New power meter options

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Comments

  • cgfw201
    cgfw201 Posts: 680
    redvision wrote:
    Right, forget the comment about the shimano pm, I have cancelled the order this morning as had another email to say my estimated delivery is now mid jan.

    So back to square one.
    Have just been looking at power 2 max again. Bit confused with the options. I know I said I wanted to keep shimano cranks but can someone offer some advice on what model would be needed for a hollowtech bb? Would the NG Rotor 3D work?

    Appreciate the infocrank suggestion but read hit and miss reviews so won't be going down that road.

    Must admit I am still tempted by the vector 3. I didn't really want to go down the pedal based system again after the p1 fiasco I suffered but the reviews do look very encouraging.

    Again, would recommend a Quarq. Dual sided crank system, works with Shimano rings. Can get spider or one with cranks included.

    https://www.sigmasport.co.uk/item/Quarq ... lsrc=aw.ds
  • whatleytom
    whatleytom Posts: 547
    Something like this should fit the typical 24mm shimano spindle type BB.

    https://www.power2max.de/europe/en/Prod ... 3d24-road/
    Blog on first season road racing http://www.twhatley.com/
  • proto
    proto Posts: 1,483
    I've still got a Quarq Elsa R for sale. GXP BB, 170mm carbon cranks, 52/36 SRAM rings. (might be able to find some 50/34 in the shed. Need to look)

    If you are keen on BB30, I could transfer the spider over to some SRAM Force 22 carbon BB30 cranks I have that I could live without.

    Any good?
  • schlepcycling
    schlepcycling Posts: 1,614
    redvision wrote:
    Right, forget the comment about the shimano pm, I have cancelled the order this morning as had another email to say my estimated delivery is now mid jan.

    So back to square one.
    Have just been looking at power 2 max again. Bit confused with the options. I know I said I wanted to keep shimano cranks but can someone offer some advice on what model would be needed for a hollowtech bb? Would the NG Rotor 3D work?

    Appreciate the infocrank suggestion but read hit and miss reviews so won't be going down that road.

    Must admit I am still tempted by the vector 3. I didn't really want to go down the pedal based system again after the p1 fiasco I suffered but the reviews do look very encouraging.
    If you want to keep a 24mm spindle then the Rotor 3D24 power2max would be suitable. They do it in the NG, NGeco and Type S versions, although I think for the NG and NGeco you'd need to provide the cranks which with a quick google can be had for about £170 from ebay or £190 from Wiggle or Velotech Services. So if you went with the NGeco + cranks that'd cost approx £630 minus rings. However the power2max is only a single sided PM so it doesn't measure true L/R power which looking back at your OP was one of your requirements.
    'Hello to Jason Isaacs'
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Have to say, I'm seriously tempted by the watteam powerbeat, seems like a billy bargain, just a shame they haven't worked out compatibility yet with older shimano cranksets (6700 or 5700 would do me, I have both).

    Still, even by the time you factor in the price of a new 105 crankset it's cheaper than pretty much all the rival dual sided options, and would be swappable across all my shimano bottom bracketed bikes.
  • whatleytom
    whatleytom Posts: 547
    proto wrote:
    I've still got a Quarq Elsa R for sale. GXP BB, 170mm carbon cranks, 52/36 SRAM rings. (might be able to find some 50/34 in the shed. Need to look)

    If you are keen on BB30, I could transfer the spider over to some SRAM Force 22 carbon BB30 cranks I have that I could live without.

    Any good?

    How much?
    Blog on first season road racing http://www.twhatley.com/
  • wongataa
    wongataa Posts: 1,001
    redvision wrote:
    Right, forget the comment about the shimano pm, I have cancelled the order this morning as had another email to say my estimated delivery is now mid jan.

    So back to square one.
    Have just been looking at power 2 max again. Bit confused with the options. I know I said I wanted to keep shimano cranks but can someone offer some advice on what model would be needed for a hollowtech bb? Would the NG Rotor 3D work?
    For a direct Shimano replacement you can go for Type S FSA Gossamer or Rotor 3D24, NGeco FSA Gossamer Megaexo or Rotor 3D24, NG FSA Gossamer Megaexo or Rotor 3D24. They have 24 mm spindles. You can buy those powermeters with the cranks and chainrings from Power2Max. I did this. I got the TypeS FSA Gossamer one with cranks and rings. It was easy to assemble and fit to the bike.
  • foggymike
    foggymike Posts: 862
    The rotor 3d24 type S is still on a good deal where you get free praxis rings, rotor chainring bolts, assembly tool and coloured ring. It's not clear on the website but still works when you add everything into the basket - you just pay the price of the meter and cranks only. After uk postage and currency charges it's about £600 all in. With the NG eco version of the 3d24 (you add the cranks and other bits as options) it works out about £100 more. The only real difference is the Bluetooth as well as ant+ on the eco version. Unless you need Bluetooth I'd say the type S is a pretty good deal right now.

    I've got one and can confirm it goes straight into a shimano bb with no issues whatsoever. The left/right balance data is suspect though as it's just an estimate (see dc rainmaker reviews on these). It certainly seems to overestimate on my left leg. Otherwise I'm very happy with mine.

    P2M usually do a decent Black Friday deal too, I think it was £100 off last year over that weekend. Worth checking out.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    proto wrote:
    Daughter has a Quarq Elsa R she needs to sell. Carbon crank arms, 170mm, GXP axle, fitted with 52/36 SRAM rings. It's been faultless for 2 years, only reason for selling is her new bike is 9000 series Dura Ace, so has bought a Quarq DFour to match.

    Any good?

    Thanks again but having thought (endlessly) about which pm to go for i think i will be buying brand new for the warranty. Thanks for the offer though.
    schlepcycling wrote:
    However the power2max is only a single sided PM so it doesn't measure true L/R power which looking back at your OP was one of your requirements.

    Argh, i didn't realise this. I was never really bothered about left right but as i look to step up my performance this year, and having received advice from a coach, it is a necessity this time around.
  • foggymike
    foggymike Posts: 862
    P2M isn't single sided. It measures at the spider so captures both sides. This means it can't accurately measure the force from each leg completely independently, though they try to split out each revolution into 2 power phases to give an estimate. To do it properly you need to measure each side seperately, either on each crank arm or each pedal or whatever. Whether measuring this is of any value to those not recovering from an injury seems to divide opinion :)

    Is your coach telling you to avoid left only meters like 4iiii and Stages and get a power meter which captures power from both legs (in which case any spider based meter or powertap hub is ok) or to capture each leg individually, in which case it's more limited?
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    foggymike wrote:

    Is your coach telling you to avoid left only meters like 4iiii and Stages and get a power meter which captures power from both legs (in which case any spider based meter or powertap hub is ok) or to capture each leg individually, in which case it's more limited?

    Basically the latter. I currently have a 4iiii pm on both bikes and both have been consistent. However, the last couple of years I've been plagued by a knee issue which (touch wood) is finally on the mend, but given this and having discussed training and the injury history with the coach, he strongly advised that to help the recovery process and to build for a full season and higher goals next year, I need power readings from both legs.

    4iiii do a double side option (only available by sending your dura ace crankset to them), and they do have a newer version (podiiiium) coming out next Jan. But after having reliability issues on the 105 version I have on my training bike (resulting in the device being replaced under warranty - which was a very lengthy process!) I have decided this is not an option I will be pursuing.
  • foggymike
    foggymike Posts: 862
    Fair enough. Given all that I'd maybe reconsider the Vector3's mentioned earlier. No reason they should give trouble just because the powertap ones did - no pods now and no torque wrench needed for fitting. Maybe some good black friday deals abot to make them worth a punt.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    foggymike wrote:
    Fair enough. Given all that I'd maybe reconsider the Vector3's mentioned earlier. No reason they should give trouble just because the powertap ones did - no pods now and no torque wrench needed for fitting. Maybe some good black friday deals abot to make them worth a punt.

    Yeah i'm seriously considering them. After reading the reviews I think they sound like a much improved version of the vector 2, which in turn were apparently far more reliable than the powertap p1. DCR absolutely loves his vector 3s.

    Only thing with pedal based system is you are restricted to the pedal and cleats (I much prefer shimano to look) and when the bearings go both pedals have to go back for repair, leaving you without them for several weeks.
  • pippi_langsamer-2
    pippi_langsamer-2 Posts: 1,470
    redvision wrote:
    foggymike wrote:
    Fair enough. Given all that I'd maybe reconsider the Vector3's mentioned earlier. No reason they should give trouble just because the powertap ones did - no pods now and no torque wrench needed for fitting. Maybe some good black friday deals abot to make them worth a punt.

    Yeah i'm seriously considering them. After reading the reviews I think they sound like a much improved version of the vector 2, which in turn were apparently far more reliable than the powertap p1. DCR absolutely loves his vector 3s.

    Only thing with pedal based system is you are restricted to the pedal and cleats (I much prefer shimano to look) and when the bearings go both pedals have to go back for repair, leaving you without them for several weeks.

    Thing I like about the Favero's is they seem to sell a full range of spares...
  • foggymike
    foggymike Posts: 862
    Not be long before these land and the price drops off a bit - they look expensive at launch as always. No good if you need one now though...

    https://www.powermeter24.com/uk/stages- ... 00-lr-1152
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    foggymike wrote:
    Not be long before these land and the price drops off a bit - they look expensive at launch as always. No good if you need one now though...

    https://www.powermeter24.com/uk/stages- ... 00-lr-1152

    Don't think i will ever go down the Stages route. And tbh if i was going to consider that i would choose the 4iiii upgrade or new podiiiium first, purely because i know it's accurate.

    Really disappointed how few options there seems to be. Looks like the best two options are the Quarq and the Vector 3 :?
  • foggymike
    foggymike Posts: 862
    The Quarq is a best estimate from the spider, just the same as Power2max. If you really want/need independant measuring of each leg I think you've probably narrowed down your search enough now :)

    From DCR..

    Troy@Quarq
    April 26, 2017 at 6:10 pm #102

    Hi Brian,

    The strain gauges are in the crankset spider. The spider, chainrings and chain are what drives the bike forward, so we are measuring total power output — the combined output of both legs. To create left/right balance we split the pedal stroke into two halves. From 12 o’clock to 6 o’clock on the drive side is counted as right and 12 o’clock to 6 o’clock on the non-drive side is counted as left. I have heard this called downstream power balance, which is a decent term for it. Although it can prove useful for injury recovery, it is not a true left/right measurement.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    foggymike wrote:
    The Quarq is a best estimate from the spider, just the same as Power2max. If you really want/need independant measuring of each leg I think you've probably narrowed down your search enough now :)

    From DCR..

    Troy@Quarq
    April 26, 2017 at 6:10 pm #102

    Hi Brian,

    The strain gauges are in the crankset spider. The spider, chainrings and chain are what drives the bike forward, so we are measuring total power output — the combined output of both legs. To create left/right balance we split the pedal stroke into two halves. From 12 o’clock to 6 o’clock on the drive side is counted as right and 12 o’clock to 6 o’clock on the non-drive side is counted as left. I have heard this called downstream power balance, which is a decent term for it. Although it can prove useful for injury recovery, it is not a true left/right measurement.

    Damn it! Well i guess that rules the Quarq out as well then :evil:
    Thanks for your help finding this info.

    Guess i may have to bite the bullet and just risk the vector 3s, going against what i promised myself - that i would never have another set of powermeter pedals. :?
  • londoncommuter
    londoncommuter Posts: 1,550
    TimothyW wrote:
    Have to say, I'm seriously tempted by the watteam powerbeat, seems like a billy bargain, just a shame they haven't worked out compatibility yet with older shimano cranksets (6700 or 5700 would do me, I have both).

    Still, even by the time you factor in the price of a new 105 crankset it's cheaper than pretty much all the rival dual sided options, and would be swappable across all my shimano bottom bracketed bikes.

    Had you thought about these at all? Other than looking very ugly, they seem interesting. Left/right balance and "dirt cheap" (for a power meter), especially if you get two sets and even more so if you know anyone going to the US.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Yeah, pretty impressed that he has completely ignored the option that is exactly the kind of measurement he wants for half the price.

    Perhaps after something reassuringly expensive? ;-)
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    TimothyW wrote:
    Yeah, pretty impressed that he has completely ignored the option that is exactly the kind of measurement he wants for half the price.

    Perhaps after something reassuringly expensive? ;-)

    I haven't ignored it but it just doesn't appeal to me (I think it looks hideous).
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    So, a month later and I have finally decided to order the vector 3 pedals. Will be interesting to see how they fair, and still not particularly looking forward to using look cleats again (well, exustar cleats), but was the only option in the end.

    Anyway, question now is whether to switch back to the garmin 520 to get the extra benefits of the vectors. I love my Wahoo elemnt bolt and would never have considered switching back to the 520, but the vectors have some data features which at the moment is locked to garmin computers. Question is, are those data fields worth the frustrations which inevitably come with the 520?? :?

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