When do you start to worry about HR?
navrig2
Posts: 1,809
Earlier this year I discovered smart trainers and Trainer Road. I am follow the TR plan for genetally getting fitter, stronger, fast etc.
I am actually enjoying turbo training and think I should hit next Spring fitter than I have ever done before, perhaps fitter than I have been for many many years.
Yesterday I did a 90 minute session which is aimed at stamina, no intervals just 80 minutes at between 60-70% of FTP. It was hard but I finished with no harm other than a sore gooch and a bit of weal which has disappeared overnight with some sudo cream.
According to the TR app my average HR was 156 and according to Strava my HR maxed at 173. I saw 169 displayed but I don't stare at the screen all the time. At no time did I feel cardiovascular distressed, at times I was being pushed and stressed but not to the extent if wanting or needing to stop.
My HR hasn't been this high for a while. A few years ago I hit 183 but that was on an alpine climb and I was struggling. I don't wear my HRM when riding outside (I will start to do so now) so don't know where I get to on my Saturday rides (50 miles at 15mph typically).
The guideline of 220 less your age is known to be pretty misguided so at what HR should I get worried or do I just rely in how I feel.
I'll be 55 on the next birthday.
I am actually enjoying turbo training and think I should hit next Spring fitter than I have ever done before, perhaps fitter than I have been for many many years.
Yesterday I did a 90 minute session which is aimed at stamina, no intervals just 80 minutes at between 60-70% of FTP. It was hard but I finished with no harm other than a sore gooch and a bit of weal which has disappeared overnight with some sudo cream.
According to the TR app my average HR was 156 and according to Strava my HR maxed at 173. I saw 169 displayed but I don't stare at the screen all the time. At no time did I feel cardiovascular distressed, at times I was being pushed and stressed but not to the extent if wanting or needing to stop.
My HR hasn't been this high for a while. A few years ago I hit 183 but that was on an alpine climb and I was struggling. I don't wear my HRM when riding outside (I will start to do so now) so don't know where I get to on my Saturday rides (50 miles at 15mph typically).
The guideline of 220 less your age is known to be pretty misguided so at what HR should I get worried or do I just rely in how I feel.
I'll be 55 on the next birthday.
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All that being said, If you do not feel like you heart is exploding out of your chest and your breathing can't keep up then you are fine as you are not hitting your max. If you feel OK then you are OK.
Riding near your max is not a problem unless you have underlying problems, yesterday on a hill climb I hit 182, my max is 186 and thought nothing of it, even though I'm 67.
Now anyone got tips for a sore gooch......
Is that a Confucius quote?
Could be nothing.
Who knows
If its the only measurement you have then listen to your body along with the numbers
There is some confusion here. If, as you say you were training at 60-70% FTP then you would be nowhere near your theoratical max HR and someway below your FTHR as well. Max HR testing is very difficult and easy to get wrong and could potentially be dangerous if you are not used to it.
Years ago when I first got an HRM and was much younger, I did extensive HR testing and found my max HR so that I could work out my training zones. Nowdays FTP (or FTHR) are easier to test for, although no less pleasant, but at least you are not pushing yourself to your absolute max, only to what you can sustain for 20 minutes.
I don't know Trainer Road but I would assume it has an FTP test in there somewhere. If it does then I would suggest using this and finding out your FTP/FTHR, train to this and not worry about max HR.
Do a proper FTP test - painful but necessary if you are at all serious about zone training. Guessing what you think it might be just doesn't work. Taking it easy doesn't work either because your training zones will be too low to stress you adequately for adaptation and getting fitter.
Thanks Hypster.
You need to pace yourself and produce the maximum effort you can sustain for the 20 minute test. Don't go balls-out at the start because you will have difficulty maintaining that to the end. Try to find an effort which feels manageable but at the same time outside your comfort zone, if that doesn't sound too contradictory. If after say 10 minutes you are feeling comfortable then try and up the pace a bit. The last 5 minutes should feel pretty hard but keep going and push right through to the finish.
Hopefully the TR FTP test will have a warmup built in before the actual test. If not do one yourself for at least 15 minutes and include 2 or 3 10 second sprints with one minute recovery in there too finishing with say 5 minutes of steady tempo before the test.
When the test is finished you should feel like you couldn't have given any more. Good luck and let us know how you got on.
I do 20 min ftp tests maybe every other month and will watch the HR start in the 150 range and over 20 min peg out at about 185 or so the last 5 minutes.
I've also taken 95% of my 20min ftp power and made an attempt at an hour. That was holding the 170's for HR the entire hour.
I'd say it depends on your overall beginning health. If coming from nothing, I'd ease into it. More fat burn zone and some lower cardio zone. Get into a routine. After a while start to spend more time in the cardio zone.
That's such a generic statement of me to make, but everyone is different. I just know that it is important to know your body and maybe visit the doctor first before much elevated work.
We get a yearly EKG included in my health insurance for who I work for in the US. And that turned up fine. So, I have at it with the training.
Surely any zone where you are registering a heart rate is a 'cardio' zone, by definition..?
That's good, the more practice you have the better you get at pacing yourself. I do 2 x 20 sessions on the road roughly once a month during Spring and Summer. Each one of those is not only a good workout but also a mini FTP test in terms of pacing and a performance check.
I got stuck in a long meeting yesterday afternoon after only eating a salad with fish. I got home an hour later than normal, grabbed a slice of bread and butter and a glass of milk then jumped on the turbo.
It started ok but when TR took me to the 5 min FTP block (part of the warm up) I had to start using the gears (this is intended) and I got it wrong, went at it too hard and 22 minutes collapsed in a sweaty heap!!
TBH I don't think my head was in it after the long meeting.
I'll get the hang of it eventually. Probably try again tonight.
An easy ride tonight and retest maybe Friday.
Probably a good idea. I'll take it easy with pizza and Ben & Jerry's tonight
What about your recovery rate in the 1st and 2nd minutes after a hard few mins?
The reason for asking, is that if you have a high resting HR and slow recovery, then you will maintain a higher avg - simple maths. Slow recovery rate can be an indication of a problem however.
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Not aware of anything which supports that assertion at all, unless you can clarify.
While there is no evidence that someone with a low resting will recover through the zones quicker, they will in pure nunbers terms. That means if you sampled their data over a typical workout the avg in numerical terms will be higher/lower. Though they may be avg the same zone.
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Typical resting HR is low 50s. Recovery is normally fairly quick. Both of which I understood to better than a high resting HR and slow recovery.
I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that resting HR has any influence on max HR. I thought it was generally understood that most HR calculators are junk anyway.
For example if, if two people are training to their anaerobic threshold, perhaps to improve their resistance to lactic acid build up in the muscles, one with a resting of 40 and a max of 175 and the other with a resting of 70 and a max of 175, they will have different avg. HR for the work done. This will be even more noticeable if the training is mixed.
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But how much is that average influenced by the resting HR of 75 and how much comes from fitness and natural capacity etc?
The time to go from a static 40 to 75 will be very short, in fact it's likely that my heart rate as I swing my leg over the bike will be fairly close to 75 and certainly will not be in the low 50s (my resting HR).
Their average HR will depend on how hard they have worked in the session, nothing more. Just because they have the same MHR, does not necessarily imply that their thresholds will be identical - they are two different people after all. Their RHR is irrelevant.
Like I asked you before - what evidence is there to support this assertion? Like I said earlier, I don't think there is any evidence that resting HR has - or should have - any influence on training zones. You simply repeating this does not make it any more true.
Cardiovascular training and an overall endurance exercise regimen will decrease resting heart rate and heart rate recovery time will be quicker. So on a mixed workout, you'll be recording lower data points as a result which will influence the avg.
The numerical avg. isn't hugely important as that will depend on resting and max. The important bit is how much power you can produce for a given HR load. As a rule of thumb, if you keep hitting your max, then you might need to retest it and adjust your training zones.
@imposter - how do you calculate your training zones?
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Sorry mate - you simply can't get away (on this forum at least) with making claims you can't support. And if you can't support them, don't get upset when you get called out.
RHR is never likely to be a factor which influences average HR during CV exercise. You don't need to be a genius or a cardiologist to understand that - you just need to think about it.
When I trained with HR, I calculated my zones on my known MHR at the time. LTHR is also another valid method and works equally well. I haven't checked my RHR since the 90s. And even then, I only did it for interest's sake.
As I'm sure others have said, HR is personal to you and part of the problem with heart rate is that it is a response to the exertion rather than an indication of the level of exertion at the time. At a year older than you, I'd be doing cartwheels if my HR was averaging 156bpm fos such a ride as mine rockets to the 150s within minutes of starting a ride. I do have a blocked left artery though so the heart works overtime during physical exercise. The downside is that I never get a second wind so to speak and why training with power is a better option for me.