Meat unsustainable?
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Even easier, Irish coffee has all 4 nutrient goups that a man needs: sugar, caffeine, fat and alcohol.Wheelspinner wrote:There's only 4 food groups:
- Fast Food
- Frozen Food
- Snack Food
- Restaurants.
Eat a balanced combination from those and you're all good."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Soon humans will colonise the moon and Mars. With the latter to be terraformed. Then we'll go out further into the solar system to mine for minerals and resources in the asteroid belt. I think that we could set up a farming colony on Ganymede (Jovian moon). Growing GM crops in massive agricultural domes with sunlight captured and reflected from huge orbiting mirrors.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0
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Have you been smoking the products from your indoor greenhouse?Mr Goo wrote:Soon humans will colonise the moon and Mars. With the latter to be terraformed. Then we'll go out further into the solar system to mine for minerals and resources in the asteroid belt. I think that we could set up a farming colony on Ganymede (Jovian moon). Growing GM crops in massive agricultural domes with sunlight captured and reflected from huge orbiting mirrors.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Mr Goo wrote:Soon humans will colonise the moon and Mars. With the latter to be terraformed. Then we'll go out further into the solar system to mine for minerals and resources in the asteroid belt. I think that we could set up a farming colony on Ganymede (Jovian moon). Growing GM crops in massive agricultural domes with sunlight captured and reflected from huge orbiting mirrors.
Not soon enough. We are decades away from the technology to do so and the problems back on earth are happening right now. Think we need to pull our heads out of our asses and stop pretending we live an a sci-fi movie.0 -
Trivial poursuivant wrote:Mr Goo wrote:Soon humans will colonise the moon and Mars. With the latter to be terraformed. Then we'll go out further into the solar system to mine for minerals and resources in the asteroid belt. I think that we could set up a farming colony on Ganymede (Jovian moon). Growing GM crops in massive agricultural domes with sunlight captured and reflected from huge orbiting mirrors.
Not soon enough. We are decades away from the technology to do so and the problems back on earth are happening right now. Think we need to pull our heads out of our asses and stop pretending we live an a sci-fi movie.
Dont worry about, we ll all be dead before these problems really start to bite, leave it to the next generation or 5 to sort out, mankind has been predicting the end is nigh for 1000s of years and we are still here.0 -
mamba80 wrote:Trivial poursuivant wrote:Mr Goo wrote:Soon humans will colonise the moon and Mars. With the latter to be terraformed. Then we'll go out further into the solar system to mine for minerals and resources in the asteroid belt. I think that we could set up a farming colony on Ganymede (Jovian moon). Growing GM crops in massive agricultural domes with sunlight captured and reflected from huge orbiting mirrors.
Not soon enough. We are decades away from the technology to do so and the problems back on earth are happening right now. Think we need to pull our heads out of our asses and stop pretending we live an a sci-fi movie.
Dont worry about, we ll all be dead before these problems really start to bite, leave it to the next generation or 5 to sort out, mankind has been predicting the end is nigh for 1000s of years and we are still here.
Not my problem guv! Great attitude.0 -
Mr Goo wrote:Soon humans will colonise the moon and Mars. With the latter to be terraformed. Then we'll go out further into the solar system to mine for minerals and resources in the asteroid belt. I think that we could set up a farming colony on Ganymede (Jovian moon). Growing GM crops in massive agricultural domes with sunlight captured and reflected from huge orbiting mirrors.
If we don't exhaust or compromise the resources that provide the means to do such a thing. Pie in the Sky stuff really (no pun intended).
It's all about moderation but the human race doesn't know moderation, it wants growth and consumerism.
The insatiable appetite for meat is fuelling rain forest destruction and the fishing of Plankton and Krill on an industrial scale is used to feed the fish and shrimp farms. It's gross exploitation of finite resources and wanton destruction of the very fabric in which we rely on for our survival.
However, the apathy towards most things humanitarian or environmental (a few posters in here display such apathy) is such that the crunch point has already happened. We are already seeing extremes in temperatures and weather conditions. It will get worse.
What we need is a major drought in the wheat producing nations including US, Europe and Russia and the same drought affecting the paddy fields in China simultaneously...
An intelligent parasite doesn't kill it's host.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Trivial poursuivant wrote:mamba80 wrote:Trivial poursuivant wrote:Mr Goo wrote:Soon humans will colonise the moon and Mars. With the latter to be terraformed. Then we'll go out further into the solar system to mine for minerals and resources in the asteroid belt. I think that we could set up a farming colony on Ganymede (Jovian moon). Growing GM crops in massive agricultural domes with sunlight captured and reflected from huge orbiting mirrors.
Not soon enough. We are decades away from the technology to do so and the problems back on earth are happening right now. Think we need to pull our heads out of our asses and stop pretending we live an a sci-fi movie.
Dont worry about, we ll all be dead before these problems really start to bite, leave it to the next generation or 5 to sort out, mankind has been predicting the end is nigh for 1000s of years and we are still here.
Not my problem guv! Great attitude.
I really wish it were different BUT its reality, we drive, we go on holiday, buy consumer goods of all types inc bicycles, heat r homes.... the list is endless and its ALL contributing to destroying the planet or rather our ability to live on it.
Pretending otherwise is delusional, we just are nt ready to alter our behaviour in any meaningful way and tbh until world leaders and corporations start to act on energy, pollution and plastics, nothing is going to change, unless you re naive enough to think growing some veg makes a blind bit of difference.0 -
Correct. A few well meaning but ultimately unrealistic or naive people will do nothing or offer nothing that will change anything. It's nice for them to think they've thought it through though.
If you fancy living out of a skip and recycling things like a womble then knock yourself out, you won't make any difference no matter how many friends you have who don't use deodorant.0 -
mfin wrote:Correct. A few well meaning but ultimately unrealistic or naive people will do nothing or offer nothing that will change anything. It's nice for them to think they've thought it through though.
If you fancy living out of a skip and recycling things like a womble then knock yourself out, you won't make any difference no matter how many friends you have who don't use deodorant.
If many people did it, it would have an impact. Many green areas were given up for food production during WW2.
We also do not use the existing resources well.
Now here's a thing. In the US, 'worm cast' is worth $20,000 per ton.
Worm cast is basically worm excrement. They use industrial composters to break down green and kitchen waste. It then gets put into wormery's. The 3 different types of worm than break the compost down.
95% of worm cast goes into the agricultural industry. The rest is for commercial use like for house plants. It comes in the form of a dry powder in a tea bag type of material. It's put into water, it dissolves and you water your plants with it.
Worm cast is extremely fertile.
The side effect is that it is a very practical use of waste but will they entertain the idea in the UK? No; and it is lucrative.
That's an example. VW (for all the recent criticism) are producing cars using only 6 different types of plastic - all recyclable.
But reeling off ad hoc examples of recycling and waste resource use simply underlines the lack any real collective interest globally. It's often voluntary, i'e out with any legislation.
I just wonder at what stage the big nations really sit up and put an emphasis on resource use , energy consumption and recycling. When Peking gets taken out by a flood? When LA gets hit by a Hurricane?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
I hope that the current crop of Tech giants and billionaires (except Branson, who's a complete tw4t) will push the boundaries of exploration in space. Thus enabling humans to colonise the inner rings first, then the Belt. I hope that they are the last of the billionaires and that they are the advent of a new psyche in the human race. Rather like the Star Trek universe, in doing stuff for the good of the race instead of corporate or personal gain.
Nobody needs to be a billionaire. Until the psyche of human race changes them we are f***ed.
I also heard recently that so long as humans stay on the planet, there will be finite ceiling to global economic growth due to the finite resources. Ergo corporate and personal wealth must be given up.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
If it was at all possible, Trump would put a man on the Moon tomorrow purely for deflection purposes. What you list may be possible but not for many generations, if we make it that far.Mr Goo wrote:I hope that the current crop of Tech giants and billionaires (except Branson, who's a complete tw4t) will push the boundaries of exploration in space. Thus enabling humans to colonise the inner rings first, then the Belt. I hope that they are the last of the billionaires and that they are the advent of a new psyche in the human race. Rather like the Star Trek universe, in doing stuff for the good of the race instead of corporate or personal gain.
Nobody needs to be a billionaire. Until the psyche of human race changes them we are f***ed.
I also heard recently that so long as humans stay on the planet, there will be finite ceiling to global economic growth due to the finite resources. Ergo corporate and personal wealth must be given up.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I can’t make a difference on my own so I won’t bother. THIS is the reason why we are where we are already.
People readily say they want to help but anything that upsets their cost little lifestyle can get to f@ck! And then to say sorry that’s just reality is insulting to future generations who will inherit the mess. Sorry kids. We really wanted to try but I’m not prepared to give up my creature comforts for your clean air and water.0 -
Mr Goo wrote:I hope that the current crop of Tech giants and billionaires (except Branson, who's a complete tw4t) will push the boundaries of exploration in space. Thus enabling humans to colonise the inner rings first, then the Belt. I hope that they are the last of the billionaires and that they are the advent of a new psyche in the human race. Rather like the Star Trek universe, in doing stuff for the good of the race instead of corporate or personal gain.
Nobody needs to be a billionaire. Until the psyche of human race changes them we are f***ed.
I also heard recently that so long as humans stay on the planet, there will be finite ceiling to global economic growth due to the finite resources. Ergo corporate and personal wealth must be given up.
Why when we have a perfectly good orb to live on?
All the other planets in our solar system are ostensibly inhospitable. Planets outwith our solar system are a long way away and way beyond our current technical abilities. The New Horizons space craft took 10 years to travel 3 million miles to Pluto and we're going to shift half the population to another planet?
'Terraformed'?! If people think that the fabric of life and it's inherent interdependency can easily be replicated on another planet, they are in sci-fi, LSD fuelled cuckoo land.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Trivial poursuivant wrote:I can’t make a difference on my own so I won’t bother. THIS is the reason why we are where we are already.
People readily say they want to help but anything that upsets their cost little lifestyle can get to f@ck! And then to say sorry that’s just reality is insulting to future generations who will inherit the mess. Sorry kids. We really wanted to try but I’m not prepared to give up my creature comforts for your clean air and water.
You mis-understand what i am saying.
I care for the future of the planet BUT unless Governments start taking some very serious action and i dont mean the p1ss weak Paris Accord but real reductions in CO2 plus carbon capture and most importantly fund how we can remove CO2 from the earths atmosphere, then the tiny scale actions we can take as individuals is utterly pointless, think about that as you climb Sa Colabra at next springs Mallorcan holiday.
tbh we ve prob already reached a tipping point with regard to the Polar Ice cap which will almost certainly disappear in our life time.0 -
mamba80 wrote:Trivial poursuivant wrote:I can’t make a difference on my own so I won’t bother. THIS is the reason why we are where we are already.
People readily say they want to help but anything that upsets their cost little lifestyle can get to f@ck! And then to say sorry that’s just reality is insulting to future generations who will inherit the mess. Sorry kids. We really wanted to try but I’m not prepared to give up my creature comforts for your clean air and water.
You mis-understand what i am saying.
I care for the future of the planet BUT unless Governments start taking some very serious action and i dont mean the p1ss weak Paris Accord but real reductions in CO2 plus carbon capture and most importantly fund how we can remove CO2 from the earths atmosphere, then the tiny scale actions we can take as individuals is utterly pointless, think about that as you climb Sa Colabra at next springs Mallorcan holiday.
tbh we ve prob already reached a tipping point with regard to the Polar Ice cap which will almost certainly disappear in our life time.
Ah, but IF everybody changed their behaviour, problems could be solved, that's the argument. *The only problem being significant numbers of people don't and won't, so broadly these kind of things are bôllocks arguments, but, it makes people feel better when they feel they are doing their bit and that they've thought about things.
If you put more food in the bin it helps, as there's more chance one of the wombles will pull it out and eat it, if we all did that, more wombles would know about it, and more would find it. Do your bit.0 -
mfin wrote:mamba80 wrote:Trivial poursuivant wrote:I can’t make a difference on my own so I won’t bother. THIS is the reason why we are where we are already.
People readily say they want to help but anything that upsets their cost little lifestyle can get to f@ck! And then to say sorry that’s just reality is insulting to future generations who will inherit the mess. Sorry kids. We really wanted to try but I’m not prepared to give up my creature comforts for your clean air and water.
You mis-understand what i am saying.
I care for the future of the planet BUT unless Governments start taking some very serious action and i dont mean the p1ss weak Paris Accord but real reductions in CO2 plus carbon capture and most importantly fund how we can remove CO2 from the earths atmosphere, then the tiny scale actions we can take as individuals is utterly pointless, think about that as you climb Sa Colabra at next springs Mallorcan holiday.
tbh we ve prob already reached a tipping point with regard to the Polar Ice cap which will almost certainly disappear in our life time.
Ah, but IF everybody changed their behaviour, problems could be solved, that's the argument. *The only problem being significant numbers of people don't and won't, so broadly these kind of things are bôllocks arguments, but, it makes people feel better when they feel they are doing their bit and that they've thought about things.
If you put more food in the bin it helps, as there's more chance one of the wombles will pull it out and eat it, if we all did that, more wombles would know about it, and more would find it. Do your bit.
No you r wrong, My Nan used to knit Clangers and Wombles, she went mad and died many years ago, this is why you dont see Wombles about anymore (the Clangers planet died after they ate all the soup, there is a lesson for us), like the ice cap, they are dying off and unless more research is put into rising the dead, this sorry situation will continue.
Aside, you ve also got to convince at least 1/2 the worlds population who live in abject poverty to stop wanting iphones, food and heat.0 -
What the both of you are talking about is top down or bottom up? Shouldn't we adopt a more holistic approach?
A critical mass of people putting enough pressure on governments to tackle the issue and governments willing to put the legislation in to enforce it.
The next generation is far more clued up about the environment than we are.
Our recycling organisation used to give talk to schools about the benefits of recycling. In one school I visited, they made electricity from a combined small solar panel and a mini wind turbine. 1 'unit' per 2 pupils, so a lot of effort and money in it. That was a Primary 7 class.
It was often hard to gauge the level of awareness that they were at. Often way above our expectations.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Wonder were the graph will go next? :roll:0 -
Pinno wrote:What the both of you are talking about is top down or bottom up? Shouldn't we adopt a more holistic approach?
A critical mass of people putting enough pressure on governments to tackle the issue and governments willing to put the legislation in to enforce it.
The next generation is far more clued up about the environment than we are.
Our recycling organisation used to give talk to schools about the benefits of recycling. In one school I visited, they made electricity from a combined small solar panel and a mini wind turbine. 1 'unit' per 2 pupils, so a lot of effort and money in it. That was a Primary 7 class.
It was often hard to gauge the level of awareness that they were at. Often way above our expectations.
Given that Trump got elected as POTUS and 51% of us voted to leave the EU, i d question whether there is any hope what so ever.
a quick look down a M way or A road verge after grass cutting and you ll see how much we care about the environment.
I m in my 50's, at primary school we built a small wind turbine that powered a light, we were told about the harm plastics and glass bottles did when thrown in to the hedge as mice and voles crawled in side and couldnt get out.
change needs to be at governmental level, my daughter cares about the Planet as you say, she also loves her Iphone and staying warm on her frequent lay ins!
i joined Green peace many years ago, they lobby gov's ... me walking instead of taking the car makes zero difference.
there wont be anyone left to draw a new graph.0 -
There wont be anyone left to draw a new graph.
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http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/10/ ... rks-uproar
By extrapolating from countries that experienced more moderate fertility decline, Goodkind contends that birth-planning policies implemented after 1970 avoided adding between 360 million and 520 million people to China’s population. Because the momentum from that decline will continue into later generations, he suggests, the total avoided population could approach 1 billion by 2060.
Given Moonbiker's graph above, is China's One Child policy in force between 1970 and 2016 to be viewed as barbaric or visionary?0 -
The populations in affluent Western European countries is stable and in some cases (Italy for example), declining.
But that is not the problem. The man in Manilla who lives on a jetty made from plastic bottles and drums with his 7 kids has a carbon footprint that is tiny compared to the bloke sat in his living room, with his central heating on, munching on some exotic food stuff flown in from far away, watching the telly with his 2 kids tucked up in bed, (tryping bollox on the net), has a huge environmental footprint.
So it's not the lack of resource distribution that is the problem with populations, it's the obscene imbalance.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
mamba80 wrote:
Given that Trump got elected as POTUS and 51% of us voted to leave the EU, i d question whether there is any hope what so ever.Pinno wrote:A critical mass of people putting enough pressure on governments to tackle the issue and governments willing to put the legislation in to enforce it.
This answer is dead on, in the USA they've elected a climate change denying fuckwit. That fuckwit was popular enough to become president and people thought he was capable of doing the job. Good luck getting 'a mass of people to put enough pressure on governments' on anything like this.
Same in the UK, people voted for Brexit without any clue of what it would mean, millions voting without even the slightest basic working knowledge of the EU but somehow they had strong opinions. Incredible. Dumbed down stuff works on the dumb.
The ways to tackle the problem will come from the top down.0 -
Mr Goo wrote:Soon humans will colonise the moon and Mars. With the latter to be terraformed. Then we'll go out further into the solar system to mine for minerals and resources in the asteroid belt. I think that we could set up a farming colony on Ganymede (Jovian moon). Growing GM crops in massive agricultural domes with sunlight captured and reflected from huge orbiting mirrors.
The thing about Mars is it has no magnetic field around it. Earth does due to having an iron core. The magnetic field blocks solar radiation. The are at least 3 problems I can see from having no magnetic field. You get blasted with solar radiation, like having no ozone layer only much worse. Solar radiation strips a planet of any atmosphere so you can't breathe. With no atmosphere there is nothing to burn up meteors. I can't imagine life in a dome would work especially when a meteor could put a hole in it at any time.0 -
OT, but a relation of mine who works a lot in China is scared for the place, as the policy has led to a massive imbalance of males/females (millions more males than females), and his worry is that if China falters economically it will be the perfect storm for the next Chinese revolution, as there will be millions of men with no family stake in the future, and everything to gain from overturning the status quo.Ballysmate wrote:Given Moonbiker's graph above, is China's One Child policy in force between 1970 and 2016 to be viewed as barbaric or visionary?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-china- ... V7201501210 -
briantrumpet wrote:
OT, but a relation of mine who works a lot in China is scared for the place, as the policy has led to a massive imbalance of males/females (millions more males than females), and his worry is that if China falters economically it will be the perfect storm for the next Chinese revolution, as there will be millions of men with no family stake in the future, and everything to gain from overturning the status quo.Ballysmate wrote:Given Moonbiker's graph above, is China's One Child policy in force between 1970 and 2016 to be viewed as barbaric or visionary?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-china- ... V720150121
You could argue the toss that this imbalance assures the number of military personnel. So long as the 'personnel' tow the line, then the status quo will be maintained. And they have a huge army.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
earth wrote:Mr Goo wrote:Soon humans will colonise the moon and Mars. With the latter to be terraformed. Then we'll go out further into the solar system to mine for minerals and resources in the asteroid belt. I think that we could set up a farming colony on Ganymede (Jovian moon). Growing GM crops in massive agricultural domes with sunlight captured and reflected from huge orbiting mirrors.
The thing about Mars is it has no magnetic field around it. Earth does due to having an iron core. The magnetic field blocks solar radiation. The are at least 3 problems I can see from having no magnetic field. You get blasted with solar radiation, like having no ozone layer only much worse. Solar radiation strips a planet of any atmosphere so you can't breathe. With no atmosphere there is nothing to burn up meteors. I can't imagine life in a dome would work especially when a meteor could put a hole in it at any time.
Moving people en masse to other planets is so fictional that it is in the realms of fantasy. The motive and practicalities of doing such a thing is deeply flawed and i'm not sure it's worth arguing with the fringe. They can be chucked in the pot along with religious fanatics and fundamentalists and the conspiracy theory brigade.
That doesn't make me a Luddite, it makes me a realist, an environmentalist and a humanist. Except the humanist bit of me comes dead last.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Pinno wrote:earth wrote:Mr Goo wrote:Soon humans will colonise the moon and Mars. With the latter to be terraformed. Then we'll go out further into the solar system to mine for minerals and resources in the asteroid belt. I think that we could set up a farming colony on Ganymede (Jovian moon). Growing GM crops in massive agricultural domes with sunlight captured and reflected from huge orbiting mirrors.
The thing about Mars is it has no magnetic field around it. Earth does due to having an iron core. The magnetic field blocks solar radiation. The are at least 3 problems I can see from having no magnetic field. You get blasted with solar radiation, like having no ozone layer only much worse. Solar radiation strips a planet of any atmosphere so you can't breathe. With no atmosphere there is nothing to burn up meteors. I can't imagine life in a dome would work especially when a meteor could put a hole in it at any time.
Moving people en masse to other planets is so fictional that it is in the realms of fantasy. The motive and practicalities of doing such a thing is deeply flawed and i'm not sure it's worth arguing with the fringe. They can be chucked in the pot along with religious fanatics and fundamentalists and the conspiracy theory brigade.
That doesn't make me a Luddite, it makes me a realist, an environmentalist and a humanist. Except the humanist bit of me comes dead last.
This explains the Fermi paradox. There are just so many things that need to go right for life to exist or make a planet habitable. Right sized sun, right sized planet, right geological make up, right orbit, right amount of water, right neighbouring planets, plus a shed load of luck in avoiding destruction from another planet. The chances of finding another planet we can survive on - never mind thrive on is so minute even in a galaxy full of billions of star systems. We are an absolute fluke to exist. We should consider this before we wreck what we have.0
