B'Twin 6.7kg £3,499.00

neeb

Garry H wrote:

They have dedicated mechanics. Again,it's a bicycle, not a rocket.

The fact that it isn't a rocket is logically meaningless here. It's a a machine with much more precise tolerances in assembly than a cheap £200 bike has. Decathlon as a company are not bike specialists, far less high-end bike specialists. Possibly being a large company they have a good management structure and procedures in place to ensure safety and quality control, in which case their mechanics may very well be perfectly competent at assembling £3000 bikes, but it would be good to have evidence of that. That's the point, and all of the point.

Garry H

You miss the point. They have bike mechanics. A bicycle does not need a very high level of training to maintain or assemble. Kids can doi it. I can do it (and I work in banking). Whether it's 105 or Dura Ace makes no difference, it works the same way and is assembled in the same way.

mikecassie

Good spec, very good spec actually and at a good price. I've never ridden a B'Twin but I did the Raid Pyrenees last year with a lad who was on one. It didn't seem to hold him back, infact he was flying at times. The frame he was on looked quite boxy, but it was surprisingly light.
As for comfort, well we were doing an avg of 100 miles a day for 4 days and he never grumbled. And often it's only a saddle swap needed.
If you're on a budget and want bang for buck that seems to be a good deal.

Matthewfalle

Anyhow, the precise tolerances are all internal (for example, inside the shifters with all the little ratchets and gubbins').

There are absolutely no precise tolerances involved in sticking a 5mm Allen key in a bolt and turning it. 4mm Allen key on a seat clamp, turn it.

Last time I fitted some shifters and some mechs it was 2x 5mm Allen bolts for the shifters, 1 x 5mm Allen bolt for the rear mech and 1x 4mm Allen key. Not really any mega precise precise tolerances involved there and that was Di2.

Methinks that he is a club member who has believed the hype.

Matthewfalle

Does he also realise that it's bloody impossible to crush a steerer tube?

Jerry185

The Decathlon brand isnt cheap and nasty - just cheap.
I had a Triban 540 for two years, where the experts said the sum of the parts was worth more than the bike.
Sold it to a mate when I got a carbon bike, and he's over the moon with it.
Just saying Deacthlon isn't the French Sports Direct

neeb

Matthewfalle wrote:

Anyhow, the precise tolerances are all internal (for example, inside the shifters with all the little ratchets and gubbins').

There are absolutely no precise tolerances involved in sticking a 5mm Allen key in a bolt and turning it. 4mm Allen key on a seat clamp, turn it.

Last time I fitted some shifters and some mechs it was 2x 5mm Allen bolts for the shifters, 1 x 5mm Allen bolt for the rear mech and 1x 4mm Allen key. Not really any mega precise precise tolerances involved there and that was Di2.

Methinks that he is a club member who has believed the hype.

You’d really be happy to have someone with no knowledge of carbon components assemble your new £3000 carbon bike without a torque wrench? Really? I’m wasting my time here, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Are you a dentist by any chance? You might need the assistance if one of your chubby Pinarello riding colleagues when your steerer sheers off eventually.

I’m prepared to bet I’ve assembled more bikes than you’ve had undeserved bonuses -I’ve completely built or rebuilt all of the bikes I’ve owned since around 1988. I’ve had a damaged carbon steerer tube requiring the fork to be replaced on one occasion even when using a torque wrench due to badly designed / poorly compatible components.

In all seriousness, If you have assembled your own carbon bike without using a torque wrench I would get it checked by someone qualified. And have a read-up on these things, FFS.

neeb

P.S. just to be clear (since most people on this thread seem to have limited skills in reading comprehension), I have no reason to believe that the bike in question isn’t very good and extremely good value.

dodgy

Many people wouldn't buy the Btwin because they're a little insecure. They want to project themselves by the brands they're seen with
Same with cars, why buy a Skoda when you can buy the identical engine, gearbox, etc in an Audi and lose a few thousand quid at the same time. At least your friends will be impressed (or at least, you think they will be impressed)

Nothing wrong with the Btwin, though I concede it will lose money a little quicker than one of the big brands, but then again it's costing a lot less. If you're keeping bikes for a few years it doesn't matter.

cookeeemonster

I'm guessing but I reckon they'd be more comeback (that is, they'd be in the s**t) for a mechanic if they messed up a 3.5k bike rather than a 500 pound one...and so I reckon you don't have to worry about anything there.

All the people I know who have a btwin love them, they are not sports direct.

But yeah, spend 3.5k on one if you're likely to keep it a while, I can't imagine it holding value as much as a branded bike...though that may be cancelled out by the fact you'd spend more in the first place to get the same spec...

neeb

CookeeeMonster wrote:

I'm guessing but I reckon they'd be more comeback (that is, they'd be in the s**t) for a mechanic if they messed up a 3.5k bike rather than a 500 pound one...and so I reckon you don't have to worry about anything there.

All the people I know who have a btwin love them, they are not sports direct.

You're probably right. My objection was only to some people on here (who it transpires haven't a clue) thinking it was reasonable to be abusive to someone simply for raising the possibility that a big discount warehouse store might not have expertise in carbon bike assembly.

Matthewfalle

why don't Garry and I have a clue?

pray tell.

Matthewfalle

neeb wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Anyhow, the precise tolerances are all internal (for example, inside the shifters with all the little ratchets and gubbins').

There are absolutely no precise tolerances involved in sticking a 5mm Allen key in a bolt and turning it. 4mm Allen key on a seat clamp, turn it.

Last time I fitted some shifters and some mechs it was 2x 5mm Allen bolts for the shifters, 1 x 5mm Allen bolt for the rear mech and 1x 4mm Allen key. Not really any mega precise precise tolerances involved there and that was Di2.

Methinks that he is a club member who has believed the hype.

You’d really be happy to have someone with no knowledge of carbon components assemble your new £3000 carbon bike without a torque wrench? Really? I’m wasting my time here, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Are you a dentist by any chance? You might need the assistance if one of your chubby Pinarello riding colleagues when your steerer sheers off eventually.

I’m prepared to bet I’ve assembled more bikes than you’ve had undeserved bonuses -I’ve completely built or rebuilt all of the bikes I’ve owned since around 1988. I’ve had a damaged carbon steerer tube requiring the fork to be replaced on one occasion even when using a torque wrench due to badly designed / poorly compatible components.

In all seriousness, If you have assembled your own carbon bike without using a torque wrench I would get it checked by someone qualified. And have a read-up on these things, FFS.

why are you angry? don't be - it makes you ugly inside.

i use a Ritchey tourque key i stead of a wrench as its easier.

just absorb the knowledge and experience of others then you may not crush any other steerer tubes.

As an aside, what have you got any dentists? Its sad to see the hatred.

jgsi

Well I like it and thats an end to all this bosh.
I'd still have the Dolan (same price point with eTAP though)

Matthewfalle

JGSI wrote:

Well I like it and thats an end to all this bosh.
I'd still have the Dolan (same price point with eTAP though)

oooh - that sounds like it has potential.

any links?

neeb

Matthewfalle wrote:

neeb wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Anyhow, the precise tolerances are all internal (for example, inside the shifters with all the little ratchets and gubbins').

There are absolutely no precise tolerances involved in sticking a 5mm Allen key in a bolt and turning it. 4mm Allen key on a seat clamp, turn it.

Last time I fitted some shifters and some mechs it was 2x 5mm Allen bolts for the shifters, 1 x 5mm Allen bolt for the rear mech and 1x 4mm Allen key. Not really any mega precise precise tolerances involved there and that was Di2.

Methinks that he is a club member who has believed the hype.

You’d really be happy to have someone with no knowledge of carbon components assemble your new £3000 carbon bike without a torque wrench? Really? I’m wasting my time here, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Are you a dentist by any chance? You might need the assistance if one of your chubby Pinarello riding colleagues when your steerer sheers off eventually.

I’m prepared to bet I’ve assembled more bikes than you’ve had undeserved bonuses -I’ve completely built or rebuilt all of the bikes I’ve owned since around 1988. I’ve had a damaged carbon steerer tube requiring the fork to be replaced on one occasion even when using a torque wrench due to badly designed / poorly compatible components.

In all seriousness, If you have assembled your own carbon bike without using a torque wrench I would get it checked by someone qualified. And have a read-up on these things, FFS.

why are you angry? don't be - it makes you ugly inside.

i use a Ritchey tourque key i stead of a wrench as its easier.

just absorb the knowledge and experience of others then you may not crush any other steerer tubes.

As an aside, what have you got any dentists? Its sad to see the hatred.

The ultimate irony - my only reason for contributing to this threat in the first place was my objection to *your* hatred.

Unwarranted abusive replies on forums annoy me. Warranted ones are a different matter entirely.

neeb

Matthewfalle wrote:

why don't Garry and I have a clue?

pray tell.

Well, Gary thinks it's OK to assemble stems on carbon steerers without a torque wrench.

You at least use a torque key, but you appear to agree with him.

jgsi

Feast yer eyes.. I might actually win summat... belay that... I need to win summat to afford, damn
https://www.dolan-bikes.com/road/road-b ... e-tap.html

neeb

Matthewfalle wrote:

Methinks that he is a club member who has believed the hype.

And just as a matter of interest - I'm curious why you and Gary (do you know each other??) seem to have some sort of prejudice thing going on about "club members". I assume you are not members of clubs yourself. How do you perceive cycling clubs and why do you set yourself up in opposition to them? I'm genuinely curious.

norvernrob

My Foil HMX with Red was £500 cheaper. Probably an unfair comparison as I bought it at a discount being a previous years model, but that's always an option for anybody.

The Btwin looks a great price, but I'm not sure it would hold its value very well (though the group set and wheels are easily sellable). How good is the frame and are you happy spunking 3.5 grand on a Btwin, those are the big questions.

Matthewfalle

JGSI wrote:

Feast yer eyes.. I might actually win summat... belay that... I need to win summat to afford, damn5
https://www.dolan-bikes.com/road/road-b ... e-tap.html

tasty. v tasty. hat.

Matthewfalle

neeb wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Methinks that he is a club member who has believed the hype.

And just as a matter of interest - I'm curious why you and Gary (do you know each other??) seem to have some sort of prejudice thing going on about "club members". I assume you are not members of clubs yourself. How do you perceive cycling clubs and why do you set yourself up in opposition to them? I'm genuinely curious.

i (and I am sure if Garry does - we don't know each other so I can't say) am a member of a club but only because they pay me to race for them. There is no prejudice involved because they pay me filthy lucre and give me clothes.

sloppyschleckonds

neeb wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

why don't Garry and I have a clue?

pray tell.

Well, Gary thinks it's OK to assemble stems on carbon steerers without a torque wrench.

If you can't feel what 5nm is like, you probably get your mum to tie your shoelaces, or buy your clothes

neeb

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

neeb wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

why don't Garry and I have a clue?

pray tell.

Well, Gary thinks it's OK to assemble stems on carbon steerers without a torque wrench.

If you can't feel what 5nm is like, you probably get your mum to tie your shoelaces, or buy your clothes

If you feel the need to post comments like that on forums you probably have a lot of unresolved issues with your mum from early childhood.

Anyone can "feel what 5nm is like", but that's a meaningless concept without a margin of error. Chances are that yours is +/- 3nm.

neeb

Matthewfalle wrote:

neeb wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Methinks that he is a club member who has believed the hype.

And just as a matter of interest - I'm curious why you and Gary (do you know each other??) seem to have some sort of prejudice thing going on about "club members". I assume you are not members of clubs yourself. How do you perceive cycling clubs and why do you set yourself up in opposition to them? I'm genuinely curious.

i (and I am sure if Garry does - we don't know each other so I can't say) am a member of a club but only because they pay me to race for them. There is no prejudice involved because they pay me filthy lucre and give me clothes.

So what's the relevance of "club members" in your comments?

imposter2.0

Matthewfalle wrote:

i (and I am sure if Garry does - we don't know each other so I can't say) am a member of a club but only because they pay me to race for them. There is no prejudice involved because they pay me filthy lucre and give me clothes.

Which club?

mfin

neeb wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

neeb wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

why don't Garry and I have a clue?

pray tell.

Well, Gary thinks it's OK to assemble stems on carbon steerers without a torque wrench.

If you can't feel what 5nm is like, you probably get your mum to tie your shoelaces, or buy your clothes

If you feel the need to post comments like that on forums you probably have a lot of unresolved issues with your mum from early childhood.

Anyone can "feel what 5nm is like", but that's a meaningless concept without a margin of error. Chances are that yours is +/- 3nm.

I'm sorry but you will have to accept that most experienced people can assemble carbon components and bikes without exceeding stated torque values on components. I've never in my life later gone and checked any bolt with a torque wrench on any bike I have worked on without one and found I have exceeded recommended torque. I've checked plenty of times out of interest and am always under torqued. I think you'll find there are a hell of a lot of people who've worked on bikes for years who are like me.

A clueless person working on a carbon bike/components with a torque wrench is better than a clueless person working without a torque wrench. A lot of people aren't clueless though and don't need a torque wrench. If you're not sure if you are clueless, a torque wrench is worth using just in case.

cougie

I've had carbon bikes and forks for years. Never used a torque wrench. Never had a problem. I'm not even sure torque wrenches were in use in the bike shop back at the start of carbon forks. It's really not rocket science.

I'd be happy with a decathlon bike after all they have to make sure that their bikes are safe for kids to ride. I've also seen proper bike shops do awful jobs - Saturday kids fitting brake blocks back to front..

neeb

mfin wrote:

I'm sorry but you will have to accept that most experienced people can assemble carbon components and bikes without exceeding stated torque values on components. I've never in my life later gone and checked any bolt with a torque wrench on any bike I have worked on without one and found I have exceeded recommended torque. I've checked plenty of times out of interest and am always under torqued. I think you'll find there are a hell of a lot of people who've worked on bikes for years who are like me.

A clueless person working on a carbon bike/components with a torque wrench is better than a clueless person working without a torque wrench. A lot of people aren't clueless though and don't need a torque wrench. If you're not sure if you are clueless, a torque wrench is worth using just in case.

If you do up all of your bolts by feel and have never over-torqued them you are probably under-torquing them, possibly quite considerably. That's potentially just as dangerous as over-torquing them.

As I said above, I've also worked on bikes for years (decades), and have have a reasonably good feel for 5nm too. I've sometimes had to tighten a stem on the road when a headset has worked loose without a torque wrench, but I'd always check the torque was within range when I got back home. I'd be surprised if many people could *consistently* tighten bolts to 5nm to within a 2nm margin of error. Professional mechanics who are doing it every day perhaps.

Of course you can tighten everything by feel and 99% of the time you won't have a problem. But given the consequences of a steerer tube or handlebars failing on the road it's just not worth the risk. To say that you've been doing it for years without issue isn't the point - that's just the "my uncle smoked 50 a day all his life and lived to be 110" argument.

neeb

Anyway, this is one of those helmet-type debates that has been done to death - many threads on the subject, including this one where Matthewfalle is singing the praises of torque keys..

viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=13072783&hilit=torque+wrench