Alpe d'Huez Beginner

milemuncher1

Mercia Man wrote:

I think you are onto something there, Brakeless. As well as claiming to have ridden it in 92 or 94 on an 11 speed 11-32 cassette, MM says he was using a 50/34 compact chainset. They didn’t appear until the mid 2000s. I know because I was one of the early adopters, buying a compact to ride the Maratona in 2007.

That’s just my age showing, it was friction shifters, clanger up front, and 7 speeds, on a steel Peugeot back then.

milemuncher1

Fenix wrote:

If you've done the Alpe then you'd have no fear of climbing British hills.....

The British road engineers tend to just stick the roads straight up the middle, the Continentals put more than one corner in.

Brakeless

Milemuncher1 wrote:

Mercia Man wrote:

I think you are onto something there, Brakeless. As well as claiming to have ridden it in 92 or 94 on an 11 speed 11-32 cassette, MM says he was using a 50/34 compact chainset. They didn’t appear until the mid 2000s. I know because I was one of the early adopters, buying a compact to ride the Maratona in 2007.

That’s just my age showing, it was friction shifters, clanger up front, and 7 speeds, on a steel Peugeot back then.

Ever heard of 'stop digging'?

harry-s

I'd suggest that most British lanes have nothing to do with engineers, but are simply tracks that have evolved over the years.
It's difficult to compare steep British or Flandrian climbs with alpine ones IMO, it's not really like for like. If someone was to ask me what would involve the most effort, Whitedown or ADH, it would be ADH every time. ADH would be a steady effort of an hour or more, whereas Whitedown (and similar) is only a few minutes. Ok, on Whitedown you've got to dig in on a couple of hairpins, but some of the ADH hairpins are also steep, and there's more of them.
I'd agree with Fenix, once you've got some of the Alpine climbs under your belt, then you'll definitely feel more confident tackling British ones, even if it's just a psychological head start, it's worth having.
Chapeau to the OP, for someone who probably doesn't consider himself a cyclist, turning up with a bargain basement bike and tackling ADH is a pretty good call.

kingstongraham

Milemuncher1 wrote:

Svetty wrote:

Fenix wrote:

If you've done the Alpe then you'd have no fear of climbing British hills.....

Not necessarily - the Alpe just requires you to sit there for an hour and a bit putting out 180W or so. Doing Hardknott, Rosedale, Trooper Lane etc is waaay harder

Very true. Even the sharp bits of White Down Lane are worse than doing the Alp. Simply because of the evil inclines on the corners. Give me a ( mostly steady ) 13 - 14 Kms than a ‘steppy’ bastard like the Hardknott, Leith, staples, or White Down, any day.

Staples Lane harder than Alpe D'Huez. Alpe D'Huez not being "steppy". Brilliant work.

svetty

KingstonGraham wrote:

Staples Lane harder than Alpe D'Huez. Alpe D'Huez not being "steppy". Brilliant work.

I'm in sympathy with doubts over the veracity of certain claims made by others but tbf L'Alpe isn't 'steppy' it's just a steady climb zig-zagging up the hillside. I have to say it's one of my least favourite climbs in the region being on a wide and rather busy road, there are much nicer climbs locally and much harder ones e.g. the Col du Sabot beyond Vaujany is a gem.

milemuncher1

KingstonGraham wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

Svetty wrote:

Fenix wrote:

If you've done the Alpe then you'd have no fear of climbing British hills.....

Not necessarily - the Alpe just requires you to sit there for an hour and a bit putting out 180W or so. Doing Hardknott, Rosedale, Trooper Lane etc is waaay harder

Very true. Even the sharp bits of White Down Lane are worse than doing the Alp. Simply because of the evil inclines on the corners. Give me a ( mostly steady ) 13 - 14 Kms than a ‘steppy’ bastard like the Hardknott, Leith, staples, or White Down, any day.

Staples Lane harder than Alpe D'Huez. Alpe D'Huez not being "steppy". Brilliant work.

Again, each to their own. I prefer ADH, because although it goes on and on, it’s not as harsh feeling, and it’s easier to get into a rhythm and keep it. In my opinion the climbs I’ve done over here are just far nastier, but again YMMV, I don’t care. It’s probably more psychological in nature, but I hate some of the hills over here with a passion, I’d quite relish another trip up ADH. And as I’ve said, anyone who doubts me, just come along on one of my ( numerous) rides, that I lay on. Hell, I’ve even been given Mole Valley, and London, as ‘patches’ now. It’s either put up, or STFU. I’m easy either way. Of course, you need to actually own a bike, and actually ride it, which will most likely filter out the majority of the troll posters.

milemuncher1

Svetty wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Staples Lane harder than Alpe D'Huez. Alpe D'Huez not being "steppy". Brilliant work.

I'm in sympathy with doubts over the veracity of certain claims made by others but tbf L'Alpe isn't 'steppy' it's just a steady climb zig-zagging up the hillside. I have to say it's one of my least favourite climbs in the region being on a wide and rather busy road, there are much nicer climbs locally and much harder ones e.g. the Col du Sabot beyond Vaujany is a gem.

Exactly right.

bendertherobot

The Col de Sabot is very nice, of course, it just stops, forcing you to come back and have a pint in Stief's bar. Which is fine.

surfercyclist

FFS. Claims it was ridden using 50/34, 11-32 then suddenly remembers it was a 7 speed steel Peugot? WTF, are we dealing with Walter Mitty or an Alzeimers case here?

DeVlaeminck

Just be careful coming back down, it's a very fast descent interspersed with lots of hairpins perfect for putting heat into your rims and blowing your inner tubes if you drag your brakes.

Brakeless

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Just be careful coming back down, it's a very fast descent interspersed with lots of hairpins perfect for putting heat into your rims and blowing your inner tubes if you drag your brakes.

It was fine for Milemuncher. He had disc brakes in 1992.

milemuncher1

SurferCyclist wrote:

FFS. Claims it was ridden using 50/34, 11-32 then suddenly remembers it was a 7 speed steel Peugot? WTF, are we dealing with Walter Mitty or an Alzeimers case here?

I’ve got big holes in my brain, I’m easily confused, but nothing to do with Alzheimer’s.

milemuncher1

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Just be careful coming back down, it's a very fast descent interspersed with lots of hairpins perfect for putting heat into your rims and blowing your inner tubes if you drag your brakes.

Very true, the old ‘Sportive choppers’ fizz bang. Always good for a laugh.

cougie

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Just be careful coming back down, it's a very fast descent interspersed with lots of hairpins perfect for putting heat into your rims and blowing your inner tubes if you drag your brakes.

True that. I blew my front tyre descending in traffic after the tour one year. Thank god it was one of the few corners with a runoff. I don't use that high a pressure now.

kingstongraham

Svetty wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Staples Lane harder than Alpe D'Huez. Alpe D'Huez not being "steppy". Brilliant work.

I'm in sympathy with doubts over the veracity of certain claims made by others but tbf L'Alpe isn't 'steppy' it's just a steady climb zig-zagging up the hillside. I have to say it's one of my least favourite climbs in the region being on a wide and rather busy road, there are much nicer climbs locally and much harder ones e.g. the Col du Sabot beyond Vaujany is a gem.

I meant the hairpins are all pretty flat in the turns then pretty steep up the straight bits. You need to change gear (or get a bit of rest) in every hairpin. It's true that there are no sustained flatter sections to make the average gradient feel unrepresentative.

Having done both, I still stand by my assertion it is harder than Staples Lane though.

harry-s

Milemuncher1 wrote:

Svetty wrote:

Fenix wrote:

If you've done the Alpe then you'd have no fear of climbing British hills.....

Not necessarily - the Alpe just requires you to sit there for an hour and a bit putting out 180W or so. Doing Hardknott, Rosedale, Trooper Lane etc is waaay harder

Very true. Even the sharp bits of White Down Lane are worse than doing the Alp. Simply because of the evil inclines on the corners. Give me a ( mostly steady ) 13 - 14 Kms than a ‘steppy’ bastard like the Hardknott, Leith, staples, or White Down, any day.

I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same Staples Lane here, but I'm beginning to have my doubts...
OP, don't get lulled into any sort of complacency, ADH is a tough HC climb, Staples is a small hill.
The stats (from veloviewer) go something like this:

Distance: Staples 2.5km, ADH 14.4km
Elevation gain: Staples 100m, ADH. 1127m
Average grade: Staples 4%, ADH 7.8%
Max grade: Staples 13.5%, ADH 19.3%

drlodge

Milemuncher1 wrote:

Give me a ( mostly steady ) 13 - 14 Kms than a ‘steppy’ bastard like the Hardknott, Leith, staples, or White Down, any day.

Apples and oranges. Depends how steep the steady 13-14 Kms is. A Steady 10% will have most of us struggling, heck the climb up Mont Ventoux is steady but is probably as steep as most of Staple Lane!! Hardknott is in a different league to the rest of those "climbs". Leith and Staple Lane are pretty easy, White down is steeper while the hardest climb down south is Barhatch.

mrb123

Harry-S wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

Svetty wrote:

Fenix wrote:

If you've done the Alpe then you'd have no fear of climbing British hills.....

Not necessarily - the Alpe just requires you to sit there for an hour and a bit putting out 180W or so. Doing Hardknott, Rosedale, Trooper Lane etc is waaay harder

Very true. Even the sharp bits of White Down Lane are worse than doing the Alp. Simply because of the evil inclines on the corners. Give me a ( mostly steady ) 13 - 14 Kms than a ‘steppy’ bastard like the Hardknott, Leith, staples, or White Down, any day.

I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same Staples Lane here, but I'm beginning to have my doubts...
OP, don't get lulled into any sort of complacency, ADH is a tough HC climb, Staples is a small hill.
The stats (from veloviewer) go something like this:

Distance: Staples 2.5km, ADH 14.4km
Elevation gain: Staples 100m, ADH. 1127m
Average grade: Staples 4%, ADH 7.8%
Max grade: Staples 13.5%, ADH 19.3%

Can't say I ever encountered anything approaching 19.3% on Alpe D'Huez.

cougie

Guess it depends how they've measured the hairpins ? If you take the inside line I can totally see it.

svetty

cougie wrote:

Guess it depends how they've measured the hairpins ? If you take the inside line I can totally see it.

I'd doubt that even the tightest hairpins on ADH reaches this TBH - they are reasonably flat and wide. OK, maybe for a metre or so at the very apex but even then 15% is more realistic.

mrb123

Svetty wrote:

cougie wrote:

Guess it depends how they've measured the hairpins ? If you take the inside line I can totally see it.

I'd doubt that even the tightest hairpins on ADH reaches this TBH - they are reasonably flat and wide. OK, maybe for a metre or so at the very apex but even then 15% is more realistic.

Yeah, in my experience the gradient actually flattens off a bit through the hairpins as they are so well built although I concede they might be a bit steeper at the very inside.

lettingthedaysgoby

MrB123 wrote:

Harry-S wrote:

Can't say I ever encountered anything approaching 19.3% on Alpe D'Huez.

Inside of a hairpin maybe?

DeVlaeminck

Google suggests average 8.1, steepest 11.5, sounds ball park right to me, as above the hairpins are fairly flat and an opportunity to grab a few seconds recovery.

bendertherobot

Google is fairly correct but, in real life, these things do vary. There are parts on the hairpins which are steeper, and some very short bits which exceed 15%, even if that's in mere metres.

kingstongraham

If you look at the individual stones within the tarmac, one of them must be at a 19% slope.

drhaggis

All of this 15%, 19%, the ramp goes up to 11 is academic. Alpe d'Huez isn't an HC climb because somewhere there is a 19% ramp. It's HC because it sustains over 8% for 13 km. Because only the best pros climb it in under 40m, and that's at threshold. At 3 W/kg, it's still roughly 1h 10m. If your FTP is less, be prepared to suffer for a very, very long time.

Have I climbed it or any of the tough climbs in Britain? No. Having said that, you'll have to be very persuasive to convince me there's a single paved climb in britain as tough as Alpe d'Huez.

svetty

DrHaggis wrote:

Have I climbed it or any of the tough climbs in Britain? No. Having said that, you'll have to be very persuasive to convince me there's a single paved climb in britain as tough as Alpe d'Huez.

I have climbed ADH several times and yes there are tougher climbs in the UK - depending how you define 'tough' of course. Any reasonable cyclist can ride ADH - albeit that they might take a while, however many cyclists will struggle or fail on the steep ones I mentioned in my first posting in this thread and there are other climbs along the same lines - brutally steep with poor surfaces. Gibb Lane, Caper Hill, Mytholm Steeps for example.

mrb123

DrHaggis wrote:

All of this 15%, 19%, the ramp goes up to 11 is academic. Alpe d'Huez isn't an HC climb because somewhere there is a 19% ramp. It's HC because it sustains over 8% for 13 km. Because only the best pros climb it in under 40m, and that's at threshold. At 3 W/kg, it's still roughly 1h 10m. If your FTP is less, be prepared to suffer for a very, very long time.

Have I climbed it or any of the tough climbs in Britain? No. Having said that, you'll have to be very persuasive to convince me there's a single paved climb in britain as tough as Alpe d'Huez.

The Alpe is fairly steep compared to some Alpine stuff, but with a 32 on the back you'll always be able to stay in the saddle and spin up. How much it hurts is really only dependant on how much you push on, assuming you're fairly fit to start with.

Hardknott on the other hand will always terrify me and repeated visits have done nothing to diminish that feeling of butterflies/nausea in the pit of my stomach as I ride up Eskdale knowing what is to come. There is no way to take that climb easy on a road bike and at some point you will feel like your heart and lungs are about to explode. The agony is relatively short lived I accept, but then even the descent is a deeply unpleasant experience.

I dread to think what something like the Angliru must be like - Lake District style gradients but going on for kilometre after kilometre.

bigmat

Sounds like the OP is sorted with very kind offer of a free compact. I'm guessing his current chainset is 53/39 rather than 52/39, although the 39 is the important bit going uphill. Would make climbing difficult without a very large cog at the back. With a compact, I think people are getting a bit carried away about quite how big the rear gearing needs to be. I rode d'Huez on a 34/25 and found it pretty comfortable. That was at the end of the Marmotte and I came in under the hour mark (just). Also did it the night before slightly quicker, but not much as was trying to save my legs a bit. The last time I rode in the Alps I had an 11-23 on the back and that was fine as well. Obviously a lot depends on fitness, weight (I'm over 80kg so no lightweight) and perhaps most importantly heat. The day I rode the Marmotte it was a pretty pleasant 30C with a tailwind most of the day. Have ridden in the Alps at close to 40C and it makes everything a lot harder! Not convinced a 30+ cog really necessary with a compact though.