Am I really so weak ?

SmittyBoy

I'm very new to indoor cycling (aka: spinning). Although I have cycled relatively long distances (150 km/day), I've never trained for cycling until this year (age 55).

My girlfriend and I recently did a 10 minute FTP test and my score was 211, hers was about 185. I weigh 74km, she weighs about 55 km. That makes her power to weight ration 3.3 w/kg; whereas mine is 2.85. She is a stronger cyclist, although we generally only notice it on the long hills.

This winter, for the first time ever, I am doing indoor cycling. My first experience in the "advanced" spin class was that I simply could not stay with the program. In order to match the RPM, I had to dial back the "tension", and so simply could not match the power ranges (zones) that I was supposed to be able to do.

How do I quickly build up the strength to be able to cycle "stronger" ?

fat daddy

SmittyBoy wrote:

My first experience in the "advanced" spin class was that I simply could not stay with the program.

How do I quickly build up the strength to be able to cycle "stronger" ?

err .. join the "intermediate" spin class ?

milemuncher1

SmittyBoy wrote:

I'm very new to indoor cycling (aka: spinning). Although I have cycled relatively long distances (150 km/day), I've never trained for cycling until this year (age 55).

My girlfriend and I recently did a 10 minute FTP test and my score was 211, hers was about 185. I weigh 74km, she weighs about 55 km. That makes her power to weight ration 3.3 w/kg; whereas mine is 2.85. She is a stronger cyclist, although we generally only notice it on the long hills.

This winter, for the first time ever, I am doing indoor cycling. My first experience in the "advanced" spin class was that I simply could not stay with the program. In order to match the RPM, I had to dial back the "tension", and so simply could not match the power ranges (zones) that I was supposed to be able to do.

How do I quickly build up the strength to be able to cycle "stronger" ?

Ride up long steep hills as quickly as you can, in the highest gear you can manage. Repeat until good.

thistle_

fat daddy wrote:

SmittyBoy wrote:

My first experience in the "advanced" spin class was that I simply could not stay with the program.

How do I quickly build up the strength to be able to cycle "stronger" ?

err .. join the "intermediate" spin class ?

+1
Or ease back on the resistance a bit until you've been doing it long enough that you can keep up.

fenix

Indoor cycling is different to what you've been doing. Drop down to the intermediate class and a few weeks of that should help you nicely given your long endurance background.

kingstongraham

SmittyBoy wrote:

This winter, for the first time ever, I am doing indoor cycling. My first experience in the "advanced" spin class was that I simply could not stay with the program. In order to match the RPM, I had to dial back the "tension", and so simply could not match the power ranges (zones) that I was supposed to be able to do.

Were the zones not based on the FTP you had measured?

SmittyBoy

The indoor cycles have a fairly modern display gadget attached that, when powered up, asks for FTP as well as other vital statistics. While cycling, it changes color depending upon which zone you're in, also display various status info, including what amounts to a meter showing where within the zone one is currently riding.

The problem I was having, better explained:

We would be in "zone 1" (1->5) and at an RPM of 76. Then the instructor would indicate to advance the resistance until zone 2 while maintaining RPM at 76. I could usually stay within zone 2, but, then when advanced again to zone 3, or again to zone 4, or 5, I simply would not be able to maintain that RPM. Either I had to rotate faster, or reduce the tension. Usually the latter.

Another probablem was maintaining the correct RPM while standing up. At one point we were rotating at about 95 (this was all somehow connected to the rhythm in a song and I really have bad rhythm), in zone 3, and then told to stand up. There was simply no way I could do 95 RPM standing up. Yet, very annoyingly, my girlfriend managed it all with out too much trouble. Granted she has been going to spin classes for years, so, maybe is just more used to the whole thing. I found it absolutely shattering, and was a soggy mess at the end of the hour.

Don't get me wrong, it was great, I enjoyed it. I just want to get better as quickly as possible, so that I don't feel so inferior.

dannbodge

Correct me if I'm wrong but to get FTP I thought you had to do 20mins as 10mins is too close to VO2 max to use as FTP?

Matthewfalle

fat daddy wrote:

SmittyBoy wrote:

My first experience in the "advanced" spin class was that I simply could not stay with the program.

How do I quickly build up the strength to be able to cycle "stronger" ?

err .. join the "intermediate" spin class ?

this. unfortunately at the moment your ego is writing cheques your body can't cash and you were well and truly chicked.

milemuncher1

It’s all about the 4DP now, FTP is sooooooo last year.

fenix

SmittyBoy wrote:

We would be in "zone 1" (1->5) and at an RPM of 76. Then the instructor would indicate to advance the resistance until zone 2 while maintaining RPM at 76. I could usually stay within zone 2, but, then when advanced again to zone 3, or again to zone 4, or 5, I simply would not be able to maintain that RPM. Either I had to rotate faster, or reduce the tension. Usually the latter.

Another probablem was maintaining the correct RPM while standing up. At one point we were rotating at about 95 (this was all somehow connected to the rhythm in a song and I really have bad rhythm), in zone 3, and then told to stand up. There was simply no way I could do 95 RPM standing up. Yet, very annoyingly, my girlfriend managed it all with out too much trouble. Granted she has been going to spin classes for years, so, maybe is just more used to the whole thing. I found it absolutely shattering, and was a soggy mess at the end of the hour.

Don't get me wrong, it was great, I enjoyed it. I just want to get better as quickly as possible, so that I don't feel so inferior.

So you can stay in the zone - (power zone rather than HR Zone ?) but the cadence doesn't always suit you ? I'd not worry too much about that - in my experience resistance can vary from one bike to the next.

I'd struggle doing 95 on the pedals too - when would you do that on a real bike ? Your GF can do it because she's used to it.

There are no shortcuts I'm afraid - but keep going and you will improve. They're like a hard interval session on the turbo rather than the bike rides you're used to.

SmittyBoy

Day two of the advanced cycling yesterday - I got along a little better. Also, I discovered that my "zones" are apparently extremely small.

For example, with RPM at 65, attempting to stay within zone 3 I had maybe +- 2 or 3 tension levels, say, between 40-45 (out of 100 I guess) before I would either exceed or drop out of zone 3. Similarly, while in zone 3 at a constant rpm and tension, I could adjust the rpm by maybe 5 or 6 rpm, and be out of zone 3 again.

I'm guessing this has something to do with my age (54), and my relatively low FTP of 211. How are the zones calculated when FTP is known ?

milemuncher1

SmittyBoy wrote:

How are the zones calculated when FTP is known ?

They are set as various percentages of the known FTP, for a given duration.

fenix

Age has nothing to do with it.

milemuncher1

Fenix wrote:

Age has nothing to do with it.

It hasn’t got as much to do with it as some people naturally assume, but when a man reaches his forties, muscle mass decreases year on year, and unless you do something with pharmaceuticals and specific training to slow / stop it, a forty something athlete with everything else that’s important, exactly that of a younger athlete, will not be able to generate the same power, assuming everything else is done identically.

diy

I only skimmed the thread, but was 211 your actual 10min score or was it your adjusted proper full FTP? If it was the full FTP its not at all bad for a first attempt.

A lot of spinning is about technique and setting your bike up right. I'm assuming you are using SPD shoes?
Also sooo many people cheat, particularly on bikes which can show data.

burnthesheep

Grinding a power away a 70ish rpm isn't going to be the same as spinning the same power at 90-100 rpm.

Not sure what kind of classes these are, but there's a time and place for grinding out 70rpm and it isn't very often in the real world. And standing at 95 rpm? Sounds more like a workout on one of those Nordic elipticlimb run/ski thingabobs than a cycling specific workout move. This isn't very applicable to the cycling outdoors. Not everyone is Froome, but not many people are climbing the strong cogs at 60-70 RPM anymore.

To get an idea of what I'm talking about, scroll through a few minutes of the GCN Show workout videos. See how they structure the workout sessions, there is a short intro at the beginning of each video that will explain it.

diy

Yep, I have to agree, but to be fair to some of the instructors, the exercise goals of some spinning classes are not to improve your cycling ability. That is not to say there aren't some (actually a lot) of totally clueless spinning instructors out there with all sorts of crazy ideas.
- the aim of big heavy gears in a spin class is to build leg muscle and increase power - not watts/endurance, but pure muscle fibre strength. Since most cyclists focus on mid/longer distance rides and races, this is alien.
- high rpm out of the saddle, the aim here is to improve core strength and increase calorie consumption.
- rapidly changing work efforts (e.g. 10 seconds power climbs, 20 seconds sprinting) etc. is about pre-fatiguing to improve muscle fibre development.. Again not much use to a roadie.

lochindaal

I'm making some assumptions that you use the same bikes we do for our club sessions based on what you described....

Your FTP is worked out from a ramp test where you increase every 4mins not a 20min test?

On the display it tells you the percentage of FTP(it calls it FTW).

In Zone 1 you go to <55% so fairly easy. Zone 5 is >105% so not easy depending on how long you are in this zone for. Z3 and Z4 swap over at 90% so depending on where you are in the range of the zones could also be tough depending on time.

When standing up after cycling at 90rpm without changing the resistance my cadence will typically drop to about 75rpm. If I tried to go to 95rpm without increasing the resistance my cycling form would be a mess.

I think you have to consider a spin class has little to do with real world cycling but is a fitness class where people want to sweat a lot.

milemuncher1

Spinning was originally devised by a Cycle racer called Johnny Goldberg, in the mid 1980s, because he got hit by a car, whilst training for a race. The current thing referred to as ‘spinning’ seems to be more about generating money, than cycle training, most of the time. That’s a bit of a generalisation, but it has devolved rather than evolved in my opinion.

cougie

Spinning is specific to Johnny G - a gym can't advertise spin unless it's those classes. It's the public that call it spinning when it isn't.

Spinning classes are good for cycling. Other classes well it depends on the teacher. A lot seem to be aerobics on bikes. Avoid those.

milemuncher1

cougie wrote:

Spinning is specific to Johnny G - a gym can't advertise spin unless it's those classes. It's the public that call it spinning when it isn't.

Spinning classes are good for cycling. Other classes well it depends on the teacher. A lot seem to be aerobics on bikes. Avoid those.

Quite right, ‘Spinning’ is a registered trade mark.

diy

I've done various forms of Indoor cycle training, Spinning, RPM, Sprint etc.. they are all much of a muchness and its rare to find an instructor who has any real cycling ability. Whether MadDogg Athletics inc could still enforce their trademark in the (EU at least) is very questionable as last time they tried as far as I recall, it resulted in their trademark getting cancelled, though they may still be appealing.

cougie wrote:

It's the public that call it spinning when it isn't.

People openly refer to indoor cycle classes as spin or spinning and that is the whole issue the trademark owner has. IMO it is generic now, particularly given the wide use of the trademark without action from the owner. Either way, nothing in this thread infringes any trademarks. Eventually I think it will be like Pilates, which I think had a much stronger case than spinning.