New power meter options

redvision
redvision Posts: 2,958
edited December 2017 in Road buying advice
Morning folks,

Decided that I want to switch back to a power meter which reads from both legs. Budget is about 1k.

Following the pain of previously having the p1's I have been put off a pedal based system. So looking at a crank pm but can't stretch to a srm.
Have looked at power2max but didn't really want to change my cranks from shimano.

Until there are user reviews of the new shimano power meter I'm reluctant to fork out so much for a new product... which is arguably over priced at the moment.

I am a follower of dcrainmaker and have gone through his reviews/ recommendations at length but would appreciate opinions and suggestions from users on here.

Thanks
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Comments

  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Powertap wheel. Sorted.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    cougie wrote:
    Powertap wheel. Sorted.

    Na, I thought about the wheels but decided against.
    Tbh following my p1 experience and bloody awful customer support from powertap I will be staying away from that company.
  • stevie63
    stevie63 Posts: 481
    cougie wrote:
    Powertap wheel. Sorted.
    ^^^^^^^ I would agree with this. Alternatively you could go DIY and fit the Watteam powerbeat to your existing cranks.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    The other problem with the powertap wheels is they don't measure left right power, only the combined power. What I'm specifically looking for is a pm which measures both.
  • stevie63
    stevie63 Posts: 481
    Well like I said above then-Watteam powerbeat measures left/right power and with the DC Rainmaker discount code comes in at under £340.00 from Clevertraining.
  • schlepcycling
    schlepcycling Posts: 1,614
    How about the Garmin Vector 3s https://www.evanscycles.com/garmin-vector-3-double-sided-power-meter-EV318374 they're due out 16Nov17 @ £849.00
    'Hello to Jason Isaacs'
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    schlepcycling wrote:
    How about the Garmin Vector 3s https://www.evanscycles.com/garmin-vector-3-double-sided-power-meter-EV318374 they're due out 16Nov17 @ £849.00

    Must admit I have looked at these and was tempted but ultimately, following the issues with the p1's, I don't think I will be going down the pedal based pm route again.

    I have been looking all morning and it seems there are very few pm options for shimano cranks :(
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    Why not just get the Dura Ace pm, should come in around £1000 on a Black Friday deal
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    SloppySchleckonds wrote:
    Why not just get the Dura Ace pm, should come in around £1000 on a Black Friday deal

    Tbh I am leaning towards that. Just a bit cautious as it's a new product and pm's have a history of teething problems at launch...
  • cgfw201
    cgfw201 Posts: 680
    Quarq?

    Dual sided power, well under your budget and pretty much bomb proof from my experience.
  • JesseD
    JesseD Posts: 1,961
    FSA Powerbox?

    I have the alloy version and its been faultless and its only £550, but you can get a carbon version which is lighter and is closer to your £1000 budget at £850 so it still leaves you £150 to play with, maybe a ceramic BB?
    Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!
  • Hanners
    Hanners Posts: 260
    Why are you looking to stay with Shimano?
    I would opt for either a power 2 max ( mines been faultless)or quarg both are reliable and been around long enough to know all issues have been sorted plus at the moment they are both great value.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    Hanners wrote:
    Why are you looking to stay with Shimano?

    I just like shimano and would like to keep the groupsets on each bike matching. Guess its the vanity thing :oops:
  • MisterMuncher
    MisterMuncher Posts: 1,302
    Power2Max NG/ NGEco can be bought with a four-hole Shimano compatible spider in Rotor3D or FSA Gossamer flavour. That would let you use your Shimano rings, and keep the shifting quality. As a PM, the Eco is more than adequate, and the "missing" functions cf. the full fat NG can be purchased individually but at a later date. It's electronically and functionally identical to an FSA Powerbox, and I echo JesseD's remarks above. Quarq DFour provides similar function and compatibility, but I'm not as familiar with it.

    Shimano options really don't abound because the cranks don't have a removable spider, and as I understand it, they're somewhat reluctant to sell cranks OEM to PM makers and cannibalise the market for their own PM.
  • Beatmaker
    Beatmaker Posts: 1,092
    Redvision, can I ask what issues you had with a pedal based system? I'm about to move from a Rotor Inpower to Garmin Vector 3s so I can swap them between bikes.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    Beatmaker wrote:
    Redvision, can I ask what issues you had with a pedal based system? I'm about to move from a Rotor Inpower to Garmin Vector 3s so I can swap them between bikes.

    Well my opinion is based purely from an experience of the powertap p1 pedals.
    Quite simply it was the worst purchase i have ever made. When they worked they were great and it was extremely easy switching between bikes. The problem was the build quality, it was terrible. I returned so many sets as all developed play in the bearings (i weigh 70kg so weight was not a factor) which then led to inconsistent power readings. Each time powertap customer support offered no help and just asked for the pedals to be returned for repair/to be replaced. Problem with this was it took the best part of 6 weeks to get the replacement sets. Finally after months of suffering i received a full refund.

    There are owners who have not experienced any of these problems, but from what i have read and from similar complaints posted on here, it seems the issues are quite common.

    I have not tried the vectors or the bepro pedals, but from the experience of the p1's i don't think i would go back to a pedal based power meter.
  • wongataa
    wongataa Posts: 1,001
    MisterMuncher wrote:
    Power2Max NG/ NGEco can be bought with a four-hole Shimano compatible spider in Rotor3D or FSA Gossamer flavour. That would let you use your Shimano rings, and keep the shifting quality. As a PM, the Eco is more than adequate, and the "missing" functions cf. the full fat NG can be purchased individually but at a later date. It's electronically and functionally identical to an FSA Powerbox, and I echo JesseD's remarks above. Quarq DFour provides similar function and compatibility, but I'm not as familiar with it.

    Shimano options really don't abound because the cranks don't have a removable spider, and as I understand it, they're somewhat reluctant to sell cranks OEM to PM makers and cannibalise the market for their own PM.
    I have a P2M with FSA cranks. I use Praxis Works chainrings and have noticed no difference from the Shimano crankset it replaced. P2M power meters don't do true L/R balance though, they estimate it. If you want true L/R balance you need pedal based systems or crank arm based systems such dual 4iii, Wattteam, Verve Infrocrank, dual Stages.
  • vinnymarsden
    vinnymarsden Posts: 560
    I had a Quarq aluminium crank with Sram red rings...as previous poster said..bombproof...I sold it...regretted that decision and now looking to get a carbon Red Quarq crank.... easy to fit..simple to use..and good power readings/solid/both sides and i tended to believe the figures, which is more than I can say for the Kickr built in PM...albeit it reads low in my opinion ALL the time..so its consistent at least!!
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    DC Rainmaker published his annual PM Buyers Guide yesterday. Probably worth a read - it's pretty comprehensive.
  • joenobody
    joenobody Posts: 563
    JoeNobody wrote:
    it's pretty comprehensive.
    I may be understating that ;)
  • proto
    proto Posts: 1,483
    Daughter has a Quarq Elsa R she needs to sell. Carbon crank arms, 170mm, GXP axle, fitted with 52/36 SRAM rings. It's been faultless for 2 years, only reason for selling is her new bike is 9000 series Dura Ace, so has bought a Quarq DFour to match.

    Any good?
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    proto wrote:
    Daughter has a Quarq Elsa R she needs to sell. Carbon crank arms, 170mm, GXP axle, fitted with 52/36 SRAM rings. It's been faultless for 2 years, only reason for selling is her new bike is 9000 series Dura Ace, so has bought a Quarq DFour to match.

    Any good?

    Thanks for the offer, really appreciate it.
    But decided to go for the shimano pm. Although already had an email, just 24 hours after placing the order, putting the estimated delivery back by 2 weeks. :x
  • The_Wicker_Man
    The_Wicker_Man Posts: 338
    Verve Infocrank?
  • whatleytom
    whatleytom Posts: 547
    Why? Almost one of the worst crank based solutions. Does nothing particularly well, at significantly more expense than other much better options.
    Blog on first season road racing http://www.twhatley.com/
  • pippi_langsamer-2
    pippi_langsamer-2 Posts: 1,470
    whatleytom wrote:
    Why? Almost one of the worst crank based solutions. Does nothing particularly well, at significantly more expense than other much better options.

    Really? Other than the price (and the fact it's ugly), I'm yet to read a bad review about Infocrank. High accuracy, no repeat calibration necessary, resistent to temp drift...
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    DCR likes it apart from the cost of it anyway.
  • whatleytom
    whatleytom Posts: 547
    OK, worst was an extreme. But like I say, it's far more expensive for what it is, and more work than the likes of Power2max/Quarq. A battery in each crank arm :?
    Blog on first season road racing http://www.twhatley.com/
  • pippi_langsamer-2
    pippi_langsamer-2 Posts: 1,470
    whatleytom wrote:
    OK, worst was an extreme. But like I say, it's far more expensive for what it is, and more work than the likes of Power2max/Quarq. A battery in each crank arm :?

    More accurate than most other meters on the market (due to the inbedded gauges), and other than the independent batteries, far less work than most other meters due to the fact it doesn’t require zero offsetting. In fact, most reviews bestow the fact it’s almost the best option with regards “fit-and-forget”.

    I believe they’ve also listened to DCR comments on pricing, and are looking to re-evaluate their pricing structure in view of the competition. Sounds like a company that actually listens!
  • pippi_langsamer-2
    pippi_langsamer-2 Posts: 1,470
    Pippi Langsamer wrote:
    whatleytom wrote:
    OK, worst was an extreme. But like I say, it's far more expensive for what it is, and more work than the likes of Power2max/Quarq. A battery in each crank arm :?

    More accurate than most other meters on the market (due to the in-bedded gauges), and other than the independent batteries, far less work than most other meters due to the fact it doesn’t require zero offsetting. In fact, most reviews bestow the fact it’s almost the best option with regards “fit-and-forget”.

    Also, for what is a true Left/ Right meter with individual gauges in each crank, of course you’re going to have to fit a battery in each arm.

    I believe they’ve also listened to DCR comments on pricing, and are looking to re-evaluate their pricing structure in view of the competition. Sounds like a company that actually listens!
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    Right, forget the comment about the shimano pm, I have cancelled the order this morning as had another email to say my estimated delivery is now mid jan.

    So back to square one.
    Have just been looking at power 2 max again. Bit confused with the options. I know I said I wanted to keep shimano cranks but can someone offer some advice on what model would be needed for a hollowtech bb? Would the NG Rotor 3D work?

    Appreciate the infocrank suggestion but read hit and miss reviews so won't be going down that road.

    Must admit I am still tempted by the vector 3. I didn't really want to go down the pedal based system again after the p1 fiasco I suffered but the reviews do look very encouraging.

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