club run sounds like a flock of banshees approaching a junction

. Don't miss grinding my rims away either. Old bike went through a set of zondas after riding in all seasons for a couple of years. Wouldn't go back to rim brakes for a winter bike.

Not in a hurry to change to discs in the summer though, standards still seem to be getting sorted out - mount, disc size, axles and frame geometry; I like the shorter wheelbase rim brakes allow on a racy summer bike, winter bike handles like a barge in comparison and I'm not convinced by the various fiddly solutions put forward by the likes of Specialized and Cervelo to address this.

ayjaycee · February 2018

DeVlaeminck wrote:

.....in the end I had to turn the bike upside down which is something I'd never normally do.......

I have never understood the reluctance, even when it can make a job easier - please enlighten me. That said, I’m pretty sure that the correct answer is not because it says so in the so called ‘rules’.

w00dster · February 2018

Turning the bike upside down can scuff the saddle and the hoods. But I have to admit to doing it to both rim and disc brake bikes, it's just way easier for me.

venster · February 2018

Hydro Disc.

But I'm a chubby lard that lives in the hilly Peak District and needs all the help I can to stop....

Seriously though, I've always had rim brakes with Swisstop pads but quickly realised after moving to a hilly area I needed something that would stop me when I wanted.

Got a bike with hydro discs and wouldn't go back to rim brakes again....

ayjaycee · February 2018

w00dster wrote:

Turning the bike upside down can scuff the saddle and the hoods.

Yeah, that's pretty obvious from one glance at mine! People should always treat their own stuff as they see fit and, to me, the odd scuff and scar doesn't really matter as long as they are only cosmetic.

PK1 · February 2018

My only issue with road discs is that they get contaminated by diesel spilt on the roads. This makes them squeal like a pig and they don't work very well too. Cleaning with brake cleaner doesn't fix it.

DeVlaeminck · February 2018

ayjaycee wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

.....in the end I had to turn the bike upside down which is something I'd never normally do.......

I have never understood the reluctance, even when it can make a job easier - please enlighten me. That said, I’m pretty sure that the correct answer is not because it says so in the so called ‘rules’.

So called "rules" ??

No I don't like tipping the bike upside down for reasons others have mentioned, hoods and saddle can get scuffed, you have to remove bottles and computers, it's just easier not to if you don't have to which I never have with rim brakes. In the incident I was referring to it was pitch black, sleeting, freezing fingers and to get off the road I had to tip the bike up on a verge in 2 inches of mud - it definitely wasn't preferable.

lostboysaint · February 2018

PK1 wrote:

My only issue with road discs is that they get contaminated by diesel spilt on the roads. This makes them squeal like a pig and they don't work very well too. Cleaning with brake cleaner doesn't fix it.

In a year of riding disc brakes on the road I can say that I haven't had diesel contaminated brake pads/rotors.

And the rim of a wheel is a lot closer to any diesel contamination than a rotor.......

pilot_pete · February 2018

PK1 wrote:

My only issue with road discs is that they get contaminated by diesel spilt on the roads. This makes them squeal like a pig and they don't work very well too. Cleaning with brake cleaner doesn't fix it.

Not an issue I have ever suffered from riding disc braked road bikes in summer, winter and everything in between for the last six years. Having said that, I never suffered it with rim braked bikes either. Just where on earth are you riding that yo7 encounter all these diesel spills that contaminate your discs?

And had you thought about the possibility that your squealing discs were completely unrelated to possible diesel contamination? That’s why cleaning the discs has not cured your squealing...

PP

PK1 · February 2018

A butane blow torch on the pads / rotors fixed it. I also know of another rider who has had the same problems, maybe because I ride every day in all weathers I pick up this crap off the roads.

naavt · February 2018

I’ll just transcribe what I’ve been told today by my LBS mechanic, a person with many years of proved experience fiddling with the bikes of many pro teams here, so don’t kill the messenger.

I remembered to ask him about OP’s question since it’s a “so contemporary” subject, and the answer was like:

“Discs are crap, at least today. Can’t tell about tomorrow though”, and he went to explain me why he thinks that way, and although it was a nearly 2 hour conversation, I’ll highlight the most important bits:

1st - They are a manufacturers merchandise strategy to force people to switch to “new wave, supposedly better” bikes, creating a false sense of need of a new technology and imposing the marketing strategy of obsolescence about the bike that we all have at home.

2nd - One big selling point is the braking in wet conditions “they say”. But let’s put things into perspective this way:

A) Eficiient braking will always depend on the limits of tire grip, and in wet conditions things get scary very fast either way, be it rim or disc brake. Modulation is a false question, since it is perfectly fine in a good rim brake/pad/wheel combination. If they weren’t, there shound’t be Peloton pros riding them out there at those speeds that none of us can’t reach in normal conditions.

Who wants to spend big bucks in a state of the art bike to ride it in winter time, when in those conditions you ride on the safe side of the equation (so having a light touch on the brakes for obvious reasons)?

3rd - If you buy a relatively cheap bike for the winter season, or even summer for that matter, with not enough stiff wheels, you are certainly going to deal with pad rubbing your rotors due to flexing of the parts involved. That alone not only causes annoying rubbing sound when cycling, but also unwanted friction and uneven rotor wear.

4th - An Ultegra (so mid range spec here), rotor costs about 60€!!!!

5th - Due to system’s complexity, maintenance is harder, with shorter intervals and more expensive (“which is better for me since I live from this business”).

6th - From experience, hydraulic disc brake levers are prone to issues that don’t exist in rim brake levers.

7th - In the dry, they certainly won’t brake any better than a good dual pivot, or a state of the art direct mount brake like Campy Record or Dura-ace.

So in the end, rim brakes for me please!

pilot_pete · February 2018

naavt wrote:

I’ll just transcribe what I’ve been told today by my LBS mechanic, a person with many years of proved experience fiddling with the bikes of many pro teams here, so don’t kill the messenger.

I remembered to ask him about OP’s question since it’s a “so contemporary” subject, and the answer was like:

“Discs are crap, at least today. Can’t tell about tomorrow though”, and he went to explain me why he thinks that way, and although it was a nearly 2 hour conversation, I’ll highlight the most important bits:

1st - They are a manufacturers merchandise strategy to force people to switch to “new wave, supposedly better” bikes, creating a false sense of need of a new technology and imposing the marketing strategy of obsolescence about the bike that we all have at home.

2nd - One big selling point is the braking in wet conditions “they say”. But let’s put things into perspective this way:

A) Eficiient braking will always depend on the limits of tire grip, and in wet conditions things get scary very fast either way, be it rim or disc brake. Modulation is a false question, since it is perfectly fine in a good rim brake/pad/wheel combination. If they weren’t, there shound’t be Peloton pros riding them out there at those speeds that none of us can’t reach in normal conditions.

Who wants to spend big bucks in a state of the art bike to ride it in winter time, when in those conditions you ride on the safe side of the equation (so having a light touch on the brakes for obvious reasons)?

3rd - If you buy a relatively cheap bike for the winter season, or even summer for that matter, with not enough stiff wheels, you are certainly going to deal with pad rubbing your rotors due to flexing of the parts involved. That alone not only causes annoying rubbing sound when cycling, but also unwanted friction and uneven rotor wear.

4th - An Ultegra (so mid range spec here), rotor costs about 60€!!!!

5th - Due to system’s complexity, maintenance is harder, with shorter intervals and more expensive (“which is better for me since I live from this business”).

6th - From experience, hydraulic disc brake levers are prone to issues that don’t exist in rim brake levers.

7th - In the dry, they certainly won’t brake any better than a good dual pivot, or a state of the art direct mount brake like Campy Record or Dura-ace.

So in the end, rim brakes for me please!

1. Maybe.

2. A. Evidence? I think it is generally accepted that disc brakes are better in the wet and jus5 because he says modulation is a ‘false question’, whatever that is, doesn’t make it true. You would be hard pushed to find many, even disc brake haters, who would argue that rim brakes are better in the wet.

B. Because that is when you get the biggest benefits - in winter conditions. Why does it have to be big bucks? Plenty of bikes with hydro discs available at the same price points as those with rim brakes. Indeed many manufacturers are increasing their disc offerings and reducing rim brake road models, a trend which may be related to your point 1, but is a fact whatever, hence no requirement for big buck spends. Also, an individual can spend what they like and remember, a fortune to one person is small change to another, whether he likes it or not...

3. If you buy a cheap bike with shit wheels they'll flex. No surprises there then. :roll: So if you buy a cheap rim brake bike with crap calipers they won’t stop as well as Dura Ace. The point is?

4. Google showed £40 without discount for Ultegra Freeza Rotor. I can get 10% off that without trying. That’s £36. How often does he think someone needs to change their rotors? My winter bike is still on its original rotors after 6 winters. And they are only cheap Aztec rotors. Why does he think that Ultegra is mid range (as it is only one down from Dura Ace) and that anyone fitting discs needs to have Ultegra on a winter build? Much cheaper options out there, just like rim brake pads which range from a couple of quid up to £25ish for top end stuff which incidentally you’d have to replace far more often...

5. Complexity? Harder? More often? I don’t think your LBS mechanic knows that much if he thinks that. The levers maybe more complex in design but that doesn’t make the maintenance harder or more complex, just different. Changing pads is MUCH simpler and takes seconds. Changing rim brake pads and adjusting their position takes minutes, if you are replacing the inserts and not the whole thing it takes several minutes. I have been running hydro discs for over two years on my summer bike and the only maintenance I have had to do is change the pads a few times. If you have internal cable routing changing a brake cable is more of a faff than changing the fluid with a bleed. These jobs are only occasional jobs.

Please get him to explain the greater complexity of the maintenance as I’ve installed systems (which is a little more complex), but not exactly hard and then it is pretty maintenance free save for the points above. And what shorter intervals is he talking about? Changing the fluid occasionally? I spent more time changing pads and re-adjusting rim brakes to allow for wear, especially when doing heavy winter mileages than I have ever spent on disc brake maintenance.

6. Err, yeah, they’re different that’s why. But I’ve never had an issue with a rim brake lever or a hydraulic lever. If it’s donald ducked, it’s donald ducked and not exactly hard to change.

7. Depends what rim you are braking against as it will be different with carbon vs alloy rims whereas disc braking is consistent with either. But generally yes I’d agree. So what? This seems to be yet another argument to say they are not needed therefore people shouldn’t have them. Plenty of things aren’t needed but it is about choice.

You don’t need indexed STIs as downtube shifters we’re simple, reliable and worked. But why do all manufacturers fit STI type shifters these days? You don’t need 11spd cassettes, isn’t 5 enough as it is simpler and more robust? You don’t need drop handlebars, you don’t need wheels that weigh less than 2kg, you don’t need carbon fibre or titanium frames, you don’t need quick releases for wheels, you don’t need clipless pedals etc etc etc.

Nobody forces anyone to buy anything they don’t want. If you don’t want discs then don’t have discs but why is it that those who don’t want them feel they have to berate anyone who does want them by continually throwing the ‘they aren’t necessary’, ‘they’re a waste of money’, ‘they’re ugly’ arguments around? Live and let live. Everyone will be over it in a few years when they become the norm, just like clipless pedals, STI levers etc...

PP

webboo · February 2018

Do disc pads wear out faster than rim brake blocks, as folk talk of changing their pads quite a lot.

mrb123 · February 2018

Webboo wrote:

Do disc pads wear out faster than rim brake blocks, as folk talk of changing their pads quite a lot.

From personal experience they do wear out quicker, although I must qualify that by saying that my disc braked bike gets used in the winter, my rim braked bike doesn't.

webboo · February 2018

I was curious because in ten years, I have replaced my brake blocks once on my winter bike.

veronese68 · February 2018

That mechanic talks a load of horseshit. A cheap disc wheel will flex allowing the rotor to rub the pads. Considering it is attached to the hub would the rim of a cheap wheel not move considerably more? Seems obvious to me. Not shooting the messsenger, interesting to hear the utter nonsense spouted.

naavt · February 2018

Pilot Pete wrote:

2. A. Evidence? I think it is generally accepted that disc brakes are better in the wet and jus5 because he says modulation is a ‘false question’, whatever that is, doesn’t make it true. You would be hard pushed to find many, even disc brake haters, who would argue that rim brakes are better in the wet.

That wasn't the question. He was trying to say (or the fault was mine for not explaining myself right), that modulation is AS GOOD on rim as on disc brakes.

Pilot Pete wrote:

3. If you buy a cheap bike with shoot wheels they'll flex. No surprises there then. :roll: So if you buy a cheap rim brake bike with crap calipers they won’t stop as well as Dura Ace. The point is?

The point here is that a cheap rim brake block is far apart from the rim (usually 1mm or more), than a rotor/pad combo. So if you use cheap components it's much easier for a pad/rotor combo to rub than a rim block combo.

Pilot Pete wrote:

4. Google showed £40 without discount for Ultegra Freeza Rotor. I can get 10% off that without trying. That’s £36. How often does he think someone needs to change their rotors? My winter bike is still on its original rotors after 6 winters. And they are only cheap Aztec rotors. Why does he think that Ultegra is mid range (as it is only one down from Dura Ace) and that anyone fitting discs needs to have Ultegra on a winter build? Much cheaper options out there, just like rim brake pads which range from a couple of quid up to £25ish for top end stuff which incidentally you’d have to replace far more often...

I can't argue with you on your last sentence from a personal point of view since I've never used discs. But let me tell you that friends who converted to discs replace rotors and pads more often than I do replaced blocks, and I ride with them so I'm not talking about very different mileages here.

Hell, I had to check with Amazon for my last purchased blocks just to see that I've bought them almost a year ago. My Strava is showing some 300kms/week average and I still have Plenty block life left.

Pilot Pete wrote:

5. (...)Changing pads is MUCH simpler and takes seconds. Changing rim brake pads and adjusting their position takes minutes, if you are replacing the inserts and not the whole thing it takes several minutes. I have been running hydro discs for over two years on my summer bike and the only maintenance I have had to do is change the pads a few times. If you have internal cable routing changing a brake cable is more of a faff than changing the fluid with a bleed. These jobs are only occasional jobs.

Again, I state that I can't argue with you, this time on your first sentence from a personal point of view since I've never used discs. But if you take several minutes changing rim inserts let me tell that you're doing something wrong, or your brand/calliper/whatever sort of system you use is somewhat complex.

I'm a Campag Record user and changing blocks is as easy as getting the wheel off, pick a screwdriver and lift the block retainer and pull the block with a plier. I can do that under a minute and I think that everybody with a pair of hands can do it in the same exact time.

I can't talk about discs though, but just looking at them I would think that replacing pads would take a bit longer than I do to replace blocks. But if you're telling me I'm wrong, well... I believe you, since I've never replaced pads on a disc system.

Pilot Pete wrote:

7. Depends what rim you are braking against as it will be different with carbon vs alloy rims whereas disc braking is consistent with either. But generally yes I’d agree. So what? This seems to be yet another argument to say they are not needed therefore people shouldn’t have them. Plenty of things aren’t needed but it is about choice.

You don’t need indexed STIs as downtube shifters we’re simple, reliable and worked. But why do all manufacturers fit STI type shifters these days? You don’t need 11spd cassettes, isn’t 5 enough as it is simpler and more robust? You don’t need drop handlebars, you don’t need wheels that weigh less than 2kg, you don’t need carbon fibre or titanium frames, you don’t need quick releases for wheels, you don’t need clipless pedals etc etc etc.

Nobody forces anyone to buy anything they don’t want. If you don’t want discs then don’t have discs but why is it that those who don’t want them feel they have to berate anyone who does want them by continually throwing the ‘they aren’t necessary’, ‘they’re a waste of money’, ‘they’re ugly’ arguments around? Live and let live. Everyone will be over it in a few years when they become the norm, just like clipless pedals, STI levers etc...PP

You understood me wrong. You never - NEVER - read something in my previous post where I've "berate anyone" for choosing discs over rim brakes. I believe that anyone should have the right of deciding what's best for him/herself and that's clearly not the point here.

You won't find any statement of mine trowing stones at the ones choosing discs over rim brakes either, so I'm not quite grabbing why you're being so frantic about "live and let live".

I will agree with one sentence of yours though. Probably (and I say probably), disc brakes are the future (as STI levers as you've mentioned), but that doesn't make me like them more than I do today, and I have that right. In the end, I was only answering the OP's first question, and that's what it's all about right?

On the other end, I remember all my friends telling me that vinyl records were over some 15 years ago. I didn't care so I went to buy vinyl records every time I felt I wanted some new music at home. Guess what. CDs are dead and vinyl is still spinning today. Nobody knows what the future will bring. Peace!

chippyk · February 2018

naavt wrote:

Pilot Pete wrote:

2. A. Evidence? I think it is generally accepted that disc brakes are better in the wet and jus5 because he says modulation is a ‘false question’, whatever that is, doesn’t make it true. You would be hard pushed to find many, even disc brake haters, who would argue that rim brakes are better in the wet.

That wasn't the question. He was trying to say (or the fault was mine for not explaining myself right), that modulation is AS GOOD on rim as on disc brakes.

Pilot Pete wrote:

3. If you buy a cheap bike with shoot wheels they'll flex. No surprises there then. :roll: So if you buy a cheap rim brake bike with crap calipers they won’t stop as well as Dura Ace. The point is?

The point here is that a cheap rim brake block is far apart from the rim (usually 1mm or more), than a rotor/pad combo. So if you use cheap components it's much easier for a pad/rotor combo to rub than a rim block combo.

Pilot Pete wrote:

4. Google showed £40 without discount for Ultegra Freeza Rotor. I can get 10% off that without trying. That’s £36. How often does he think someone needs to change their rotors? My winter bike is still on its original rotors after 6 winters. And they are only cheap Aztec rotors. Why does he think that Ultegra is mid range (as it is only one down from Dura Ace) and that anyone fitting discs needs to have Ultegra on a winter build? Much cheaper options out there, just like rim brake pads which range from a couple of quid up to £25ish for top end stuff which incidentally you’d have to replace far more often...

I can't argue with you on your last sentence from a personal point of view since I've never used discs. But let me tell you that friends who converted to discs replace rotors and pads more often than I do replaced blocks, and I ride with them so I'm not talking about very different mileages here.

Hell, I had to check with Amazon for my last purchased blocks just to see that I've bought them almost a year ago. My Strava is showing some 300kms/week average and I still have Plenty block life left.

Pilot Pete wrote:

5. (...)Changing pads is MUCH simpler and takes seconds. Changing rim brake pads and adjusting their position takes minutes, if you are replacing the inserts and not the whole thing it takes several minutes. I have been running hydro discs for over two years on my summer bike and the only maintenance I have had to do is change the pads a few times. If you have internal cable routing changing a brake cable is more of a faff than changing the fluid with a bleed. These jobs are only occasional jobs.

Again, I state that I can't argue with you, this time on your first sentence from a personal point of view since I've never used discs. But if you take several minutes changing rim inserts let me tell that you're doing something wrong, or your brand/calliper/whatever sort of system you use is somewhat complex.

I'm a Campag Record user and changing blocks is as easy as getting the wheel off, pick a screwdriver and lift the block retainer and pull the block with a plier. I can do that under a minute and I think that everybody with a pair of hands can do it in the same exact time.

I can't talk about discs though, but just looking at them I would think that replacing pads would take a bit longer than I do to replace blocks. But if you're telling me I'm wrong, well... I believe you, since I've never replaced pads on a disc system.

Pilot Pete wrote:

7. Depends what rim you are braking against as it will be different with carbon vs alloy rims whereas disc braking is consistent with either. But generally yes I’d agree. So what? This seems to be yet another argument to say they are not needed therefore people shouldn’t have them. Plenty of things aren’t needed but it is about choice.

You don’t need indexed STIs as downtube shifters we’re simple, reliable and worked. But why do all manufacturers fit STI type shifters these days? You don’t need 11spd cassettes, isn’t 5 enough as it is simpler and more robust? You don’t need drop handlebars, you don’t need wheels that weigh less than 2kg, you don’t need carbon fibre or titanium frames, you don’t need quick releases for wheels, you don’t need clipless pedals etc etc etc.

Nobody forces anyone to buy anything they don’t want. If you don’t want discs then don’t have discs but why is it that those who don’t want them feel they have to berate anyone who does want them by continually throwing the ‘they aren’t necessary’, ‘they’re a waste of money’, ‘they’re ugly’ arguments around? Live and let live. Everyone will be over it in a few years when they become the norm, just like clipless pedals, STI levers etc...PP

You understood me wrong. You never - NEVER - read something in my previous post where I've "berate anyone" for choosing discs over rim brakes. I believe that anyone should have the right of deciding what's best for him/herself and that's clearly not the point here.

You won't find any statement of mine trowing stones at the ones choosing discs over rim brakes either, so I'm not quite grabbing why you're being so frantic about "live and let live".

I will agree with one sentence of yours though. Probably (and I say probably), disc brakes are the future (as STI levers as you've mentioned), but that doesn't make me like them more than I do today, and I have that right. In the end, I was only answering the OP's first question, and that's what it's all about right?

On the other end, I remember all my friends telling me that vinyl records were over some 15 years ago. I didn't care so I went to buy vinyl records every time I felt I wanted some new music at home. Guess what. CDs are dead and vinyl is still spinning today. Nobody knows what the future will bring. Peace!

Bell end. If I want to buy discs or rim brakes I’ll do what I want regardless of what some knobber in you LBS says. Spunknugget.

frisbee · February 2018

No offence to local bike shop mechanics but they are local bike shop mechanics*.

* Obviously excluding the Wright brother in this generalisation.

yiannism · February 2018

Riding both road and MTB i would love to have disc brakes on my road even if i dont really need them in Cyprus. Why? much less effort to brake especially on those long descents that my hands are really getting tired with the rim brakes

PK1 · February 2018

Yes , braking on steep , bendy, narrow roads with gradients of 25% will make your hands ache on rim brakes.

DeVlaeminck · February 2018

PK1 wrote:

Yes , braking on steep , bendy, narrow roads with gradients of 25% will make your hands ache on rim brakes.

Doesn't make my hands ache, obviously there may notionally be some point at which it would but I've yet to find a descent where that is an issue. I do live in Derbyshire though maybe my hands have become conditioned or maybe I don't brake as much ?

rick_chasey · February 2018

PK1 wrote:

Yes , braking on steep , bendy, narrow roads with gradients of 25% will make your hands ache on rim brakes.

pilot_pete · February 2018

DeVlaeminck wrote:

PK1 wrote:

Yes , braking on steep , bendy, narrow roads with gradients of 25% will make your hands ache on rim brakes.

Doesn't make my hands ache, obviously there may notionally be some point at which it would but I've yet to find a descent where that is an issue. I do live in Derbyshire though maybe my hands have become conditioned or maybe I don't brake as much ?

That’s because none of the descents in the Peak District are long enough! Try the Apls or Pyrenees, they’re a different story.

Although having said that I tend to get a bit of forearm pump rather hand ache, due to my weenie arms!!!

PP

Disc or no disc?

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