What do you do when a car passes you very close?
Comments
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Tangled Metal wrote:What do you do when a car passes you very close?
Carry on and enjoy the rest of my ride!
If it's so close the hairs on my arm get brushed by a wing mirror then I rant away to myself for the next ten minutes and find I've got some strava PRs or 2nds. So overall I get over it.
Think of it this way. You didn't get hit! If you spend your time thinking about close passes you could end up stressing out over it. You can't change the event so move on.
BTW you'll get no redress by official avenues and illegal ones could get you into trouble. Just think of evil ways to get your own back and chuckle to yourself at how vindictive you could be! That thought has brought a smile to my face already.
Two points to take issue on ..
First - think yourself lucky you didn't get hit ... Really? You're just going to be a victim ... sit in the corner quietly and get on with life ... there's a good fellow ...
I disagree with that approach - if it was intentional then it may be worth reporting - if it was unintentional then how is the driver going to learn that it's unacceptable?
I usually just shout "Oi" and push out using my right hand - which they might see if they're looking in their mirrors - the following vehicle will see though and 9/10 times I get more space from them. That's usually the end of the matter and I'll just carry on riding.
Second - you'll get no redress by official avenues ... well - it seems to be a bit hit & miss - depends on the area, what priorities they've got and who you get. If you're after a personal appology by the driver - forget it - however, if you're after the Police taking some action over it - then, if you don't report it, they can't do anything about it.
So far I've reported one incident (see other posts) via OperationCrackdown.org (sussex police), with a snip of video and they've sent the registered keeper a letter - which is all I was after really as it wasn't an agressive pass - just too flippin close.
The problem as I see it, of doing it without video is that it becomes your word against the drivers word and only multiple reports of bad driving will hold any weight. Not that I'm suggesting everyone becomes a youtube road warrior - far from it - just the cost of a small camera isn't huge these days - so providing it shows enough detail and is easy enough to charge (and you don't have to constantly wipe the card) then it seems a bit of a no-brainer.
There isn't one answer for what to do when a car passes you very close. Because it depends on the situation - if it's someone I know then I'll likely confront them - I've done that to a colleague who thought it appropriate to tailgate me. If you're on your own and it's a white van with lads in then it may be worth keeping your mouth shut as any sign of displeasure may make them stop and "have it out with you". If you do react you need to consider get outs - what are you going to do if the driver does become aggressive? Can you get away easily - less of an issue in town where there's usually loads of roads and you can turn off - more an issue where it's a long road with no alternatives and without the right tyres you can't go offroading!0 -
The attitude of not letting a close pass take up a lot of your time / attention / thoughts is nothing like being a victim. You didn't get hit, does it help you to obsess about it? Does it really help reporting it in most cases?
Slowbike reported it through a police scheme set up with no doubt specific aims which possibly tied in with what was being reported. Hence the letter which is possibly the only thing they could have done. To the best of my knowledge the police in my area don't have those sorts of schemes in place. I believe they b don't have much interest in cyclist safety other than putting up signs showing a 1.5m gap, no doubt because the government found them some extra cash or the council did.
My personal view is a letter is unlikely to change behaviour. I'm unlikely to be taken seriously by the police so the letter isn't going to happen anyway. So I choose the best option to not being a victim. I ride defensively to take as much control over my safety when on a bike as possible and I just move on after close passes. I don't waste my time on it preferring to enjoy the majority of my time on the bike which to put it bluntly has very few incidences of concern regarding interaction with motorists.
That IMHO isn't being a victim but moving on and enjoying being on my bike. I do actually enjoy it you know. The few incidents of concern I live on from quickly because of my enjoyment on the bike. Motorists don't control my time or thoughts or time in any significant way.
Is that being a victim? I don't think it is.0 -
Had a nasty one this morning, clearly deliberate skimmed me with his wing mirror a couple of inches from my hand. only a few yards from where the road widens to 3 lanes for a set of lights and there were cars sat at the lights. I yelled and waved my arm and he slammed his brakes on and started f'ing and blinding at me. He was quite obviously looking for trouble and for a moment I considered stopping and giving it to him. Probably just as well I didn't, some people are just dangerous lunatics.0
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you're right - there's no point obessing about it - it's unlikely that a close pass was personal - to most drivers, cyclists are just another obstacle to get past.Tangled Metal wrote:The attitude of not letting a close pass take up a lot of your time / attention / thoughts is nothing like being a victim. You didn't get hit, does it help you to obsess about it? Does it really help reporting it in most cases?
However ....
If the close pass isn't deliberate - how do we get the driver to be more considerate next time? Because if it wasn't deliberate, then chances are they didn't realise they were passing too close or in a dangerous way. If you don't draw their attention to it in someway shape or form then they're never going to know they passed too close - and if it's not just a one off due to circumstances then they'll do it again and again. At some point there will be a collision and a rider will get hurt. What harm does it do to draw the drivers attention to the matter?
As for reporting it - the website was set up to report anti-social driving - be that speeding, using mobile phone or just about anything - they do have "Close pass of a cyclist" as one of the reportable incidents. IMHO, reports should be restricted to the exceptional incidents - which is why, despaite having dozens of "close passes" I've only reported the one where I could've moved my elbow out to touch the car - and then only because I had video evidence to back up my report.
If the pass was deliberate then even more reason to report it to the police - if it was really agressive & dangerous and the police aren't interested then I'd have no quarms in reporting it to the police commisioner and/or local MP and/or local press. Using a vehicle to intimidate a cyclist is bullying and I don't tollerate bullies.
Reporting it isn't obessing about it - it's just reporting it. Something may be done - or it may not - but at least you've done something to try and prevent it happening again.0 -
Tangled Metal wrote:
...Think of it this way. You didn't get hit! If you spend your time thinking about close passes you could end up stressing out over it. You can't change the event so move on.
I can not accept this. Some drivers actually think they can pass as close as they like and so long as they don't hit you that is perfectly ok. They are more bothered about damaging their paintwork than possibly knocking you off the bike and under their wheels.
If you don't do anything, nothing changes, and they keep on doing close passes until they get it wrong or something unfortunate happens.0 -
If it's deliberate then they must know they're too close, with it being a conscious / deliberate act. I'd be concerned that they might not take too kindly to receiving a letter about it. Although I doubt in most complained about close passes I doubt any action is made such as a letter.
If not deliberate, as in they did not see you or did not know they were too close I could see a letter having the potential for a positive effect on their driving. For as long as the letter holds its impact. I'd reckon give it a month or two and the old faults in their driving would come out. It's like speeding, most getting their first ticket if responsible slow down. However given enough time they forget the consequences or stop caring. They end up speeding again.
I'm afraid I don't hold out much belief in driver's ability to change without changes to their views on life. For example a driver takes up regular cycle commuting and they reduce their close pass rate when back in the car. Or a car accident in the family due to excessive speed changes perceptions of your own speed behind the wheel.0 -
Tangled Metal wrote:I'm afraid I don't hold out much belief in driver's ability to change without changes to their views on life. For example a driver takes up regular cycle commuting and they reduce their close pass rate when back in the car. Or a car accident in the family due to excessive speed changes perceptions of your own speed behind the wheel.
Isn't there some psychology or behaviour theory(ies) that explain something along the lines of: unless an incident impacts you significantly (physically, psychologically or emotionally) whether be it to yourself or to one of your significant others, your behaviour will not change.
Looking back before I became a regular bike commuter (or ride bike more regularly), I must have passed cyclists too close to their liking a few times. Not deliberately, of course, but just not being aware of how cyclists feel or how much they need space when over taking. The view from car is very different from that of a cyclist's view. Fortunately, I never had any contact or incidents with any road users whilst driving. But now that I am one of the commuter cyclists (100+miles / approx 8hrs a week on road), I acknolwedge and appreciate fellow cyclists alot more when I drive (which has dropped considerably due to cycling alot more). I am more than happy to give space for the cyclists and sit back until I have space to overtake by crossing the central line completely.
But that's not the experience of every driver / cyclists in the UK. I don't expect any absolute answer or solution to this topic but at least I am now aware.0 -
But unless they know you reported them they can't easily take it out on you - just any cyclist they suspect may have reported it. No - they probably won't take kindly to it - I've not seen the content of the letter, but I expect it suggests that repeated/frequent reports of bad driving will escalate their response and it won't be a letter next time ...Tangled Metal wrote:If it's deliberate then they must know they're too close, with it being a conscious / deliberate act. I'd be concerned that they might not take too kindly to receiving a letter about it. Although I doubt in most complained about close passes I doubt any action is made such as a letter.
Well - a month or two of more considerate driving is better than none - and again, the letter will suggest that perphaps they won't get away with a letter next time - once they start getting points and fines it will cost them far more in terms of insurance - hit drivers in their pockets is one easy way to concentrate the mind.Tangled Metal wrote:If not deliberate, as in they did not see you or did not know they were too close I could see a letter having the potential for a positive effect on their driving. For as long as the letter holds its impact. I'd reckon give it a month or two and the old faults in their driving would come out. It's like speeding, most getting their first ticket if responsible slow down. However given enough time they forget the consequences or stop caring. They end up speeding again.
I'm afraid I don't hold out much belief in driver's ability to change without changes to their views on life. For example a driver takes up regular cycle commuting and they reduce their close pass rate when back in the car. Or a car accident in the family due to excessive speed changes perceptions of your own speed behind the wheel.
Reports of the Police inititives on close passes are "hitting the press" - so the general public will see that there is a change to what is considered acceptable - and hopefully that will help them ensure they're considerate in their driving too.
One thing is for sure - if we do nothing, then nothing will change. At least by doing something we stand a chance of things changing for the positive.0 -
I just Google searched for any initiatives or operation to crack close passing vehicles...
Lots! Some example articles:
Birmingham by West Midlands Police (February 2017)
Passing judgement: How ‘Operation Close Pass’ is bringing bad drivers to book
Again West Midlands Police (March 2017)
Too close for comfort: campaign aims to give cyclists safe space
Very recently in Southampton, Portsmouth and New Forest by Hampshire Police (October 2017)
‘Close pass’ cycle safety operation sees 20 drivers stopped by Hampshire Police
Just skimmed through the Hampshire Police article. Undercover police cycling on the road, close pass, driver gets pulled over for immediate educational advice instead of given penalty for careless driving. It also mentions that they spoke to cyclists, and even issued fixed penalty points for "bad cycling" (no lights, red light jumpers).
I think Hampshire police dealt with the campaign well by educating both parties instead of operating on just drivers. It shows that Hampshire police are neither side of cyclists or drivers but penalises unacceptable use of roads.
Maybe we're not forgotten at all!0 -
I shit myself, then throw it at the windscreen at the lights.0
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Well if you want to report it in the belief that you're at least doing something to help I'll take my approach. That is I'll move on and enjoy the rest of my cycling. IMHO your approach will have very small chance of real success. At least my approach will succeed in the aims of enjoying cycling without worrying about what i believe can't be changed by my actions.
Learning to not take it too seriously / personally allowed me to move on and forget about the dodgy actions of a clear minority round my neck if the woods.0 -
Don't you ever get scared? Its all very well pretending its all water of a duck's back and all that, but if someone is generally afraid, then the fight or flight response kicks in. I always feel that people who "always" take the zen approach (a) look down on the other 99.99% (b) aren't being entirely honest.Tangled Metal wrote:Well if you want to report it in the belief that you're at least doing something to help I'll take my approach. That is I'll move on and enjoy the rest of my cycling. IMHO your approach will have very small chance of real success. At least my approach will succeed in the aims of enjoying cycling without worrying about what i believe can't be changed by my actions.
Learning to not take it too seriously / personally allowed me to move on and forget about the dodgy actions of a clear minority round my neck if the woods.0 -
Tangled Metal wrote:Well if you want to report it in the belief that you're at least doing something to help I'll take my approach. That is I'll move on and enjoy the rest of my cycling. IMHO your approach will have very small chance of real success. At least my approach will succeed in the aims of enjoying cycling without worrying about what i believe can't be changed by my actions.
Learning to not take it too seriously / personally allowed me to move on and forget about the dodgy actions of a clear minority round my neck if the woods.
I'm mostly just commuting .... the alternative would be a close pass on my turbo trainer ...
Anyway - commuting - I'm not doing it (just) for enjoyment - I'm doing it to get there (in one piece) - as it's the same route at the same time of day - chances are the vehicle will go past again ... and anyway - the camera (if it hasn't turned off like it did this morning) should've captured it - so I just review the right segment - decide if I think it shows what I thought it should - if so I can report it - as I can't do that whilst riding it hasn't spoilt my ride at all.
Once the report is submitted I don't need to worry - as Ive only done one I did keep an eye on the progress and was pleased with the outcome - bonus in my opinion...
Sorry - but if I've got evidence of anti-social driving I'm not just going to sit there and take it0 -
I'm not looking down on you at all. I appreciate your response and accept it might be a better course of action. My personal preference is to just move on and enjoy my cycling.
As to getting scared, well it happens but the fight or flight response kicks in and I move on. One example was when a motorway link road construction caused a lot of traffic to take my commute route as a rat run. Heavy goods lorries using a road that was totally inappropriate for that type of vehicles in those numbers. I got overtaken by a truck carrying reinforced concrete beams on a trailer that was effectively linked axles. It half overtook me and I found myself between the two wheels of the trailer underneath the inside beams. I was busy matching it's speed whilst looking for a field gate with the associated lowering of the kerb. I found it and rode onto a very narrow footpath at speed until I could stop. I rested awhile then got back into traffic and rode home. I was fuming though! Not totally zenlike as you'd expect.
I still got out on my bike the next morning, afternoon and so on. I still mostly enjoyed being on my bike. I didn't report it because I had no evidence and I doubt it would have done any good. I did start to ride that section of the route in almost primary from that day. It certainly stopped the trucks overtaking closely like that. I changed my behaviour to make myself safer. I should have done that from the day traffic first started to use that rat run.
BTW the one thing I nearly did think of doing, contact council, mp and the road construction lead n contractors about getting some restriction put on that road. It seriously should have a restriction on trucks using it except for access. Every time there's a motorway snarl up it becomes a dangerous rat run for mostly large artics of courier companies and supermarkets. Seriously how many dx or dpd trucks do you reckon to up the m6 past Lancaster every hour?! It's a lot because they sometimes go past my road to avoid traffic on the motorway. These are among the biggest trucks UK roads allow.0 -
I do it for commuting but I only choose the bike because I like it. If I didn't I'd use a car or the very reasonable train. It would effectively cost me the same for train as using the car if I bought a season ticket. So for me cycle commuting is significantly about enjoyment too. Cycling hasn't been much cheaper because I use a lbs for maintenance (prefer to have an expert do it right, quickly and leave me to use my time for other things).0
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I do enjoy most of my commute - but I do it because if I don't, there's little else I do to excersise.
I see little point in reporting something you can't verify - so a lone cyclist being buzzed isn't really going to carry much impact - with the camera on - if it's caught the anti-social behaviour and the vehicle is identifiable then I see no reason not to report it.
Luckily I'm nowhere near a motorway - although the route to nursery I'd ride if I could - I can't because too many use it as a rat run to avoid the local bypass - they go through far too quickly for me to consider it sensible to ride with a toddler on the back.
I did contact the water co last year when they put (or had contracted) some traffic lights on my commute - a couple of times, being the last vehicle through, the lights had changed before I'd cleared the works - and there were a couple of impatient drivers who couldn't wait to come the other way ... the chap at the water co took my email as a complaint - and (iirc) was a cyclist himself - so the matter got dealt with PDQ...
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First Aspect wrote:If really too close, I'll reach out and rap my knuckles on the car.
As much as I agree that if you can touch a car they're too close, I'd really not recommend doing this.
I used to do it, and most drivers were oblivious to the knocks on the side window and carried on. It achieved nothing.
The last time (and it will be the last time), the car just pulled past me, slammed on his brakes hard and pulled into the side of the kerb, leaving me nowhere to go except straight into the back of him, not nice at 20mph. I didn't enjoy the trip in the ambulance and with no cameras or witnesses, the police just said it was his word against mine.
Don't do it, you will come off worse.0 -
Well yes its a potentially hazardous exercise so only to be used if you already think a collision is quite likely. I wasn't really suggesting using it as an educational tool.wavefront wrote:First Aspect wrote:If really too close, I'll reach out and rap my knuckles on the car.
As much as I agree that if you can touch a car they're too close, I'd really not recommend doing this.
I used to do it, and most drivers were oblivious to the knocks on the side window and carried on. It achieved nothing.
The last time (and it will be the last time), the car just pulled past me, slammed on his brakes hard and pulled into the side of the kerb, leaving me nowhere to go except straight into the back of him, not nice at 20mph. I didn't enjoy the trip in the ambulance and with no cameras or witnesses, the police just said it was his word against mine.
Don't do it, you will come off worse.
At least you'll have damaged his car.0 -
wavefront wrote:First Aspect wrote:If really too close, I'll reach out and rap my knuckles on the car.
As much as I agree that if you can touch a car they're too close, I'd really not recommend doing this.
I used to do it, and most drivers were oblivious to the knocks on the side window and carried on. It achieved nothing.
The last time (and it will be the last time), the car just pulled past me, slammed on his brakes hard and pulled into the side of the kerb, leaving me nowhere to go except straight into the back of him, not nice at 20mph. I didn't enjoy the trip in the ambulance and with no cameras or witnesses, the police just said it was his word against mine.
Don't do it, you will come off worse.
Had exactly the same thing happen to me earlier this year. I still occasionally say something calmly if the car is stationary, but I wouldn't hit cars as they pass now.0 -
JBVRV wrote:wavefront wrote:First Aspect wrote:If really too close, I'll reach out and rap my knuckles on the car.
As much as I agree that if you can touch a car they're too close, I'd really not recommend doing this.
I used to do it, and most drivers were oblivious to the knocks on the side window and carried on. It achieved nothing.
The last time (and it will be the last time), the car just pulled past me, slammed on his brakes hard and pulled into the side of the kerb, leaving me nowhere to go except straight into the back of him, not nice at 20mph. I didn't enjoy the trip in the ambulance and with no cameras or witnesses, the police just said it was his word against mine. Don't do it, you will come off worse.
Had exactly the same thing happen to me earlier this year. I still occasionally say something calmly if the car is stationary, but I wouldn't hit cars as they pass now.
Got chased through the streets of Kingston by an enraged driver trying to knock me off because I tapped the side of his car. I wouldn't do it again.
When we finally had a discussion (I stopped near some handy witnesses to stop him running over anyone), he brought up the fact that I was going too fast in Richmond Park, and that the speed limit applied to me too. He had been overtaking me when I touched his car.0 -
Close pass - just shake my head in disapointed resignation
Very close pass - I do a 'push out' motion with my left arm, hoping the driver sees it in thier rear view mirror and resolves never to do something so foolish ever again. This also usually makes any subsequent overtakers give me loads of room.
Stupidly close pass - Full italian
Have only caught up with a driver once, 'bit close mate' i said in a friendly manner. He said nothing and stared ahead. Said it again, nothing. I muttered 'c****' under my breath as he pulled off (that taught him!)0 -
Nothing, they didnt hit you and miss is as good as a mile! as an individual there is nothing you can do, apart from put yourself in more danger, i know of 2 cyclists attacked by drivers after giving the bird.
if the Gov introduced a min 12 month ban for close passes on cyclists, then things would change but thats not going to happen, instead "operation close pass" gives drivers a stern ticking off..... woooo weeee, in Exeter the lorry came within inchs of hitting the under cover police cyclist, no ticket given.0 -
Cough! Cough! I agree with mamba!
(that felt very wrong).0 -
In my case, there's some A-roads that I simply avoid as I don't feel safe on them. I'm more than happy to add one or two miles onto my route by taking an empty backroad instead."The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby0
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I usually give a short blast on the klaxon, it seems to be the language car drivers understand the best. The poor ones are usually bullies, and while I'm not bigger than them on my bike, I can be just as noisy.
Primary road position is vitally important, as has been said, especially on roundabouts. It does tend to cause a bit of trouble, and a bit of aggression, but a bit of deliberate agression, while unpleasant, is safer than just plain ignorance that you're there. Again, the klax usually sorts most things out before they become a problem, and my bike's loud voice saves me shouting, which a) makes it more personal for the driver, b) hurts my throat and c) winds me up and makes me more likely to pick a fight.
Louise0 -
In addition to the above advice of doing nothing until the car is far enough away not to cause harm and riding in a prominent place to give you wiggle room, I would add 1 thing:
I don’t like cameras. We shouldn’t need to wear them and they look stupid. I finally relented a week ago; people who think they are being recorded drive completely differently.
It doesn’t have to be real & to be honest they aren’t exactly observant. Just stick a small box to the top of your head/helmet. You will be amazed how much of the crazy stuff stops.
For decades I thought it was mostly ignorance, but most of it isn’t. Many know what they should be doing, they just think you are unimportant.0 -
Attach a metal eating lazer with a 1.5 metre threshold for next time.
Or a 1.5 metre platic pole with reflector to your right (there was a video clip of someone doing this in Southampton in the last two months, cannot find it now).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england ... o-cyclists
Gets more interesting when the offending vehicle is a police van!
http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2017/09/2 ... s-cyclist/================
2020 Voodoo Marasa
2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
2016 Voodoo Wazoo0 -
If it's close and fast, I resort to my best french, and may wave my arms a tiny bit. I'm sorry, but I truly despise inconsiderate people that put others at risk for little gain.First Aspect wrote:In Edinburgh we now have 20 limits. So I'll frequently find drivers doing close, slow overtakes. If really too close, I'll reach out and rap my knuckles on the car. Normally the driver reacts as though there's someone shooting at them, or as though I've taken a baseball bat to the rear window. If they do try to speak to me, either they will be somewhat reasonable or, in the poshest accent I can muster, I'll suggest that I may not be able to avoid them next time. Usually works. At last resort, I'll make loud chimpanzee noises.
There are few places in Edinburgh that are truly terrible. The 90 degree left hander going down the mound is a dangerous place, and the whole descent is fraught with risk during peak hours, with cars entering the bike lane as if it were part of the lane. I've found taking primary is crucial in Dean Bridge, even downhill when faster than 20 mph. I will only ever leave primary there if going uphill and with no cars on the opposite lane.
But of all places Kilgraston Road going south is my favourite (Strava segment). The percentage of cars blinded by the red mist after the climb along Marchmont is stupendous. Which is silly, because Marchmont Road is reasonably wide and has a bike lane in each direction. Whatever. I've even had close passes while in primary, doing 25 mph, and with a bus coming in the opposite lane. FFS.
It could be worse, I know. Thankfully I don't take the A7 towards the Royal Infirmary very often.
So yes, I tend to remind them *a lot* about the 5 feet they're supposed to give me.0 -
So today, on what was an otherwise very pleasant ride on sunny and calm Edinburgh, I was passed by a silvery blue Ford at less than an arms distance on Granton road, with nobody else around, and with the other lane deserted. According to Strava, I was doing 26 km/h at that time. I got to tell this idiot he put me at risk at the traffic light to Ferry Rd, and tried to remember his number plate (not quite SN56 LRZ). It turns out, I should have taken a picture. Thankfully, next time he gave me more room, but his "lane" was over 15 feet wide at that point.
The story, however, was not over. This man was gesticulating like a politician towards the car in front while waiting to turn into Inverleith Row, and I could sense he was going to do something idiotic. In this case, that was accelerating to at least 40 mph to overtake the car ahead, which was itself breaking the 20mph speed limit. In a narrow two-way lane, where he's likely to be stuck behind a bus or a traffic light.
I should have taken a picture, and reported him to the police.0 -
Forget cameras for changing behavior of drivers, you should tow a child trailer. It amazed me the first time I took the trailer out with an occupant. Almost all the cars moved so far away from us we never felt them passing. In some cases the cars couldn't physically move further away from us without driving on the grass verge. The closest pass was what I estimated at the recommended 1.5m. That Rotterdam close passing a child trailer at the recommended minimum gap was a real b'stard. Evil!
I have a theory that there's a hierarchy of consideration. By that I mean drivers will be more considerate with young children, probably dogs in trailers, attractive women (blondes more so) and bottom of the heap is hi-viz wearing / camera & bright light carrying male in commuting kit. If you're one of the lowest of the low in that list then close pass is possibly least of your worries.0
