Bike weight
Comments
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davidof wrote:Within the type of bikes you are looking at then weight is not the major factor.
If you are doing a 1000 meter climb at 8% (a typical alpine col) then a 8kg bike will probably be no more than 1 minute quicker than an 10kg bike for an 11 stone rider and probably no real difference on the flat. (I'm going on my Strava times here.)
Indeed if I plug the figures into
http://bikecalculator.com/
I see the difference is about a minute. I that significant for you?
During the year I ride a lightweight carbon bike, a top steel bike from the 90s and a top steel bike from the 70s. On my local lunch training ride, a 500 meter climb, the difference between them can be measured in seconds. If you are not racing then I wouldn't worry about it too much. It is always good to beast people on a 1970s bike when they've laid out 6 grand for some carbon speed machine too :-)
If I had a choice of 1 bike I would probably take a good steel frame with good components but I wouldn't discount aluminium which is pretty low maintenance. I think some of the ride issues have been addressed with recent Al. frames.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Absolutely this. To the OP, the total weight of the bike does make a difference but a lot less than people trying to sell you an expensive carbon machine might want you to believe. Way more important (IMHO) is your position on the bike, how well it fits, the choice of wheel and tyres, and your own fitness,strength and bodyweight. All things being equal then if you have all the other things sorted, spending money on a lighter bike might be worthwhile (depending on what you're hoping to achieve). If however you're carrying a bit of flab, your training regime is lax and you're running some crummy wheel/tyre combo then don't expect to fly up your favourite climb like Pantini just because you spent a ton of cash shaving half a pound off the weight of your frame.0 -
Im with Matt, a decent alloy bike will be as nice, if not nicer than a CF one. weight isn't really an issue if you up your cycling you will loose weight anyway.0
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ZMC888 wrote:
I own 10 bikes made from many materials, I have no horse in the race.Matthewfalle wrote:JGSI wrote:It does actually grind my gears when someone with very limited knowledge posts that alloy frames are inferior to cf just because.
Idiot.
This and ZMC above unfortunately is a prime candidate.
Methinks he believes the hype.
You own an aluminium alloy bike. It's called Choice-supportive bias.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias
I also own carbon fibre and steel bikes and Dirk - he is made from unobtainium and Spinergy and has been, 5 years running, voted the coolest bike on BR by the forumites out of all the bikes that have appeared on Br, be it by forumites or on the front page.
I am sorry that you don't own Dirk but no one will ever own him except maybe TDNFNATN or AndyCP.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Step83 wrote:Im with Matt, a decent alloy bike will be as nice, if not nicer than a CF one. weight isn't really an issue if you up your cycling you will loose weight anyway.
Thank you.
Smithy was right you know - I don't know why people doubt him.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Whatever. The last bike you bought is the best one in the whole wide world, like ever.Matthewfalle wrote:ZMC888 wrote:
I own 10 bikes made from many materials, I have no horse in the race.Matthewfalle wrote:JGSI wrote:It does actually grind my gears when someone with very limited knowledge posts that alloy frames are inferior to cf just because.
Idiot.
This and ZMC above unfortunately is a prime candidate.
Methinks he believes the hype.
You own an aluminium alloy bike. It's called Choice-supportive bias.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias
I also own carbon fibre and steel bikes and Dirk - he is made from unobtainium and Spinergy and has been, 5 years running, voted the coolest bike on BR by the forumites out of all the bikes that have appeared on Br, be it by forumites or on the front page.
I am sorry that you don't own Dirk but no one will ever own him except maybe TDNFNATN or AndyCP.0 -
The actual weight penalty of an aluminium frame is roughly 0.5 kg. This is without taking things to the extreme, obviously. Of course, cheap Al bikes come with cheap heavy components, and expensive CF bikes come with expensive, light components, which all add up.
A medium Giant Contend SL2 is about 8.8 kg, and £850 (last year's model is the same, but cheaper). This is 2kg above the UCI weight limit, which does not affect you if you don't race. Those 2 kg could net you an improvement of 3% in climbing times. That amount is ridiculous compared to the gains you'd get in fitness by just getting any bike and riding it.
TL,DR: Get a bike that you like (like is important, it helps you when the weather doesn't) and ride it.0 -
ZMC888 wrote:
Whatever. The last bike you bought is the best one in the whole wide world, like ever.Matthewfalle wrote:ZMC888 wrote:
I own 10 bikes made from many materials, I have no horse in the race.Matthewfalle wrote:JGSI wrote:It does actually grind my gears when someone with very limited knowledge posts that alloy frames are inferior to cf just because.
Idiot.
This and ZMC above unfortunately is a prime candidate.
Methinks he believes the hype.
You own an aluminium alloy bike. It's called Choice-supportive bias.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias
I also own carbon fibre and steel bikes and Dirk - he is made from unobtainium and Spinergy and has been, 5 years running, voted the coolest bike on BR by the forumites out of all the bikes that have appeared on Br, be it by forumites or on the front page.
I am sorry that you don't own Dirk but no one will ever own him except maybe TDNFNATN or AndyCP.
no its not actually. the last bike I got was my Madone and its well, very nice average if you know what I mean.
Only Dirk is coolest bike ever. Maybe not the best, but PROVEN to be the coolest by a nautical kilometre. PROVEN FACT.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
So is the OP buying a CAAD or not?...0
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SurferCyclist wrote:Matthewfalle wrote:Oh - an impartial article from a company that makes carbon bits for cars and so wants to sell you carbon bits for your car not an ali bike frame?
Deary you indeed. No problem though, we forgive you. We are kind like that.
Thanks. It was just an example of how by volume CF is lighter than aluminium that's all.
My wife's sponge cake is lighter than both, by volume. I wouldn't want to make a frame out of it though.
mass/volume is density. Doesn't say anything about strength or stiffness.
You need Yield Strength/Density and Young's Modulus/Density. Those would be better to measure the merits of either material.
The real reason for manufacturing frames from carbon fibre is lower production costs and higher margins.0 -
Question, If Aluminium Alloy (not ali :roll: ) is so good for bike frames, why do they all have a carbon fork?0
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Some have an ali steerer......................................
And why is it that PROs run ali bars and stems?Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
darkhairedlord wrote:SurferCyclist wrote:Matthewfalle wrote:Oh - an impartial article from a company that makes carbon bits for cars and so wants to sell you carbon bits for your car not an ali bike frame?
Deary you indeed. No problem though, we forgive you. We are kind like that.
Thanks. It was just an example of how by volume CF is lighter than aluminium that's all.
My wife's sponge cake is lighter than both, by volume. I wouldn't want to make a frame out of it though.
mass/volume is density. Doesn't say anything about strength or stiffness.
You need Yield Strength/Density and Young's Modulus/Density. Those would be better to measure the merits of either material.
The real reason for manufacturing frames from carbon fibre is lower production costs and higher margins.
And fashion and marketing. Don't forget fashion and marketing.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
I wasn't, it's the higher margins..Matthewfalle wrote:darkhairedlord wrote:SurferCyclist wrote:Matthewfalle wrote:Oh - an impartial article from a company that makes carbon bits for cars and so wants to sell you carbon bits for your car not an ali bike frame?
Deary you indeed. No problem though, we forgive you. We are kind like that.
Thanks. It was just an example of how by volume CF is lighter than aluminium that's all.
My wife's sponge cake is lighter than both, by volume. I wouldn't want to make a frame out of it though.
mass/volume is density. Doesn't say anything about strength or stiffness.
You need Yield Strength/Density and Young's Modulus/Density. Those would be better to measure the merits of either material.
The real reason for manufacturing frames from carbon fibre is lower production costs and higher margins.
And fashion and marketing. Don't forget fashion and marketing.0 -
Because that is what the mechanic put on the bike for them to use. It's about risk; if the bike gets dropped its going to impact the bars. Do you let it go off down the side of a mountain hoping its going to be ok or take off the bar tape and check its not been cracked. If you exceed the yield strength on aluminium it will show permanent deformation so you know its been excessively loaded, with Carbon fibre it will likely exceed the UTS as well and crack with no obvious indication through deformation.Matthewfalle wrote:Some have an ali steerer......................................
And why is it that PROs run ali bars and stems?0 -
darkhairedlord wrote:
Because that is what the mechanic put on the bike for them to use. It's about risk; if the bike gets dropped its going to impact the bars. Do you let it go off down the side of a mountain hoping its going to be ok or take off the bar tape and check its not been cracked. If you exceed the yield strength on aluminium it will show permanent deformation so you know its been excessively loaded, with Carbon fibre it will likely exceed the UTS as well and crack with no obvious indication through deformation.Matthewfalle wrote:Some have an ali steerer......................................
And why is it that PROs run ali bars and stems?
Really?
Surely riders at that level have a say in what bars and stem they use?
Now, although I am pretty damn good at 99% of stuff I'm also pretty sure that the riders don't just turn up and go "cool, Edwyn has got me some new bars today - lets race the Tour and give them a bash then".
I now that if blokey at the shop just whacked on any old bars on my race bike without consulting me as to material/shape/etc preference I may be a tad indignant.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
darkhairedlord wrote:SurferCyclist wrote:Matthewfalle wrote:Oh - an impartial article from a company that makes carbon bits for cars and so wants to sell you carbon bits for your car not an ali bike frame?
Deary you indeed. No problem though, we forgive you. We are kind like that.
Thanks. It was just an example of how by volume CF is lighter than aluminium that's all.
My wife's sponge cake is lighter than both, by volume. I wouldn't want to make a frame out of it though.
mass/volume is density. Doesn't say anything about strength or stiffness.
You need Yield Strength/Density and Young's Modulus/Density. Those would be better to measure the merits of either material.
The real reason for manufacturing frames from carbon fibre is lower production costs and higher margins.
Any pictures of same said aforementioned sponge cake?Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Don't worry about weight, my 'good bike' is 7.45kg inc pedals cages etc etc whereas my winter bike is 10.75kg and includes mud guards, cages etc and on my 40km training loop there is little or nothing between them In terms of time, maybe a few minutes at most. The winter bike is by far and away the most comfortable and the bike I take most days regardless of the weather.0
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And at the end of the day remember that water and rain doesn't affect ali like carbon.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
But Aluminium alloy is the best thing since sliced bread. But all carbon bikes are rubbish, but you buy a carbon fibre bike?Matthewfalle wrote:ZMC888 wrote:
Whatever. The last bike you bought is the best one in the whole wide world, like ever.Matthewfalle wrote:ZMC888 wrote:
I own 10 bikes made from many materials, I have no horse in the race.Matthewfalle wrote:JGSI wrote:It does actually grind my gears when someone with very limited knowledge posts that alloy frames are inferior to cf just because.
Idiot.
This and ZMC above unfortunately is a prime candidate.
Methinks he believes the hype.
You own an aluminium alloy bike. It's called Choice-supportive bias.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias
I also own carbon fibre and steel bikes and Dirk - he is made from unobtainium and Spinergy and has been, 5 years running, voted the coolest bike on BR by the forumites out of all the bikes that have appeared on Br, be it by forumites or on the front page.
I am sorry that you don't own Dirk but no one will ever own him except maybe TDNFNATN or AndyCP.
no its not actually. the last bike I got was my Madone and its well, very nice average if you know what I mean.
Only Dirk is coolest bike ever. Maybe not the best, but PROVEN to be the coolest by a nautical kilometre. PROVEN FACT.
Plus why register all the fake user names? It seems kind of sad.0 -
ZMC888 wrote:
But when then do you like aluminium sh!tty CRAP HARSH RIDING ALU Alloy if you have a Madone. You like eating porky pies mate?????? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:Matthewfalle wrote:ZMC888 wrote:
Whatever. The last bike you bought is the best one in the whole wide world, like ever.Matthewfalle wrote:ZMC888 wrote:
I own 10 bikes made from many materials, I have no horse in the race.Matthewfalle wrote:JGSI wrote:It does actually grind my gears when someone with very limited knowledge posts that alloy frames are inferior to cf just because.
Idiot.
This and ZMC above unfortunately is a prime candidate.
Methinks he believes the hype.
You own an aluminium alloy bike. It's called Choice-supportive bias.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias
I also own carbon fibre and steel bikes and Dirk - he is made from unobtainium and Spinergy and has been, 5 years running, voted the coolest bike on BR by the forumites out of all the bikes that have appeared on Br, be it by forumites or on the front page.
I am sorry that you don't own Dirk but no one will ever own him except maybe TDNFNATN or AndyCP.
no its not actually. the last bike I got was my Madone and its well, very nice average if you know what I mean.
Only Dirk is coolest bike ever. Maybe not the best, but PROVEN to be the coolest by a nautical kilometre. PROVEN FACT.
Because n1 is nicer to ride, stiffer, handles better, feels faster, looks nicer, turns more heads. It's also a kilo lighter and makes me smile. It's seriously lush. To paraphrase The Italian Job: pretty bicycle. Pretty, pretty bicycle.
Don't get me wrong, if you didn't know any different you would be over the moon with the Madone but as I said, it's very nice average. Lots of people love them but if it got smashed up or nicked I'd shrug, claim off the insurance and get a new Cervelo - probably an ali one then upgrade the wheels.
And yes, I do like pies (especially Pukka Pies' steak and onion) but I'm also immeasurably toned and fit. Blokes want to buy me beer, women want to shag me.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
How's your Mum's basement?Matthewfalle wrote:ZMC888 wrote:
But when then do you like aluminium sh!tty CRAP HARSH RIDING ALU Alloy if you have a Madone. You like eating porky pies mate?????? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:Matthewfalle wrote:ZMC888 wrote:
Whatever. The last bike you bought is the best one in the whole wide world, like ever.Matthewfalle wrote:ZMC888 wrote:
I own 10 bikes made from many materials, I have no horse in the race.Matthewfalle wrote:JGSI wrote:It does actually grind my gears when someone with very limited knowledge posts that alloy frames are inferior to cf just because.
Idiot.
This and ZMC above unfortunately is a prime candidate.
Methinks he believes the hype.
You own an aluminium alloy bike. It's called Choice-supportive bias.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias
I also own carbon fibre and steel bikes and Dirk - he is made from unobtainium and Spinergy and has been, 5 years running, voted the coolest bike on BR by the forumites out of all the bikes that have appeared on Br, be it by forumites or on the front page.
I am sorry that you don't own Dirk but no one will ever own him except maybe TDNFNATN or AndyCP.
no its not actually. the last bike I got was my Madone and its well, very nice average if you know what I mean.
Only Dirk is coolest bike ever. Maybe not the best, but PROVEN to be the coolest by a nautical kilometre. PROVEN FACT.
Because n1 is nicer to ride, stiffer, handles better, feels faster, looks nicer, turns more heads. It's also a kilo lighter and makes me smile. It's seriously lush. To paraphrase The Italian Job: pretty bicycle. Pretty, pretty bicycle.
Don't get me wrong, if you didn't know any different you would be over the moon with the Madone but as I said, it's very nice average. Lots of people love them but if it got smashed up or nicked I'd shrug, claim off the insurance and get a new Cervelo - probably an ali one then upgrade the wheels.
And yes, I do like pies (especially Pukka Pies' steak and onion) but I'm also immeasurably toned and fit. Blokes want to buy me beer, women want to shag me.
What medication are you on?
How often do you have appointments at the head doctor?
Harsh that Aluminium bike that you actually own.0 -
Stiff, not harsh, but far better a bike all round than the Madone. Sorry.
I presume that you aspire after a Madone?Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
WTF is going on here???0
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But when then do you like aluminium sh!tty CRAP HARSH RIDING ALU Alloy if you have a Madone. You like eating porky pies mate?????? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Not sure who posted the above as it appears to have been edited out, but there's no real reason for an aluminium bike to be any of those things if the designer/builder selects the correct tubes and geometry. Equally it's perfectly possible to make a carbon frame bike that is all of them. My current titanium bike is way stiffer than the carbon fibre Ribble Gran Fondo I once owned because the frame builder had outright speed in mind and the Ribble was designed for long days in the saddle. I haven't ridden a modern steel bike but the roadtests of the latest generation of steel racebikes suggest that they're a long way from the heavy, forgiving and comfortable rides my dad used to have in the 60s and 70s. In conclusion, I think some of your ideas are based on outdated and disproven ideas.0 -
Some bloke is saying that my Madone is better than my n1 race bike which isn't a Madone but is better than a Madone and didn't believe me when I said that n1 bike was better than a Madone so got all abusive.
Bizarrely enough, isn't just me who should know which is the better bike as they are both mine?Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Shortfall wrote:But when then do you like aluminium sh!tty CRAP HARSH RIDING ALU Alloy if you have a Madone. You like eating porky pies mate?????? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Not sure who posted the above as it appears to have been edited out, but there's no real reason for an aluminium bike to be any of those things if the designer/builder selects the correct tubes and geometry. Equally it's perfectly possible to make a carbon frame bike that is all of them. My current titanium bike is way stiffer than the carbon fibre Ribble Gran Fondo I once owned because the frame builder had outright speed in mind and the Ribble was designed for long days in the saddle. I haven't ridden a modern steel bike but the roadtests of the latest generation of steel racebikes suggest that they're a long way from the heavy, forgiving and comfortable rides my dad used to have in the 60s and 70s. In conclusion, I think some of your ideas are based on outdated and disproven ideas.
ZMC888 posted it then realized that perhaps he had overstepped the mark being abusive about his perception of people's weight and then decided to start questioning his perception of people's mental health, which, much like most of you guys, I find a bit of a weird subject to try and make "jokes" about.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
cld531c wrote:WTF is going on here???
I like the way you did that - sort of Sargent major meets old school teacher meets old school plod walking into an orgy.
Authoritarian yet incredulous.Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honoursmithy21 wrote:
He's right you know.0 -
Matthewfalle wrote:cld531c wrote:WTF is going on here???
I like the way you did that - sort of Sargent major meets old school teacher meets old school plod walking into an orgy.
Authoritarian yet incredulous.
Thats me. 0 -
really don't understand why people are wasting time arguing over al and cf
the correct choice is steel, stainless steelmy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0
