Meat unsustainable?

earth

I started growing vegetables in the garden a few years ago. I know through experience to grow them on any scale and of the quality people are accustomed to from the supermarket requires pest control. Otherwise they are eaten by slugs, snail, caterpillars, flies and whatever other miniature beast cares.

We already know bees are disappearing and a recent report says pollinators are down 75% in 30 years. The pesticides required to grow commercially are killing everything. Once there are no pollinators doing the job for free we will have a big problem.

It appears to me that the vegetarian/vegan diet is equally as unsustainable as a meat diet. Although cows don't care if they eat a bug in with their mouthful of grass. Farm livestock and you don't need pesticides.

FishFish

You can also give them a good muttoning. Can't knob a turnip - I've tried.

orraloon

FishFish wrote:

Can't knob a turnip - I've tried.

Try harder.

earth

FishFish wrote:

You can also give them a good muttoning. Can't knob a turnip - I've tried.

Turnips are used the other way round.

rjsterry

earth wrote:

I started growing vegetables in the garden a few years ago. I know through experience to grow them on any scale and of the quality people are accustomed to from the supermarket requires pest control. Otherwise they are eaten by slugs, snail, caterpillars, flies and whatever other miniature beast cares.

We already know bees are disappearing and a recent report says pollinators are down 75% in 30 years. The pesticides required to grow commercially are killing everything. Once there are no pollinators doing the job for free we will have a big problem.

It appears to me that the vegetarian/vegan diet is equally as unsustainable as a meat diet. Although cows don't care if they eat a bug in with their mouthful of grass. Farm livestock and you don't need pesticides.

But you do need feed, which has to be grown. If people weren't so terrified of GM, we could grow things that were more pest resistant and use less pesticides.

crumbschief

Everything is unsustainable now.

pblakeney

The solution is simple, but unthinkable.
Eradicate humans and all will be well.

seanoconn

PBlakeney wrote:

The solution is simple, but unthinkable.
Eradicate humans and all will be well.

We're well overdue a cull.

bondurant

Anyone mind if I skip it?

mfin

If food was distributed way better, with less of the horrendous levels of waste, and those that over eat didn't over eat then capacity would look much better.

If we ate more food you didn't have to grow it would help too, like pizzas. Plus, if we weren't so picky and ate more seasonal food for more of the year, like sprouts and terry's chocolate oranges.

pblakeney

mfin wrote:

If we ate more food you didn't have to grow it would help too, like pizzas. Plus, if we weren't so picky and ate more seasonal food for more of the year, like sprouts and terry's chocolate oranges.

tangled_metal

Candied fruit used to be a good seasonable food, counts as one of your 5 a day too!

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7f/c6/b0/7fc6b0e7003b7227b20b1ae476a81975.jpg

haydenm

You could eat organic? That way it's more sustainable in terms of pesticides but needs 3 times the land to grow the same amount of food...

tangled_metal

You will be eating insects before long anyway. Fish farming has a potential for being a more efficient option for getting protein but only if the fish are reared and fed in a certain way. There was a good national geographic article about protein production a few years back. Not sure if it's online but take a look if this topic interests you and it's online.

darkhairedlord

It really depends upon the lay of the land; you can't grow wheat on a welsh hillside!

haydenm

darkhairedlord wrote:

It really depends upon the lay of the land; you can't grow wheat on a welsh hillside!

Grow trees. We can grow trees on welsh hillsides which are worth millions and buy your food elsewhere. A well thought out plan.

Pep

earth wrote:

It appears to me that the vegetarian/vegan diet is equally as unsustainable as a meat diet.

Why?

keef66

We're fast running out of land suitable for growing crops, global population continues to grow, and more people are wanting to eat more meat. For every new vegetarian in the west, there's a hundred in China eating McDonalds*. It requires a lot more land to produce 1kg of animal protein than 1kg of plant protein, and add to that the insane practice of growing crops just to feed anaerobic digesters, bioethanol plants etc, it's clear we're headed for a food crisis at some point.

And that's when I think GM and other crop and animal biotechnology will suddenly become more acceptable. It's already widespread in medicine / pharma, and people don't turn a hair because there are clear benefits. Same will happen with crops when we have food shortages in the developed world.

And don't get me started on the huge food inequalities around the globe, the significant losses during growing, harvesting, storing and distribution, or the fact that half the western world is morbidly obese and still manage to throw away half the food they buy while sub-Saharan African countries are suffering famine with depressing regularity.

For a supposedly intelligent species we seem pretty crap at sorting out the basic stuff like food, water, housing and healthcare. And stopping people shooting and blowing each other up.

I think it's us that's unsustainable.

*sweeping generalisation based on no facts at all. I should take to Twitter.

mfin

keef66 wrote:

For a supposedly intelligent species we seem pretty crap at sorting out the basic stuff like food, water, housing and healthcare. And stopping people shooting and blowing each other up.

Oh I dunno, I think we're pretty good at basic stuff like food, water, housing and healthcare. I have a house and it has taps that I can get water from, and I can pop around the corner to the supermarket and get foods from around the world and pot noodles. If I'm ill I can buy drugs or go to the doctors even if there is a queue or a wait.

I don't see many people shooting and blowing themselves up when I'm out and about. In other countries where they have conflicts or dumb laws of course it is more prevalent. I know some people in the US too, and surprisingly none of them have been shot in the last few weeks either.

tangled_metal

He means overall I think. As in of you think of the whole planet and our species. If we were truly intelligent would you expect obesity and waste in the west when a large part of our species is starving or struggling to get even a tenth of what we get. Truly intelligent / evolved species would have surely evened this out across the planet.

Socialist of me but on a purely greater good basis what good is money in the rich world sat in banks, electronically, gold reserves, other capital when a Sudanese child of 9 has the development level of a starved and nutritionally deprived 4 year old because he's born into the wrong part of the world.

The day Trump lives in America in the lifestyle of a Sudanese man is the day I'll consider this fair.

mfin

Tangled Metal wrote:

He means overall I think. As in of you think of the whole planet and our species. If we were truly intelligent would you expect obesity and waste in the west when a large part of our species is starving or struggling to get even a tenth of what we get. Truly intelligent / evolved species would have surely evened this out across the planet.

Ah I see. Well supermarkets deliver now.

Also, like I said, you don't actually have to eat food that's grown, you can eat things like pizza instead. If more people did it would help ease the burden on our farmers who are constantly battling to make sure our mountains are kept from being eroded.

joenobody

mfin wrote:

you don't actually have to eat food that's grown, you can eat things like pizza instead.

You know a pizza is largely made from things that are grown, right?

pblakeney

JoeNobody wrote:

mfin wrote:

you don't actually have to eat food that's grown, you can eat things like pizza instead.

You know a pizza is largely made from things that are grown, right?

Hook, line and sinker.

chris_bass

JoeNobody wrote:

mfin wrote:

you don't actually have to eat food that's grown, you can eat things like pizza instead.

You know a pizza is largely made from things that are grown, right?

Fake News

mfin

JoeNobody wrote:

mfin wrote:

you don't actually have to eat food that's grown, you can eat things like pizza instead.

You know a pizza is largely made from things that are grown, right?

I don't know if you are being argumentative or stupid here, pizzas are manufactured not grown.

If we ate more things that were manufactured and not grown then we it would address the issue that was brought up, going some way to eradicating the problem.

webboo

I once had an ice cream pizza in Germany.

lesfirth

PBlakeney wrote:

JoeNobody wrote:

mfin wrote:

you don't actually have to eat food that's grown, you can eat things like pizza instead.

You know a pizza is largely made from things that are grown, right?

Hook, line and sinker.

I just can not stop laughing.

trivial_poursuivant

Soylent Green for everyone.

mamba80

Given the amount of CO2 in the earths atmosphere right now, with no signs of us reducing it, i d not worry too much about adding to it by eating some red meat.

Wheelspinner

There's only 4 food groups:

- Fast Food
- Frozen Food
- Snack Food
- Restaurants.

Eat a balanced combination from those and you're all good.

earth

rjsterry wrote:

earth wrote:

I started growing vegetables in the garden a few years ago. I know through experience to grow them on any scale and of the quality people are accustomed to from the supermarket requires pest control. Otherwise they are eaten by slugs, snail, caterpillars, flies and whatever other miniature beast cares.

We already know bees are disappearing and a recent report says pollinators are down 75% in 30 years. The pesticides required to grow commercially are killing everything. Once there are no pollinators doing the job for free we will have a big problem.

It appears to me that the vegetarian/vegan diet is equally as unsustainable as a meat diet. Although cows don't care if they eat a bug in with their mouthful of grass. Farm livestock and you don't need pesticides.

But you do need feed, which has to be grown. If people weren't so terrified of GM, we could grow things that were more pest resistant and use less pesticides.

They don't use GM that way. They use it to make plants more able to tolerate pesticides and herbicides to kill weeds. Then they put even more pesticides and herbicides on them