What do you do when a car passes you very close?

milemuncher1

I tried a new rear light out, a couple of years ago ( I’ve still got it / use it ) it’s a small, but bright triangular light, with a little figure of a bike on it. I didn’t think it could possibly have any effect, other than being a light. I got that wrong. The fact it’s a flashing red triangle, seems to do something to the drivers mind, on a subconscious level. If I’m riding a long distance with it working, the majority of drivers give me more room, than I’d typically expect them to, and even the drivers who are the sort to give me adequate room anyway, give me even more room. It’s so effective, that I know almost instantly if it’s run out of charge, without having to look. I can’t remember how much it was, but it’s the best ( however much ) I’ve spent in recent years, on a piece of bike kit.

defever

Tangled Metal wrote:

I have a theory that there's a hierarchy of consideration. By that I mean drivers will be more considerate with young children, probably dogs in trailers, attractive women (blondes more so) and bottom of the heap is hi-viz wearing / camera & bright light carrying male in commuting kit. If you're one of the lowest of the low in that list then close pass is possibly least of your worries.

Part of me wishes that humanity isn't as corrupt as that but another part of me shouts "that's so true!". Years before I got into regular cycling and admittedly a newly qualified driver in early 20s, I used to get annoyed at hi-vis, flash light primary position riders, just because they were such an eyesore. I grew out of that mentality and now that I cycle more than I drive, I can see completely why hi-vis, flash lights and primary position are all vital.

Milemuncher1 wrote:

I tried a new rear light out, a couple of years ago ( I’ve still got it / use it ) it’s a small, but bright triangular light, with a little figure of a bike on it.

You mentioned this on another thread I started about bike lights (Bike lights for commuting - minefield!!). It's called Brainy Bike Lights. It sells front and rear lights for £19.99 each on their website. I think the concept is quite clever and different purpose from other bike lights. It's a neat kit, I think.

slowbike

Tangled Metal wrote:

Forget cameras for changing behavior of drivers, you should tow a child trailer. It amazed me the first time I took the trailer out with an occupant. Almost all the cars moved so far away from us we never felt them passing.

I wish my experiences were the same - a good while ago I took Little Slowbike to a gathering in a local village hall - it was about 4 miles - dry, warm - so I popped him in the bike trailer for the country lane ride - deliberately going on even quieter roads so I could avoid the fairly busy B road - was fine on the way, but on the way back, on the single track lane - with my wife just behind me - a car coming towards me wouldn't wait and drove at me. The blithering idiot (rather than swear - which is what I did at the time, at the top of my voice - which is rather loud) had 2 (I assume grand)children in the back. It shocked me, my wife and the family of walkers just up the road at how dangerous and impatient this idiot had been.
If I didn't have the trailer I would've chased him, I would've dragged him out the car and I would've hit him a few times - before taking his keys and handing them into the nearest police station - the incident makes my blood boil even now.

awavey

defever wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

I have a theory that there's a hierarchy of consideration. By that I mean drivers will be more considerate with young children, probably dogs in trailers, attractive women (blondes more so) and bottom of the heap is hi-viz wearing / camera & bright light carrying male in commuting kit. If you're one of the lowest of the low in that list then close pass is possibly least of your worries.

Part of me wishes that humanity isn't as corrupt as that but another part of me shouts "that's so true!".

I can see how it comes to feel like that,and ok Im not blonde and Ive no idea how attractive my backside looks pedaling on a bike but Ive never felt drivers give me more room just because Im a woman riding a bike.

and then the other week I wore a pink top because it was a Breast Cancer charity week that I wanted to show I was supporting.Now I dont normally wear pink cycling tops because it bugs me the whole gender thing for women cyclists we have to put up with that whole just shrink and pink things, but my god the difference, there were people literally driving on the other side of the road giving me a whole lane to myself to overtake me which had never happened before...sadly that impact only lasted that one day though as even though I wore the same top the next day, they were back to trying to knock me off again with inches to spare.

So I came to conclude if you looked like you knew what you were doing on a bike you were given less wobble space, but then just this week I saw an old guy on a bike, who I think I could probably have walked quicker than he was cycling, and a 4x4 nearly knocked him off as they tried to squeeze through ahead of a pedestrian island and speed bump :shock: . But they were being equal opportunity aerosols to everyone on the road, so I dont think humanity is that corrupt, its just there are alot of people who probably shouldnt be allowed to drive.

drhaggis

Just today I met a lovely gentleman driving a pearl white Honda Accord Tourer (the estate version). This lovely man thought that me riding on primary, at 24mph (on a 20mph zone), with oncoming traffic, was an invitation to pass. Thankfully, he backed off, so I went even more primary. Besides, there was a red light ahead.

Anyway, it turns out that the next 1/4 mile creeps up at 4%, so I wouldn't be breaking the speed limit (but I'm close). It's a bit twisty, and bumpy just outside the dooming zone. This gentleman thought that waiting 10s to overtake a cyclist at 17mph was unacceptable, even with, again, oncoming traffic. He was inches from knocking my handlebar, FFS. What an "aerosol".

milemuncher1

DrHaggis wrote:

Just today I met a lovely gentleman driving a pearl white Honda Accord Tourer (the estate version). This lovely man thought that me riding on primary, at 24mph (on a 20mph zone), with oncoming traffic, was an invitation to pass. Thankfully, he backed off, so I went even more primary. Besides, there was a red light ahead.

Anyway, it turns out that the next 1/4 mile creeps up at 4%, so I wouldn't be breaking the speed limit (but I'm close). It's a bit twisty, and bumpy just outside the dooming zone. This gentleman thought that waiting 10s to overtake a cyclist at 17mph was unacceptable, even with, again, oncoming traffic. He was inches from knocking my handlebar, FFS. What an "aerosol".

*‘Old sparky’*is the answer.

* a piece of smashed up spark plug ceramic, flicked into the rear screen* ( so I’ve been told ).

Brakeless

Milemuncher1 wrote:

DrHaggis wrote:

Just today I met a lovely gentleman driving a pearl white Honda Accord Tourer (the estate version). This lovely man thought that me riding on primary, at 24mph (on a 20mph zone), with oncoming traffic, was an invitation to pass. Thankfully, he backed off, so I went even more primary. Besides, there was a red light ahead.

Anyway, it turns out that the next 1/4 mile creeps up at 4%, so I wouldn't be breaking the speed limit (but I'm close). It's a bit twisty, and bumpy just outside the dooming zone. This gentleman thought that waiting 10s to overtake a cyclist at 17mph was unacceptable, even with, again, oncoming traffic. He was inches from knocking my handlebar, FFS. What an "aerosol".

*‘Old sparky’*is the answer.

* a piece of smashed up spark plug ceramic, flicked into the rear screen* ( so I’ve been told ).

Cause we all carry that in our jersey pockets :roll: :roll:

the_cyclist_of_catan

Last night a car passed me so close he hit me, the tosser.

I took the camera footage straight round to the police.

It's a good job that I live in the West Midlands, where - thanks to a well-publicised campaign - drivers always give cyclists the recommended 1.5m of width.

I was lucky - his wing mirror gave my hand on the handlebars a proper clout, but somehow I stayed on and upright.

Now he needs to be lucky, and have the police track him down and have a word. Because if they won't, I will - probablŷ with a house brick.

defever

I had a reality check yesterday.

I happened to drive almost 100miles round trip yesterday, before rush hour in the morning and bang on rush hour in the evening.

Morning journey was fine, hardly any cars on motorway, A roads and little residential roads.

The rush hour (mind, being Friday, too) on the other hand was chaotic. Tailgating, not letting other car merge into lane, queue jumping, undertaking lorries, changing lane without indication, on the phone, clearly speeding, full beam, aggressive and reckless driving... all sorts of illegal, dangerous and down right stupid manoeuvres.

If drivers cannot behave nicely amongst each other, no wonder cyclists are not getting the respect. Having said this, as The Cyclist of Catan commented, the police is educating the drivers regarding how to overtake cyclists so not all hope is lost.

It's just that we may have to wait for very long time to spread Dutch attitude towards cycling in the UK. At least its not as bad as in the States.

defever

Slowbike wrote:

...if it was intentional then it may be worth reporting - if it was unintentional then how is the driver going to learn that it's unacceptable?
I usually just shout "Oi" and push out using my right hand - which they might see if they're looking in their mirrors - the following vehicle will see though and 9/10 times I get more space from them. That's usually the end of the matter and I'll just carry on riding.

I happened to do something simlar to this suggestion yesterday during the "school run" hour in mid-afternoon. A hatchback pulled in from the side road to the main road I was cycling, overtook me very close ("I would have touched the wing mirror" close), and then to stop abruptly because the car in front was stationary and indicating right to go into another side road.

I skidded a bit and had to squeeze (undertaking) through the two cars. Whilst I passed the close pass hatchback, I put my right hand out to signal how close the pass was. I carried on, expecting the hatchback to catch me up further down the road.

When it did, it was literally on the other side of the road, giving maximum space! And the subsequent few cars also did the same!

So in this occasion, it worked! I wouldn't do it all the time, or stop to chat to a close pass driver, but I think I'm alot more aware and adopted assertive and anticipatory attitude when cycling.

Happy cycling everyone!

shylocuk

What do I do? Nothing, bit of a mutter under my breath but nothing more. You see to much of youtube warriors ending up getting a clout, I'm not into that, I want to get home in one piece, ride assertively and be courteous..

sgt.pepper

Tangled Metal wrote:

Forget cameras for changing behavior of drivers, you should tow a child trailer. It amazed me the first time I took the trailer out with an occupant. Almost all the cars moved so far away from us we never felt them passing. In some cases the cars couldn't physically move further away from us without driving on the grass verge. The closest pass was what I estimated at the recommended 1.5m. That Rotterdam close passing a child trailer at the recommended minimum gap was a real b'stard. Evil!

I have a theory that there's a hierarchy of consideration. By that I mean drivers will be more considerate with young children, probably dogs in trailers, attractive women (blondes more so) and bottom of the heap is hi-viz wearing / camera & bright light carrying male in commuting kit. If you're one of the lowest of the low in that list then close pass is possibly least of your worries.

This is literally true - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17064655

Cyclists without helmets get a wider birth, as do women - it follows that child-seats get the largest. I think it's crazy to ride on public roads with a child seat, cringed when I saw a guy with his kid on the back the other day, weaving between lorries.

Personally I try to avoid having to be 'passed' at all, will try stick to routes and times where the traffic is moving slower than I am, or there is enough space to avoid being on the road. Also found that keeping my rear light on has helped flag my existence to an increasing amount of drivers as well.

One of the main commuter routes here shares with an 100km/h stretch of road - slow enough at rush hour, but I find it crazy that cyclists share that road outside of peak hours - regularly see cars cutting the blind corners on that route.

https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-41.2313 ... 840!8i1920

tangled_metal

Well I getting a recumbent soon, hopefully. Fully intend to commute on it when I get the hang of riding it.

"You can't ride a recumbent, nobody will see you!"

Anecdotally ppl actually see and register recumbents more than anything. It's unusual you see. So I'm guessing by actually seeing me they'll give me more room. Apparently that's the experience of regular recumbent users.

I got a lezyne laser guide light. Completely unscientific but it appears to reduce close passes a little. It really can't be the two thin red laser lines either side of me. Perhaps the 250 lumens rear LEDs on a daylight, random dazzle setting could have a bearing though. My theory is they're so dazzled they can't see how close they're passing so they give me more space. If they can see exactly where I am on the road they can go closer. It's about not allowing them to decide a narrow margin of error is safe for them to avoid getting into trouble by hitting you. If they makes sense.

I realised this when two idiots on expensive road bikes stopped on the side of the road for a mechanical. They left their daylight equivalent front lights on and since they were facing traffic I couldn't see anything but those lights as a passed. I realised once my vision came back a little bit along the road past them that I'd been driving across the centre of the road. Whilst I do dazzle a little with my rear light you can still see not like those 1000 lumen plus front lights.

defever

Sgt. Pepper & Tangled Metal,

Very fascinating observations; especially when your observations were actually experimented scientifically! I followed the link to briefly read the research paper you mentioned:

Walker, I. (2007) Drivers overtaking bicyclists: Objective data on the effects of
riding position, helmet use, vehicle type and apparent gender. Accident Analysis & Prevention, 39 (2) : 417-425.
(free text link above in Sgt. Pepper's post)

Summary:
A naturalistic experiment used an instrumented bicycle to gather proximity data from overtaking motorists. The relationship between rider position and overtaking proximity was the opposite to that generally believed, such that the further the rider was from the edge of the road, the closer vehicles passed. Additionally, wearing a bicycle helmet led to traffic getting significantly closer when overtaking. Professional drivers of large vehicles were particularly likely to leave narrow safety margins. Finally, when the (male) experimenter wore a long wig, so that he appeared female from behind, drivers left more space when passing. Overall, the results demonstrate that motorists exhibit behavioural sensitivity to aspects of a bicyclist's appearance during an encounter. In the light of previous research on drivers' attitudes to bicyclists, we suggest drivers approaching a bicyclist use physical appearance to judge the specific likelihood of the rider behaving predictably and alter their overtaking accordingly. However, the extent to which a bicyclist's moment-to-moment behaviour can be inferred from their appearance is questionable, and so the tendency for drivers to alter their passing proximity based on this appearance probably has implications for accident probability.

Basically, the author of the paper self-experimented using his own bike (Trek hybrid bike) and attached some temperature-sensor device to measure the distance between him and overtaking vehicle. He "rode 320 km at various times of day between 07:00 and 18:00 in May and June 2006 within the English cities of Salisbury and Bristol wearing everyday clothing of shirt and trousers."

He even wore a wig to try to simulate a female cyclist! What a practical scientist (or maybe that was his second hobby?!)!

Although this was done nearly 12 yrs ago, there seem to be a lot of more recent scientific research around the topic; I never knew things like this would be published in academic journals!

Thanks for sharing and happy cycling!

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Sounds like I need to use today's £10 off a £50+ order at Amazon to buy a long-haired wig, bike baby carrier and an aerodynamically shaped baby doll! :twisted:

tangled_metal

Well you could spend lots on cameras pointing everywhere then send the footage to the police. I don't really see that working out that well neither. At least anecdotally ppl have experienced a benefit when with their sprog in a trailer or child seat. Anecdotally I've heard fewer cases of going to the police with footage affecting close passes

slowbike

I've had a car drive AT me whilst towing a kiddy trailer - with my 6 month old son in it ... on a single track country lane with passing places that isn't a road from/to anywhere.

I've had success with the only footage I've reported to the police - the owner had a letter sent to them ...

I've got the Fly6 clone from Aldi which I keep on my commute bike - low maintenance (so far) and I'm not into posting on youtube or reporting every slight transgression.

DeVlaeminck

I tend to ignore it or gesture, not 2 fingers just an Italian style gesticulation with a raised palm. If they are really close and I'm not in a great mood I'll shout abuse and I have chased a few down and asked what the f*** they are doing or if the window is open I've squirted water on them but that is rare.

Only once had a face to face road rage style confrontation where he got out and I got off and to be fair I banged his car as he was driving into me and I was making him aware before he knocked me off - when I explained that he was apologetic - just as well as he was bigger and younger than me! That was years ago too.

homers_double

shylocuk wrote:

What do I do? Nothing, bit of a mutter under my breath but nothing more.

Pretty much this /\.

wolfsbane2k

What do I do?
If it's "just" a close pass, Zen out; if a very close pass, I've been known to screech like a hyena might with their balls stuck in a vice.

Then press the lap button on the garmin. Enjoy the rest of the ride.
Throw the camera footage into the cloud overnight, with the reg # stored.
At the end of each week, send an email to the Hampshire police with a list of reg #, location, & link to vid. Takes me about 30 mins each week.

Why?
Because, like mentioned elsewhere, if the police don't think it's happening, they won't spend any resource in dealing with it. The Hampshire road policing team specifically asked some months ago for each report to be reported, and it just takes too damn log to do each one daily on 101.

Has anything been done?
Sweet FA, as far as I can tell - I've had numerous letters from the head of Hampshire road police unit.... telling me to they are doing nothing further - within the 14 day period that they could have sent the letter to the vehicle owner instead

Yet I continue doing it. It gives me stats to beat the council and the police with, and it does show repeat offenders, which I can then formally complain to the cops about for not following their own process.

You have to use the process, to complain about the process and get systematic changes.

neeb

When I was living in London and commuting 15 years ago I had one of these.

I've still got it and would use it again of I was commuting regularly. I'm amazed that more people don't, they've been around for decades but you hardly ever see/hear them.

It's pressurised with a pump and emits a noise like an HGV horn.. The look on drivers' faces can be a picture, they are never expecting it.. But the great thing is that within the twisted logic of road behaviour from a motorist's perspective, it's "acceptable". Cars hoot at each other all of the time to express annoyance at minor infractions, so the worst response it's likely to elicit is a honk in return. It advertises the bad behaviour of the driver to other road users and is a great outlet for righteous frustration. And because there are only a few peeps in the bottle you tend to save it for when it's really justified.

tonysj

I had some kn*b in a red Merc today who insisted on blasting his horn as he passed me and 3 other friends cycling in a built up area. I gave him the most friendly arm wave I could as if he was a close friend.
That tends to pi*s them off even more. He obviously Owns that stretch of the road, or so he thinks....

darkhairedlord

It's not the passing that's the problem, it's coming alongside and staying there. Then closing the gap when passing a parked car or street furniture.

sgt.pepper

TonySJ wrote:

I had some kn*b in a red Merc today who insisted on blasting his horn as he passed me and 3 other friends cycling in a built up area. I gave him the most friendly arm wave I could as if he was a close friend.
That tends to pi*s them off even more. He obviously Owns that stretch of the road, or so he thinks....

Sometimes I find the smile and thumbs up works like a charm as well