Dummies guide to a FTP Test!

SR7492

Been cycling for a good few years but decided I get on the PM band wagon

Just purchased a Stages PM and will get it on the bike this weekend.

So, what is the best way to go about doing a FTP?

From what I've been told turbo is better; I have a Tacx Satori that I can use.

Do I download TrainerRoad and use their FTP session?

What gear should I be using . . . something not to easy or hard but can sustain for 20 mins?

Thanks in advance!

burnthesheep

You need to ride for a little bit on the turbo with the meter for a few workouts with some steady state intervals or over/unders before your first test. Otherwise your pacing won't be very good (too hard or too easy). Interval workouts will give you a better idea of what pace to try it out at.

Once it is time to do it, warmup is paramount, just like for a 10 mile time trial. Easy spinning up to an endurance pace for a few minutes, then throw in maybe one few minute power interval. Then you're ready to go.

On a turbo, you need a fan and a water bottle. Don't underestimate overheating and the cost on your power.

I'd highly suggest buying a training book to learn about training with power before picking training plans or randomly doing online workouts from Zwift or trainer road.

I'll warn you, training with power WORKS. But you pay for it. It keeps you seriously honest on pushing watts during workouts and training rides. No lazy easy spinning when you should be in a steady state power zone. The meter will point out the error in your ways!

If the plan is properly challenging, there will be a workout at some point that makes you question your choices in life or swear that the power meter is lying.

poynedexter

i agree with the above. ride with your pm to get a feel for whats possible and how different watts feel. make sure you set your garmin to count zeros. also bear in mind that you may get a different result on a turbo vs the road for ftp. if you are setting zones, i'd test on both. and put your ego away, the pm will suffer no fools.

wongataa

SR7492 wrote:

What gear should I be using . . . something not to easy or hard but can sustain for 20 mins?

What matters is you use a gear/resistance/cadence combination that gives you a power output that you can sustain for the test. Whether the gear used on your bike's drive train is low or high doesn't matter.

The main issue you will have with FTP tests is pacing. This will be hard to get right at first. You need to find a power output you can sustain for the test periods and then have your legs give up just as the test period ends. This will take a bit of practice to get right.

It is a lot easier doing these tests on a turbo trainer as you would need a suitable road outside where you can maintain your chosen power output for 2x8 minutes or 20 minutes (depending on test variant). This is hard outside as that sort of road will be very rare.

On the British Cycling website there is are good warmup and 20 minute FTP test plans and a calculator to give you the FTP from the test results.

I just did a FTP test. It was horrible. Be prepared for that. They are really unpleasant whilst you are doing them. If they aren't you aren't putting enough effort in.

SR7492

Awesome guys - thank you :-)

In terms of pacing, I was thinking of riding at around 220/230W; I think I can hold this but lets see how it goes.

Shall I get the PM on the bike, do a few social rides to make sure it is calibrated right/all working before jumping on the Turbo for the FTP?

Goal for next year is to increase my Threshold and have a good go at the Cat 4/3 crit races.

Thanks again guys - great advice

VamP

I do my test outdoors, as that is where I mainly train/race. I have a turbo FTP too, this is significantly different to my outdoor one.

I do the Coggan test, with the 5 minute VO2max interval first. I find the 2x8 or skipping the 5 minute interval results in overestimated FTP.

I have a good local road for the 20 minute test, mostly uphill and always use the same section, with as many variables (time of day, level of fatigue, nutrition) kept constant.

fenix

I'd get happy on the turbo before using it for your FTP test. It is terrible if you do it right. You won't want to repeat it that often,

joe2008

If you're going to do it on a turbo: warm up, then do a 1 hour test.

Your 'ftp' from that test will probably be considerably lower than 95% of a 20 minute test, or 90% of 2x8 minutes, or any other sub hour combination you choose to do.

VamP

Nobody really does 1 hour tests. Well the testing fraternity do, but they call it racing.

Can't think of anything more unpleasant than doing it on a turbo.

svetty

SR7492 wrote:

In terms of pacing, I was thinking of riding at around 220/230W; I think I can hold this but lets see how it goes.

You really haven't sussed this have you

If you ride at 220/230 watts your FTP will be 95% of 225 - simple - so no need to do the test in the first place :roll:

The whole point is to go AS HARD AS YOU CAN for the test and not predetermine your power beforehand.

fat daddy

Svetty wrote:

The whole point is to go AS HARD AS YOU CAN for the test and not predetermine your power beforehand.

but ... dont go full out otherwise you will blow after about 30 seconds, so pace yourself ..... normally this is done at around 5% above your FTP

oh hang one :?

slowbike

Both my wife and I did FTP tests on the turbo recently.
I'm used to riding TTs, she isn't.
Watt was interesting was that whilst I went too hard initially, I quickly settled down to a pace and heartrate leveled out. She went too hard, dipped, then did a rollercoaster of power/hr as she struggled to balance the two.
I think I could've pushed myself a smidge harder - she was done in at the end.

FTP in the wild or on the turbo? It's far easier to control conditions on the turbo - so as long as you're accustomed to riding the turbo you can repeat the test to see improvements (or lack of) - and you can train anywhere.

kingstongraham

Svetty wrote:

SR7492 wrote:

In terms of pacing, I was thinking of riding at around 220/230W; I think I can hold this but lets see how it goes.

You really haven't sussed this have you

If you ride at 220/230 watts your FTP will be 95% of 225 - simple - so no need to do the test in the first place :roll:

The whole point is to go AS HARD AS YOU CAN for the test and not predetermine your power beforehand.

It sounds like a decent starting point - a power you think you can hold for the duration of the test but are not sure. Might need to readjust up or down partway through if it feels too easy or you can't maintain it. Will need to retest once you know what the right power should feel like.

Going AS HARD AS YOU CAN is not possible for 20 minutes.

VamP

I agree, everyone has some sort of number in mind at the start of the test, and maybe go a bit above if feeling good, or fail to sustain it if not. Mentally I tend to divide it into quarters, with the third quarter always feeling the hardest.

A good test will have third and fourth quarters similar AP as the first two, whereas a bad test will tail off. Similarly if fourth quarter is much higher than previous three then you paced too conservatively.

daniel_b

Slowbike wrote:

Both my wife and I did FTP tests on the turbo recently.
I'm used to riding TTs, she isn't.
Watt was interesting was that whilst I went too hard initially, I quickly settled down to a pace and heartrate leveled out. She went too hard, dipped, then did a rollercoaster of power/hr as she struggled to balance the two.
I think I could've pushed myself a smidge harder - she was done in at the end.

FTP in the wild or on the turbo? It's far easier to control conditions on the turbo - so as long as you're accustomed to riding the turbo you can repeat the test to see improvements (or lack of) - and you can train anywhere.

I see, ummmm, watt you did there!

Personally, imho for your first ftp, you should have no figures in mind, and simply ride on feel, checking every minute to see if you need to drop, or can up the effort.
I say the above, especially as perhaps you are not a seasoned turbo addict?

I would deffo have a cadence in mind, and hopefully know what kind of hr you would be looking to be maxing at.

Once you have your first one out of the way, things become a lot easier.

I do actually enjoy them, in a weird kind of way, but then I like over/unders too!

Key question - do you have a decent fan, or any fan?

SR7492

Great comments guys, thank you.

I think I will just go on feel rather than holding a number. Going to do a couple of turbo sessions to get back to using the thing and then do the FTP when I have had a few days rest, so this will be in the next couple of weeks.

I'll report back and let you know WATT the results are ;-)

Thanks again!

daniel_b

SR7492 wrote:

Great comments guys, thank you.

I think I will just go on feel rather than holding a number. Going to do a couple of turbo sessions to get back to using the thing and then do the FTP when I have had a few days rest, so this will be in the next couple of weeks.

I'll report back and let you know WATT the results are ;-)

Thanks again!

Yep please let us know how ou get on, and what your starting figure is!

I only started properly in January this year, and was disheartened by an FTP of 117 (!) due to me going way too hard at the beginning, and crashing and burning badly, but that was after 6 months of very little activity, and in reality I might have been 140 at most.
9 months on, and I now have an FTP of 234 (Just realised that is exactly double!), though that is also a little low, as despite several good FTP tests inbetween, this one I carried out when having the beginnings of a cold, though didn't fully realise it at the time, and also not enough sleep - the end result was a strong, but tough first 8, and then 3 minutes into the second session I capitulated in a major way, and just spun out to the end :-(

What I tend to do for a turbo ride or two before my FTP test (Once i have a number to aim for), is to scope out what likely gear and level of resistance i need to apply.
I generally use 3rd or 4th gear, for the cleanest chainline, and my last FTP, I think I had 24% resistance etc
I trialled this in a couple of sessions before and could see at my chosen cadence of circa 90, it gave me the kind of power i was hoping to put out, and I thought I could hold it.

No use for your upcoming one overly, but could be useful for future ones, otherwise you waste a lot of time hunting around different gears, and messing with resistance levels, which is never going to help your overall final figure.

Good luck!

SR7492

Thanks Daniel :-)

slowbike

Daniel B wrote:

I see, ummmm, watt you did there!

Daniel B wrote:

Personally, imho for your first ftp, you should have no figures in mind, and simply ride on feel, checking every minute to see if you need to drop, or can up the effort.
I say the above, especially as perhaps you are not a seasoned turbo addict?

I would deffo have a cadence in mind, and hopefully know what kind of hr you would be looking to be maxing at.

Once you have your first one out of the way, things become a lot easier.

I do actually enjoy them, in a weird kind of way, but then I like over/unders too!

Key question - do you have a decent fan, or any fan?

No, I'm not a seasoned turbo addict - but I have ridden it a bit - should do a bit more, but I find it's easier to get out on the road where I can't just get off ....
Knowing a cadence and HR - that just extrapolates into power doesn't it? I've got a PM on my road & TT bike - so had an idea of what I was capable of - and constantly pushed it as hard as I thought I could.

Yes, it's a lot easier once you have got the experience of pushing yourself hard for the required time.

I don't bother with a fan as the turbo is outside (covered area) - and it's chilly enough now

daniel_b

Fair play SB - contrastingly I find it easier, or should that be harder, to turbo, well now I am on structured programs, as it controls the resistance for me, and there is NO escape or easing off from the prescribed program.
if it says I need to hold 198 watts for 12 minutes, then that is what I must do - the only thing I can decide is the cadence, and the position on the bike, the output will be the same.
I never like to not complete a session, and to date have only had one fail in over 150.
On an outdoor ride, I find it easy to lose concentration, drop the power, soft pedal, or freewheel down a hill etc, but I admire those who can train as well outside - and I do love riding outside, but don't get as much opportunity as I used to.

The reason I mentioned cadence and HR, is that I thought a fair few people may have that already, prior to encountering power, that was my journey anyway, so I already had an idea of my max HR figures, and what cadence I was good at - although since hitting the structured workouts that has increased hugely!

You are a better man than me for going sans fan, I really need that moving air, and I don't think I would be able to put out the watts without it - even in the depths of winter in my detached garage I need some air movement!

slowbike

Oh, I find it easier to ride outdoors - not to follow specifics - it's mildly hilly around here so you have to put a bit of effort in. What I like about the outdoors as a training session is that once you're 20 miles from home - you're an hour away - no matter what you do (taxi isn't an option) - so if you've had enough you still have to pedal home and the faster you pedal, the quicker you get back ...
whereas on a turbo it's relatively easy to convince yourself that you've done all you can and really should be getting some jobs done and it's only x minutes remaining so it can't hurt to get off now oh there you go you've stopped and put the kettle on.... or the door bell goes or the phone rings etc etc ...
Of course, 60 minutes on the turbo is 60 minutes - whereas 60 minutes on the road is a lot of coasting, waiting at junctions, soft pedalling etc etc.

Doing an FTP test blind isn't going to work - which is why my wife's power curve roller coasted through to the end. If she went back in and did it again she'd have a better idea of how long she could sustain the effort - be that measured HR, power or just feel.

Lack of fan - the covered area is outside, so there's still a bit of breeze - I tend to dress light anyway - well, warm up then strip a top layer off - I've got a fan, just haven't bothered with it - it really needs to be an ANT+ fan to increase speed with power ....

lochindaal

Within your warm up you would normally do 5mins at around FTP with 10mins rest before doing the 20min effort. If you try what you think you can hold for the 20mins within your 5min section you will get a good idea where to start on your main try.

Other option is to do 2 x 8min efforts and take 90% of the best one. This gives you a chance to get it really wrong in one of the tests.

I think the 20min one gives a more "honest" answer as mentally it is harder.

joe2008

lochindaal wrote:

I think the 20min one gives a more "honest" answer as mentally it is harder.

If you're after an 'honest' answer, and assuming that you are defining FTP as the highest average power you can sustain for an hour, why not test yourself for the hour? It's not supposed to be easy.

lochindaal

If you're after an 'honest' answer, and assuming that you are defining FTP as the highest average power you can sustain for an hour, why not test yourself for the hour? It's not supposed to be easy.

Because then you have trashed yourself so much you can't recover and continue with your training program, hence I put honest in " ". This is why you do a 20min test.

If going for an hour makes you feel good then by all means continue,not sure it will be of any benefit to the OP who has never done one before.

burnthesheep

joe2008 wrote:

lochindaal wrote:

I think the 20min one gives a more "honest" answer as mentally it is harder.

If you're after an 'honest' answer, and assuming that you are defining FTP as the highest average power you can sustain for an hour, why not test yourself for the hour? It's not supposed to be easy.

For 90% of the people in this forum, 20 min will do. In my opinion, based on the kind of riding I see people posting about in here. A test on lots of turbos indoors will be bollocks anyway since almost nobody owns a large enough fan to stay cool enough for a 20 min test to not get skewed low. Not to mention the effects of a 1 hour test. And a 1 hour test is pretty much bollocks outdoors unless you're on a windless day on a cycling track.

In the US anyway, most Cat 5 and 4 races max out at about 90 minutes. When, during a 90 minute race, are you going to use a solo 60 minute effort at threshold? Then Cat 3 and 2 races are usually about 2 1/2 hours.

There are very limited cases for an amateur that 1-hour ftp tests would make any sense, those would be time trials (including hill climbs) or Ironman.

The MOST important part of the ftp test is determining a training stress wattage value to plug into your plan. A lot of plans use results of 20 minute and 8 minute tests to form the plans.

I feel the "amount of time" for an ftp test can become a circle jerk instead of a constructive training mechanism when we start using it as a brag instead of a tool. "Wellllllll, I did MY ftp test for an hour. Bob over there only did his at 20 minutes, so Bob must be a weak rider."

sloppyschleckonds

burnthesheep wrote:

I feel the "amount of time" for an ftp test can become a circle jerk instead of a constructive training mechanism when we start using it as a brag instead of a tool. "Wellllllll, I did MY ftp test for an hour. Bob over there only did his at 20 minutes, so Bob must be a weak rider."

Try and stop posting nonsense

Lookyhere

joe2008 wrote:

lochindaal wrote:

I think the 20min one gives a more "honest" answer as mentally it is harder.

If you're after an 'honest' answer, and assuming that you are defining FTP as the highest average power you can sustain for an hour, why not test yourself for the hour? It's not supposed to be easy.

Very difficult to judge pacing and maintain the mental focus for 60mins.

You are after a figure that gives a reasonable estimate under ideal conditions, that is repeatable (to track improvement) and can be used for training zones.

You ll never get a truly honest answer, outside of being chased by a Doberman for 60mins.

I like the Sufferfest FTP test, ramps up the effort every 5mins and then avg power for the 20mins, keeps you focused.

Alex_Simmons/RST

FTP is not 60-min power but rather a 60-min effort is one way to estimate FTP, a good way if the right conditions permit. The duration one can sustain riding in a quasi steady state at FTP is typically in the 40-70 minutes range.

There are however several ways to estimate FTP. Use of a good power duration model with quality input data, and the power you can repeatedly sustain during regular longer intervals are a couple of other very good ways.

As to the OP, I recommend simply riding as you have been for a couple of weeks and collect the data, it will be helpful to get an objective understanding of what riding/training you've been doing as well as become familiar with the operation and use of the power meter and computer. Make sure you do the things needed to ensure good data such as getting used to checking the power meter's torque zero each day before you ride.

As to when you are ready to test your physiological characteristics, what you need to test for and the methods you use will depend somewhat on what your goals are and the riding environments you have available to you.

As some have mentioned, for longer efforts the power you can sustain on an indoor trainer may not be reflective of the power you can sustain outdoors and there are several reasons for that, so you'll also need some time to understand whether that's the case and what the difference is for you.

If you really want to do a test using the indoor trainer, perhaps an incremental test to exhaustion such a a MAP test would be a better choice (provide you are suitably healthy to do such a test). It largely removes the pacing challenge and it doesn't take too long. You might want to do a trial run first and then the test proper a few+ days later.

Here's a link to an item I wrote over a decade ago describing such a test:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2006/ ... ccess.html

As a rough guide, FTP for most falls in the range of 72-77% of MAP.

Over time if you have enough hard rides in your data, at least enough rides with hard efforts that cover a range of the power-duration spectrum (e.g. a maximal sprint, max efforts in the 30-60 sec range, 3-5 minutes and a longer effort in the 20-30 minute range should be sufficient), modern power duration models provide a pretty decent estimate of not only your FTP but also other key physiological characteristics and your phenotype, which are helpful in guiding your training priorities.

cougie

joe2008 wrote:

lochindaal wrote:

I think the 20min one gives a more "honest" answer as mentally it is harder.

If you're after an 'honest' answer, and assuming that you are defining FTP as the highest average power you can sustain for an hour, why not test yourself for the hour? It's not supposed to be easy.

That's stupid. After a good 20 mins test you'll be wrecked. Last time I did it is slept so deeply my wife checked me to see if I'd died....

Doing an hour would require a long recovery - which kind of gets in the way of training.

joe2008

cougie wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

lochindaal wrote:

I think the 20min one gives a more "honest" answer as mentally it is harder.

If you're after an 'honest' answer, and assuming that you are defining FTP as the highest average power you can sustain for an hour, why not test yourself for the hour? It's not supposed to be easy.

That's stupid. After a good 20 mins test you'll be wrecked. Last time I did it is slept so deeply my wife checked me to see if I'd died....

Doing an hour would require a long recovery - which kind of gets in the way of training.

Do you think you could keep up 95% of that effort for an hour?

bobmcstuff

joe2008 wrote:

cougie wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

lochindaal wrote:

I think the 20min one gives a more "honest" answer as mentally it is harder.

If you're after an 'honest' answer, and assuming that you are defining FTP as the highest average power you can sustain for an hour, why not test yourself for the hour? It's not supposed to be easy.

That's stupid. After a good 20 mins test you'll be wrecked. Last time I did it is slept so deeply my wife checked me to see if I'd died....

Doing an hour would require a long recovery - which kind of gets in the way of training.

Do you think you could keep up 95% of that effort for an hour?

As Alex has said above and many times elsewhere, FTP isn't necessarily the same as hour power anyway so it makes about as much sense to test for 60 minutes as it does anything else.