How does one buy a company? GONE in 60 seconds

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Pull yourself together! What you present as fact are just assumptions. See it as an opportunity and take the chance to impress the new owner. Alternative way of owning the problem is to start the hunt for another job.

I'm very much pulled together thank you. The job hunt and interview processes are already in the pipeline. I've no interest in impressing the new owners, their reputation is poor and if I'm out in the field representing them, then my reputation is damaged. So early exit.

Early exit is probably what they want, saves them the severance cost.

SC is right, you are assuming too much and being too pessimistic. With an attitude like that you could be a prolific contributor to your own Brexit thread

I have colleagues that have worked for them. They don't have anything good to say about them. One of my current colleagues left them to join my 'old' current firm. He is distraught as he knows what they're like to work for. He says it's the worst possible outcome.

A

I will not name and shame until I'm gone.

Youve already assumed above that you are out of a job so I rest my case about assumption and pessimism.

Then advice above is sensible - get some options and alternatives warmed up and see what happens at the current place.

As he was moaning about the remuneration packages at his current employer the staff there will look cheap to the new owner. By putting a bit of effort in for the next six months you could get significant advancement in the new organisation.

Or do the bare minimum and moan all day long

mr_goo

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Pull yourself together! What you present as fact are just assumptions. See it as an opportunity and take the chance to impress the new owner. Alternative way of owning the problem is to start the hunt for another job.

I'm very much pulled together thank you. The job hunt and interview processes are already in the pipeline. I've no interest in impressing the new owners, their reputation is poor and if I'm out in the field representing them, then my reputation is damaged. So early exit.

Early exit is probably what they want, saves them the severance cost.

SC is right, you are assuming too much and being too pessimistic. With an attitude like that you could be a prolific contributor to your own Brexit thread

I have colleagues that have worked for them. They don't have anything good to say about them. One of my current colleagues left them to join my 'old' current firm. He is distraught as he knows what they're like to work for. He says it's the worst possible outcome.

A

I will not name and shame until I'm gone.

Youve already assumed above that you are out of a job so I rest my case about assumption and pessimism.

Then advice above is sensible - get some options and alternatives warmed up and see what happens at the current place.

As he was moaning about the remuneration packages at his current employer the staff there will look cheap to the new owner. By putting a bit of effort in for the next six months you could get significant advancement in the new organisation.

Or do the bare minimum and moan all day long

There's millions of us out here Surrey Comm that like to do a decent days work and keep our heads down. Yes we may complain about our lot. Who doesn't. But when you work for a small successful company and thrown into a tank full of sharks its not nice. I feel desperately sorry for my office and factory based colleagues. They are just ordinary jobbing office workers and semi skilled factory people in a very provincial town. Not in high demand. Their nearest place for job opportunities is 30 to 40 minutes away. Might not seem much to you on a high paid city salary. But when you're low paid it might as well be 30 to 40 hours away as it's not a financially sustainable option. They could of course all go and work in the minimarket or eateries and drinkeeries that take up all the other employment opportunities in the area.

Stevo_666

Mr Goo wrote:

There's millions of us out here Surrey Comm that like to do a decent days work and keep our heads down. Yes we may complain about our lot. Who doesn't. But when you work for a small successful company and thrown into a tank full of sharks its not nice. I feel desperately sorry for my office and factory based colleagues. They are just ordinary jobbing office workers and semi skilled factory people in a very provincial town. Not in high demand. Their nearest place for job opportunities is 30 to 40 minutes away. Might not seem much to you on a high paid city salary. But when you're low paid it might as well be 30 to 40 hours away as it's not a financially sustainable option. They could have course all go and work in the minimarket or eateries and drinkeeries that take up all the other employment opportunities in the area.

Goo, you seem to be assuming that all or most of the staff are going to be kicked out. Do you have any evidence for that? (Not liking them is not evidence btw). It makes no logical sense for a company to buy another one to effectively shut down what they have just bought.

surrey_commuter

Mr Goo wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Pull yourself together! What you present as fact are just assumptions. See it as an opportunity and take the chance to impress the new owner. Alternative way of owning the problem is to start the hunt for another job.

I'm very much pulled together thank you. The job hunt and interview processes are already in the pipeline. I've no interest in impressing the new owners, their reputation is poor and if I'm out in the field representing them, then my reputation is damaged. So early exit.

Early exit is probably what they want, saves them the severance cost.

SC is right, you are assuming too much and being too pessimistic. With an attitude like that you could be a prolific contributor to your own Brexit thread

I have colleagues that have worked for them. They don't have anything good to say about them. One of my current colleagues left them to join my 'old' current firm. He is distraught as he knows what they're like to work for. He says it's the worst possible outcome.

A

I will not name and shame until I'm gone.

Youve already assumed above that you are out of a job so I rest my case about assumption and pessimism.

Then advice above is sensible - get some options and alternatives warmed up and see what happens at the current place.

As he was moaning about the remuneration packages at his current employer the staff there will look cheap to the new owner. By putting a bit of effort in for the next six months you could get significant advancement in the new organisation.

Or do the bare minimum and moan all day long

There's millions of us out here Surrey Comm that like to do a decent days work and keep our heads down. Yes we may complain about our lot. Who doesn't. But when you work for a small successful company and thrown into a tank full of sharks its not nice. I feel desperately sorry for my office and factory based colleagues. They are just ordinary jobbing office workers and semi skilled factory people in a very provincial town. Not in high demand. Their nearest place for job opportunities is 30 to 40 minutes away. Might not seem much to you on a high paid city salary. But when you're low paid it might as well be 30 to 40 hours away as it's not a financially sustainable option. They could have course all go and work in the minimarket or eateries and drinkeeries that take up all the other employment opportunities in the area.

You are not reading what I am saying. You should stop assuming the worst and presumably moaning and sulking your way through your working day.

From what you have told us this company has bought a badly run, highly profitable business with badly underpaid staff.

Why would they close it down or replace the cheap labour with their own better paid?

See it as a clean slate and chance to impress the new bosses.

slowmart

:[/quote]

I have colleagues that have worked for them. They don't have anything good to say about them. One of my current colleagues left them to join my 'old' current firm. He is distraught as he knows what they're like to work for. He says it's the worst possible outcome.

e.[/quote]


I would suggest to take a step back and evaluate the situation yourself. Looking through the lense of ex workers of the company in question and their narrative would be rated interesting if true at best.

Its the equivilant of using a Facebook landing page where customers have had a bad experience to gained informed insight into a product.

Stevo_666

Goo, are you seeing a pattern emerging in the advice you are being given here?

mamba80

Goo, look, SC and Stev0 are correct, find out for yourself what they are like, its easy to dragged into a spiral of negativity.

I ve been through numerous (5) tupe txfer's and if i listened to all the cr@p flying about, i d have gone mad with worry.

go with the flow and be positive, it may or may not work out but the only person suffering by worrying and moaning is you.

surrey_commuter

mamba80 wrote:

Goo, look, SC and Stev0 are correct, find out for yourself what they are like, its easy to dragged into a spiral of negativity.

I ve been through numerous (5) tupe txfer's and if i listened to all the cr@p flying about, i d have gone mad with worry.

go with the flow and be positive, it may or may not work out but the only person suffering by worrying and moaning is you.

Buggeration - me agreeing with Steveo and Mamba joining us. I feel totally discombobulated so will push off and laugh at Coopster

mr_goo

Look. I understand that you are trying to give sage advice, and I thank you for that. However the purchase makes absolutely no sense. This new owner already makes the same products as we do. Albeit, inferior. They are high volume, low profit margin operators. We are low volume, high profit. Within the industry and their ex employees it has already been met with surprise as it is not at logical fit. My personal view is that they are in it for the intellectual property rights of our products.
Any how chaps. Thanks.

pblakeney

Mr Goo wrote:

Look. I understand that you are trying to give sage advice, and I thank you for that. However the purchase makes absolutely no sense. This new owner already makes the same products as we do. Albeit, inferior. They are high volume, low profit margin operators. We are low volume, high profit. Within the industry and their ex employees it has already been met with surprise as it is not at logical fit. My personal view is that they are in it for the intellectual property rights of our products.
Any how chaps. Thanks.

Been there, done that, in similar circumstances. Chances are that your assessment is correct from what you say. Just pray that you are not one of the unfortunates kept on. I was lucky and got immediate redundancy as a volunteer. I listened to those kept on bleating for at least 2 years before the inevitable. Good luck whatever happens.

slowmart

Mr Goo wrote:

Look. I understand that you are trying to give sage advice, and I thank you for that. However the purchase makes absolutely no sense. This new owner already makes the same products as we do. Albeit, inferior. They are high volume, low profit margin operators. We are low volume, high profit. Within the industry and their ex employees it has already been met with surprise as it is not at logical fit. My personal view is that they are in it for the intellectual property rights of our products.
Any how chaps. Thanks.

Which expands their product line and customer base, increases and diversifies their revenue stream while presenting the opportunity to take out duplicate costs across the combined business.

Make no mistake with the narrow view you are taking, the people concerned would have done their research, extensive modelling, risk analysis and mitigation. Then negotiated and funded the purchase. Unless all those factors stacked up its highly unlikely any funding from external sources would have been accessed.



Makes perfect commercial sense to me.

Stevo_666

Slowmart wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Look. I understand that you are trying to give sage advice, and I thank you for that. However the purchase makes absolutely no sense. This new owner already makes the same products as we do. Albeit, inferior. They are high volume, low profit margin operators. We are low volume, high profit. Within the industry and their ex employees it has already been met with surprise as it is not at logical fit. My personal view is that they are in it for the intellectual property rights of our products.
Any how chaps. Thanks.

Which expands their product line and customer base, increases and diversifies their revenue stream while presenting the opportunity to take out duplicate costs across the combined business.

Make no mistake with the narrow view you are taking, the people concerned would have done their research, extensive modelling, risk analysis and mitigation. Then negotiated and funded the purchase. Unless all those factors stacked up its highly unlikely any funding from external sources would have been accessed.



Makes perfect commercial sense to me.

I agree.

Also, Goo, you stated earlier that the buying group was struggling and relatively unprofitable and have just managed to buy a company with better margins for what you consider to be a low price. Now we could probably argue the toss on value for money if we had more info; but taken at face value, the deal also makes financial sense for the acquirer.

And btw, good luck whatever happens.

I've now managed to agree with SC, mamba and Slowmart on the same thread so I'm going to lie down for a bit

Ben6899

And I second Stevo. I'm feeling terribly dizzy.

FishFish

Hope they fire you for stealing pens and you end up in prison for ever.

surrey_commuter

FishFish wrote:

Hope they fire you for stealing pens and you end up in prison for ever.

Do we know he is a pen thief?

I was once threatened by a particularly irate copper with prosecution for stealing a pen - from ladbrokes

mouth

For me you've got three viable options/outcomes here:

1. Leave early and find something else to sell.

2. Stay put, sit in your corner moaning and being a pessimist, and get made redundant anyway.

3. Get some drive or motivation, try and show what you're capable of, maybe earn yourself a promotion or something. Cream rises to the top you know, or maybe more in your case sh** floats.

The whole thing about ex employees not liking their practices etc is horses for courses. If you and I went to a restaurant and ordered the same dish, despite it being a perfectly acceptable meal one of us would like it and the other wouldn't. As an example, myself and about 830 of my colleagues do exactly the same thing, with lengths of service varying from a few months to upwards of 40 years. Some love, some hate.

For me it's all about option 3, unless a real peach of an opportunity comes your way in the meantime.

Stevo_666

Mouth wrote:

For me you've got three viable options/outcomes here:

1. Leave early and find something else to sell.

2. Stay put, sit in your corner moaning and being a pessimist, and get made redundant anyway.

3. Get some drive or motivation, try and show what you're capable of, maybe earn yourself a promotion or something. Cream rises to the top you know, or maybe more in your case sh** floats.

The whole thing about ex employees not liking their practices etc is horses for courses. If you and I went to a restaurant and ordered the same dish, despite it being a perfectly acceptable meal one of us would like it and the other wouldn't. As an example, myself and about 830 of my colleagues do exactly the same thing, with lengths of service varying from a few months to upwards of 40 years. Some love, some hate.

For me it's all about option 3, unless a real peach of an opportunity comes your way in the meantime.

Mouth, just want to say that I like your sig. How relevant it is to this thread

Pituophis

PBlakeney wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Look. I understand that you are trying to give sage advice, and I thank you for that. However the purchase makes absolutely no sense. This new owner already makes the same products as we do. Albeit, inferior. They are high volume, low profit margin operators. We are low volume, high profit. Within the industry and their ex employees it has already been met with surprise as it is not at logical fit. My personal view is that they are in it for the intellectual property rights of our products.
Any how chaps. Thanks.

Been there, done that, in similar circumstances. Chances are that your assessment is correct from what you say. Just pray that you are not one of the unfortunates kept on. I was lucky and got immediate redundancy as a volunteer. I listened to those kept on bleating for at least 2 years before the inevitable. Good luck whatever happens.

My company (British, market leading, expensive, top of the range kit) was taken over by another, larger company that made vastly inferior products in the same line.
The first thing they did was re brand their own products with our name.
Then they quickly fased out our products, sending their own to us for testing only, so they could justify using our name on them. (Still awful quality though, helping to sour our reputation.)
At the end of this month, the second set of redundancies will take place.
This week they finally announce to the "world" that we are full partners.
They have already told us that there will be no production or development carried out in the UK, so those of us left should expect our site to shut before the end of the year. As we will have nothing to do, I suspect it may come a bit quicker than than!

Still, my small redundancy payment will pay off what is left of my very small mortgage, so I'm sitting it out 'till then.

mouth

Stevo 666 wrote:

Mouth wrote:

For me you've got three viable options/outcomes here:

1. Leave early and find something else to sell.

2. Stay put, sit in your corner moaning and being a pessimist, and get made redundant anyway.

3. Get some drive or motivation, try and show what you're capable of, maybe earn yourself a promotion or something. Cream rises to the top you know, or maybe more in your case sh** floats.

The whole thing about ex employees not liking their practices etc is horses for courses. If you and I went to a restaurant and ordered the same dish, despite it being a perfectly acceptable meal one of us would like it and the other wouldn't. As an example, myself and about 830 of my colleagues do exactly the same thing, with lengths of service varying from a few months to upwards of 40 years. Some love, some hate.

For me it's all about option 3, unless a real peach of an opportunity comes your way in the meantime.

Mouth, just want to say that I like your sig. How relevant it is to this thread

Oddly enough, it became my mantra while facing employment diversity.

Pross

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Pull yourself together! What you present as fact are just assumptions. See it as an opportunity and take the chance to impress the new owner. Alternative way of owning the problem is to start the hunt for another job.

I'm very much pulled together thank you. The job hunt and interview processes are already in the pipeline. I've no interest in impressing the new owners, their reputation is poor and if I'm out in the field representing them, then my reputation is damaged. So early exit.

Early exit is probably what they want, saves them the severance cost.

SC is right, you are assuming too much and being too pessimistic. With an attitude like that you could be a prolific contributor to your own Brexit thread

I have colleagues that have worked for them. They don't have anything good to say about them. One of my current colleagues left them to join my 'old' current firm. He is distraught as he knows what they're like to work for. He says it's the worst possible outcome.

I will not name and shame until I'm gone.

So you hated your previous company, you hate your current company and hate the new company.

Can I suggest you get a job in the public sector and join a union.

You forgot the rival company he turned an interview down at as he hated the MD for apparent past crimes.

Matthewfalle

Can I suggest you get a new career as you seem to hate everyone in your current industry?

crumbschief

Hearing the word distraught made me think of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfUEdbveGYM

mr_goo

Mr Goo wrote:

Well that's me and all my colleagues out of a job.
Global email at 10am yesterday. Sold to a company with a bad reputation who already have a sales team infrastructure.
Met with utter surprise amongst those in the construction industry.
Basically it looks like they've bought my firm as a financial crutch. They are publicly listed and have been struggling with their own portfolio of companies. Share price has been gradually in decline. Dividends have been poor.
Bought for only £12m. And we're left £6m in the bank account! So basically. Bought a firm that Turns over £5.5m per yer with pre tax profit of £1.5m, for a song. They turned over £40m and had pretax profit of £2m.
That £6m will disappear off to the directors, shareholders and maybe the pension fund. But certainly not our pension fund.
I've never been so f***ing angry over work.

And my prophecy of job loss comes true. And to prove that the new owners were utter bar stewards we've gone two weeks before Christmas.

To be honest whilst the timing is a bummer it has proved to be a relief. Walked away with a little bit of money due to service length but that's it.
In the time since takeover we had been praised as a vital resource to the group. Furnished with new kit. Wined and dined. But they also issued 2 profit warnings to the city. 3rd one will be forthcoming in Jan 19. But they can then say they've made some overhead reductions. Fact of matter is, the MD jacked it in 3 months ago. Followed by at least 3 other directors, including the finance director.
I suspect that sometime in 2019 they'll discover a black hole in the finances. They've been blaming Brexit and the collapse of Carrilion for their woes. Fact of matter is they didn't have much exposure to that company failing. But it's a good excuse to keep peddling.
Anyway I'm done with the construction industry. Its an horrendous industry, run in many cases by thugs and bullies.
I'm feeling very positive about the future and looking forward to a brighter, happier working life.

ballysmate

Sorry for the job loss but kudos for the upbeat attitude.

orraloon

'Tis pants man. Sorry to hear. Been through similar back in the day. From a young age I adopted the maxim 'I don't work for a company, I work for myself'. Has stood me in good stead. 4 exits so far from companies with a bag of payoff cash each time. Don't think there will be a #5 as I've been self employed the past 15 years... Hope things work out for you. Just as well we have freedom of movement still so you can have wider horizons... oh hang on...

slowmart

Goo, with your attitude you’ll be fine and once you’re sorted you’ll take a view it was a great change.

Quality of life and finding a role you find fulfilling is where it’s at.

Stevo_666

That's tough luck Goo, but you had the foresight to see it coming and you have got the positive attitude to move onwards and upwards.

Best of luck with the next opportunity.

robert88

Stevo 666 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

There's millions of us out here Surrey Comm that like to do a decent days work and keep our heads down. Yes we may complain about our lot. Who doesn't. But when you work for a small successful company and thrown into a tank full of sharks its not nice. I feel desperately sorry for my office and factory based colleagues. They are just ordinary jobbing office workers and semi skilled factory people in a very provincial town. Not in high demand. Their nearest place for job opportunities is 30 to 40 minutes away. Might not seem much to you on a high paid city salary. But when you're low paid it might as well be 30 to 40 hours away as it's not a financially sustainable option. They could have course all go and work in the minimarket or eateries and drinkeeries that take up all the other employment opportunities in the area.

Goo, you seem to be assuming that all or most of the staff are going to be kicked out. Do you have any evidence for that? (Not liking them is not evidence btw). It makes no logical sense for a company to buy another one to effectively shut down what they have just bought.

They could do if the order book and intellectual property was worth it, not to mention the removal of a rival.

It happens rather a lot.

DeVlaeminck

Good luck with the future Goo - apropos of nothing I was in the gym yesterday using the wattbike making yet another abortive attempt to get fit and an old mate from 25 years ago was in there.

Turned out he'd lost both parents, his sister and almost his only brother who had survived a cardiac arrest (luckily he was in hospital at the time) in the space of 2 years. Makes you realise sticking something out which is causing stress and unhappiness is only worth it for so long as none of us are here for ever.

FishFish

Stevo 666 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Imposter wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

To simplify. I've just heard the owner of my employer (totally private company ) is looking for suitors.
The company turns over £5-6m per annum. After costs and taxes it banks £400-500k per annum. I know that sitting in the company current account is between £10-11m. It owns it's own factory and land. Every bit of plant, machinery, IT, nuts bolts, bricks etc etc is all bought and paid for. There are no directors. We are talking very old school organisation.

The owner I think will be looking for between £15-£20m.

So how the he'll do I raise that kind of cash? Would a bank lend that kind of money knowing what liquid assets it already has and it's profitability. Could I form a secondary company to buy it and pay back the loan through the earnings of the parent company ?

You are missing some important points as there is no way a company making a profit of £5-6m on a turnover of £60-70m with £10-11m in the bank will not be sold for £15-20m.

The company is not making a profit of £5-6m - its turnover is £5-6m. Net profit appears to be £500-600k. Either way, a company is generally valued on a combination of it's profitability, its liquidity and its net assets.

I'd also be very surprised if there was £10-11m sitting in the current account.

If there is 10 mio in the current account I would suggest that they know not the hell what they are doing.......

Seriously there is £10-11m in the bank. Don't even ask why. I couldn't give you an answer. Other than my Weird 5hitometer has been in the red since joining this firm. I'm on look out to leave company anyway as the owner is just a weird vindictive individual whose attitude to his staff is beyond contempt.

Thought I'd ask the question anyhow. Firm has so much potential but as pointed out, because I don't operate at director level it seems the door would be slammed in my face.

Could be that it has been profitable for donkeys years but he has never paid out big dividends to himself and is looking to get a lower rate of capital gains when he sells up?

How about you and others look to do a management 'buy in'?

The capital gain would consider the net assets which would include cash in the bank so I think would attract some CGT but your idea of a MBO might just be very appealing to the owners who can then write themselves in to posterity.