Cheap, reliable runaround car or future classic
Comments
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Don't bother he's as unreliable as an unloved Austin Allegro.Pinno wrote:I would love a clean unmolested M3 E30 but I quite like the idea of a Porsche 944 - mainly because they are pretty cheap at the mo and prefer the styling to the ridiculous 928.
But that bloody VN bloke won't elaborate on the S2, despite asking him. I presume 'series 2' as opposed to series 1?
Maybe i'll PM the tw@t.
Mate's on holiday at the moment. Yes, it's an S2 and it's red. It's near Manchester.0 -
Veronese68 wrote:
Don't bother he's as unreliable as an unloved Austin Allegro.Pinno wrote:I would love a clean unmolested M3 E30 but I quite like the idea of a Porsche 944 - mainly because they are pretty cheap at the mo and prefer the styling to the ridiculous 928.
But that bloody VN bloke won't elaborate on the S2, despite asking him. I presume 'series 2' as opposed to series 1?
Maybe i'll PM the tw@t.
Mate's on holiday at the moment. Yes, it's an S2 and it's red. It's near Manchester.
...but you said 'don't get an s1, get an s2' in other words. Why?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Apparently they are a better car and more reliable. So better all round. Just looked at 911 buying guides and it seems I'm correct.Pinno wrote:...but you said 'don't get an s1, get an s2' in other words. Why?Porsche Club GB wrote:The 190bhp, 16-valve 944S didn't sell in any great numbers mainly because the performance was disappointing and it didn't sound much like a twin-cam should, but the later 211bhp, 3-litre S2 was arguably the best all round 944 of them all, being notable for its good power flexibility.Pistonheads wrote:Many enthusiasts rate the 211bhp S2 as the best all round 944 however, with its torquey & free revving 3.0 litre normally aspirated engine.0 -
Veronese68 wrote:
Apparently they are a better car and more reliable. So better all round. Just looked at 911 buying guides and it seems I'm correct.Pinno wrote:...but you said 'don't get an s1, get an s2' in other words. Why?Porsche Club GB wrote:The 190bhp, 16-valve 944S didn't sell in any great numbers mainly because the performance was disappointing and it didn't sound much like a twin-cam should, but the later 211bhp, 3-litre S2 was arguably the best all round 944 of them all, being notable for its good power flexibility.Pistonheads wrote:Many enthusiasts rate the 211bhp S2 as the best all round 944 however, with its torquey & free revving 3.0 litre normally aspirated engine.
Thank you.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Pinno wrote:darkhairedlord wrote:205 gti.
Mk3 escorts rs 1600i or rs turbo.
Mk1 fiesta xr2
Late model Mk1 golf gti, campaign model.
Mk2 capri, any model.
All other cars in 80s were rubbish and should be avoided.
Sierra Cosworth?
Peugeot 205 Gti?
Audi Quattro?
Lancia Delta Integrale?
E30 BMW - with that lovely straight six (or the gorgeous C2, 2/7 Alpina)?
Not that any of the above would be cheap but that's beside the point.
E30 Alpina very subtle and very nice
Could I add a Lotus Carlton to that list,a very nice sleeper car0 -
About 12 years ago I sold my GSXR1000 as I had accumulated a few to many points in my licence,I was going to buy one of these and keep it as a toy as I already had a van for normal duties,but I got distracted by a VW beach buggy,if only I had stuck to the original plan,quite a lot of classics just seem to have gone mad in price in the last 10 years,a bit like 2 stroke motorcycles havePBlakeney wrote:
A guy I knew tried to sell me his mint Quattro for £6k 15-20 years ago.Pinno wrote:...
Audi Quattro?
...
Not that any of the above would be cheap but that's beside the point.
I turned him down. :oops:0 -
eric draven wrote:Pinno wrote:darkhairedlord wrote:205 gti.
Mk3 escorts rs 1600i or rs turbo.
Mk1 fiesta xr2
Late model Mk1 golf gti, campaign model.
Mk2 capri, any model.
All other cars in 80s were rubbish and should be avoided.
Sierra Cosworth?
Peugeot 205 Gti?
Audi Quattro?
Lancia Delta Integrale?
E30 BMW - with that lovely straight six (or the gorgeous C2, 2/7 Alpina)?
Not that any of the above would be cheap but that's beside the point.
E30 Alpina very subtle and very nice
Could I add a Lotus Carlton to that list,a very nice sleeper car
A rocket powered Barge? No.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Never mind the 1000 a slab sided GSXR is worth a crazy amount of money nowadays.eric draven wrote:About 12 years ago I sold my GSXR1000...
Maybe more power than handling is what makes for a classic.0 -
Would love slab sided 750 in red black and white,used go past a motorbike shop on my way home from school when I was about 14-15 years old,and would to drool at one through window,proper looking bike,used to like the Honda RC30 as wellVeronese68 wrote:
Never mind the 1000 a slab sided GSXR is worth a crazy amount of money nowadays.eric draven wrote:About 12 years ago I sold my GSXR1000...
Maybe more power than handling is what makes for a classic.0 -
Jake's suggestion of the mk1 Audi tt is on the money and is what a lot of young peeps are talking about now -- a good indicator of a future classic.
I'm partial to old two stroke bikes and have a nice one I ride quite often. Would also love to have a BMW K1 in classic red and yellow.0 -
I wonder if the idea of classic cars is going to be so much of a thing in the future. The glory days of the petrol motorcar are probably past.
I'm just not sure modern cars play the same role in our culture now, more functional than aspirational, increasingly restricted, something that society is moving away from rather than a symbol of modernity.
The Audi TT may be a fine car but nobody grew up messing about in Audi TTs in their youth and is going to hanker to relive that as they get older, nobody outside of qualified mechanics would do much work on that kind of car so it's not a hobbyists car, the design isn't quirky, they aren't a super car that young boys have on their wall, it doesn't define an era in the way a mini or a beetle might be said to. I have an interest in in old scooters but when I see people paying 5,6,7 grand for a Lambretta I wonder how long that market can last. Once the current middle aged are past reliving their youth - whether that's a Lambretta, an FS1E or GT185, a mini or an escort who is going to be interested in this stuff and are there modern equivalents coming through?[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Good post - especially when cars are almost viewed as throw away items nowadays. What with PCP.
My first car was a £100 1.3 1984 VW Golf in 2001. Orange, with straw seats, starter motor needed persuading with a hammer most mornings and I'd have it back in an instant.
Just seeing an old sierra/cavalier will put a smile on my face like a new lambo/bentley never will.0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:I wonder if the idea of classic cars is going to be so much of a thing in the future. The glory days of the petrol motorcar are probably past.
I'm just not sure modern cars play the same role in our culture now, more functional than aspirational, increasingly restricted, something that society is moving away from rather than a symbol of modernity.
The Audi TT may be a fine car but nobody grew up messing about in Audi TTs in their youth and is going to hanker to relive that as they get older, nobody outside of qualified mechanics would do much work on that kind of car so it's not a hobbyists car, the design isn't quirky, they aren't a super car that young boys have on their wall, it doesn't define an era in the way a mini or a beetle might be said to. I have an interest in in old scooters but when I see people paying 5,6,7 grand for a Lambretta I wonder how long that market can last. Once the current middle aged are past reliving their youth - whether that's a Lambretta, an FS1E or GT185, a mini or an escort who is going to be interested in this stuff and are there modern equivalents coming through?
My thoughts exactly -- couldn't have put it any better and although the youth didn't get to tinker with cars like audi tt's we shouldn't judge them using the experience we over 50's had with our rubbish cars. This market comes and goes, I remember when the bottom fell completely out of the classic car market, the present market has been driven in part by the weakness and devaluation or potential devaluation of currency due to the money printing that has been going on for the last 10 years so classic cars are seen as a legitimate store of value. One benefit of owning a classic is that there is no CGT on a car when you sell it cos vehicles are seen as an asset that will not be of any value after 50 years although I expect my old beetle will be here long after me. One thing I do know about them is get one that doesn't need restoration and hasn't had major work done then maintain it yourself as far as possible. If its been welded to within an inch of its life " run Dougal run quite fast " away from it no matter how good it looks.0 -
I agree. The market is shrinking in terms of people interested in old cars, a lot of youngsters can't be bothered. My son loves his old Mini, but he is unusual in that respect. His mates think it's really cool, but not enough that they'd look after something like that. They are amazed if something goes wrong and the boy opens the bonnet and fixes it.
My wife keeps telling me to sell the Bonnie as it's just sitting in the garage in bits. But it doesn't take up a lot of space (the frame is hanging from the rook), it's gaining in value and when I have more time I will rebuild it.0 -
Some sensible stuff in here but I think you are underestimating the current generation a little.
2 door Sierra shells fetch a fortune, even bog standard 1.3GL's for Cosworth look alike jobs - just ask Fudgey. Ford Escort MK1 and MK2's have been bought up because they are still being rallied, which has pushed unmolested Mk1's and 2's price up and up. 2 or 4 door regardless. Anyway, MK1 and MK2 Ford escorts are so easy to maintain and there's cross over with parts such as the rear struts on a RS2000 is the same as the MK2 and 3 Capri's(? IIRC, even the Ford Transit rear diff fits 2 litre RS's of that era!), so not too bad to get spares for.
My mate who is in his early 30's, parents never owned a mini, has spent £22k on his '87 Mayfair. It's a stunning job. He wants an original Cooper next.
I have a friend who is also in his mid thirties who owns a Renault Alpine V6 (fibre glass job).
My other friend in Eastbourne has 1 Renault 5 turbo and 2 Gordini Turbo's plus a Lotus Talbot in JPS colours, fully restored.
None of the cars these people own have any direct experience of owning or driving them in their youth; maybe some sentiment from sitting in the passenger seat or seeing them on telly but nothing more than that.
Personally, I love the drive quality of some of the older cars. My Merc is distinctly Mercedes. My XR2 was distinctly Ford. Nowadays, all cars seem so similar. Yeah, reliable, comfortable, economical but so similar and lacking any character. The only difference between car A and B is horse power. It's all a bit dull.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
I agree with Pinno. Plenty of youngsters like cars and motorbikes, whether repairing them or tarting them up for racing/rallying. Some of my younger cousins have a thing for doing up old Hondas in an effort to squeeze ever more from them. I've no idea why you would torment an old Honda Civic this way, kids eh :roll:Ecrasez l’infame0
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There are some yoof that are interested I agree, but we have seen our market shrinking. Admittedly we are only in one part of the classic car market only really doing English sports cars of the BL, BMC, JRT. A lot of interest has moved on to slightly later cars, as shown by the cars listed above. The customers we have are all getting older and not as many are stepping in to replace them. Why would anyone buy an MGB if they wanted to drive the thing? An early MX5 is a lot better in so many ways.
My cousin in Italy was saying Fiat 500 prices have dropped over there. Everybody that had one thought they were sitting on a fortune, now the market is saturated.
Going to the classic car show at the NEC tomorrow, I wonder what the latest and least classic cars I see will be. Not necessarily the same thing.0 -
But I think that is the overlap between what will soon be classes as 'vintage' and 'classic'. E-types and the ilk will be classed as vintage soon for example (even though they are ostensibly monocoque chassis). E-types in good condition are extortionate and well beyond the reach of mere mortals like us. I've heard of E-type restoration jobs costing in excess of £30k.
There can't be many TR4's, Maserati Bora's, a '56 Testarossa or MGB GT's that haven't been restored or aren't owned by someone who is not going to part with it and it will sit in either a custodial agreement at a local museum or in a private garage and get passed on in a will.
It's the middle market where you see car prices increasing exponentially. The stuff that can be done by DIY enthusiasts and are affordable. (IMHO).seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Loads of rough MGB GTs around. They aren't worth enough to justify restoring them. You can spend way more than £30k restoring an E type. Double it and add some.
The thing that annoys me with these, especially the MG market, is that people are so f'ing tight with spares. Given the choice between spending £3 for a crappy rotor arm that will leave you stranded or £7 for a good one that will work the majority will buy the cheap one, even after being told it will fail.0 -
If anyone is after a tip, the mk1 mx5 is 100% guaranteed to go up in value in the next ten years purely because I sold mine three years ago. 89k on the clock, great condition, UK spec. I'd regret it even if it was worth nothing. To top it off it was my first car. If only I had a garage to keep it in0
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Veronese68 wrote:Loads of rough MGB GTs around. They aren't worth enough to justify restoring them. You can spend way more than £30k restoring an E type. Double it and add some.
The thing that annoys me with these, especially the MG market, is that people are so f'ing tight with spares. Given the choice between spending £3 for a crappy rotor arm that will leave you stranded or £7 for a good one that will work the majority will buy the cheap one, even after being told it will fail.
Yes but MG's are sh1t.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
I really can't argue with that.Pinno wrote:Yes but MG's are sh1t.0 -
Bikes`n`guns wrote:Anyhoo.
BMW E46 330ci is a future classic and an awsome daily driver. Cost me 3.5k with 50k on the clock and a full history.
Mines is an auto and I always manage 30+mpg, up to 36 on a longer run.
and 145mph in near silence.
Interesting. I had a tidy one about 7 years ago. When I sold it. I struggled to give it away.
Two biggest regrets selling were my Evo 6 which I needed to sell around the credit crunch at its worst. Those have gone up and up.
I then stupidly sold my very tidy E46 M3. Not for a low price. But again tidy ones of these have sky rocketed. I pine for that car all the time.
Currently have a Megane RS250 (MK3) I love the thing to death. So capable for the money and an absolute hoot to drive. Also a Mk5 Golf R32. Which I am struggling to part with.
My father had a chance years ago to buy an Original Ford GT40 when they first came out. He passed on it, as it was a little bit too expensive. They are now worth an absolute fortune.
Hindsight though.......0 -
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Veronese68 wrote:
I really can't argue with that.Pinno wrote:Yes but MG's are sh1t.
Neither can I -- most British cars were awful -- when I bought the Vw bug you can see what a difference there is.0 -
twist83 wrote:Bikes`n`guns wrote:Anyhoo.
BMW E46 330ci is a future classic and an awsome daily driver. Cost me 3.5k with 50k on the clock and a full history.
Mines is an auto and I always manage 30+mpg, up to 36 on a longer run.
E46 M3
E46's will always be classic, no matter what running gear is underneath. Two colleagues of mine (in a relationship with each other) both had one at the same time, his a 330ci cab, hers some monster diesel hard top, and both regret selling. The M3 is one of my favourite cars of all time, but I just can't justify the running costs. In terms of stuff like fuel economy, going for a 'spirited' drive will return single mpg figures, and even a independent BMW specialist will ask you for upwards of £600 for an Inspection 2. The dream is a yellow cabriolet with black roof.
The 330ci is probably the best compromise, but I'm currently contemplating a 530d.The only disability in life is a poor attitude.0 -
Older 5 series are actually going quite cheap. I really like the 530d.
I do like the E46 cl B Em's and you can get dirty diesel one's which would probably be more cheap to run.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Pinno wrote:Older 5 series are actually going quite cheap. I really like the 530d.
Looking for an estate ('Touring'?), a friends Dad recently sold one but it had been abused in a previous life - turbo problems, and had been chipped to within an inch of its life. Most have been to the moon a couple of times, but that's ok with a good history behind it.
(Volvo) T5's are ten a penny if you can live with the drabness. They just don't have the spark for me that I get from something with a propeller on the badge - I think it's psychological, because I drive metal from Scania for a living and can't shake the Scandinavian connection.The only disability in life is a poor attitude.0 -
Mouth wrote:Pinno wrote:Older 5 series are actually going quite cheap. I really like the 530d.
Looking for an estate ('Touring'?), a friends Dad recently sold one but it had been abused in a previous life - turbo problems, and had been chipped to within an inch of its life. Most have been to the moon a couple of times, but that's ok with a good history behind it.
(Volvo) T5's are ten a penny if you can live with the drabness. They just don't have the spark for me that I get from something with a propeller on the badge - I think it's psychological, because I drive metal from Scania for a living and can't shake the Scandinavian connection.
I only had the privilege of driving Scania's at the old MOD site at Quedgley - shifting trailers around :roll:
My wagon was an Actros. :Orrible. 'Orrible seat with variable bounce. Weak clutch. I once drove a flatbed for some company delivering tarpaulin's for making marquees and tents. The only truck I had with a rear view mirror. It had an exhaust brake - button on the floor which had no effect whatsoever.
Anyway, back OT, I quite like the V70. Dunno why.
Think it had a Renault engine.
Never owned a Volvo.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
It was the old 440/460 480 coupe that had the Renault engine,I think this one had a loose connection to VW,the early T4 vans had a 5 cylinder 2.4 engine,people convert this engine to a turbo by using the turbo and cylinder head off an 850 early S/V70 tdiPinno wrote:Mouth wrote:Pinno wrote:Older 5 series are actually going quite cheap. I really like the 530d.
Looking for an estate ('Touring'?), a friends Dad recently sold one but it had been abused in a previous life - turbo problems, and had been chipped to within an inch of its life. Most have been to the moon a couple of times, but that's ok with a good history behind it.
(Volvo) T5's are ten a penny if you can live with the drabness. They just don't have the spark for me that I get from something with a propeller on the badge - I think it's psychological, because I drive metal from Scania for a living and can't shake the Scandinavian connection.
I only had the privilege of driving Scania's at the old MOD site at Quedgley - shifting trailers around :roll:
My wagon was an Actros. :Orrible. 'Orrible seat with variable bounce. Weak clutch. I once drove a flatbed for some company delivering tarpaulin's for making marquees and tents. The only truck I had with a rear view mirror. It had an exhaust brake - button on the floor which had no effect whatsoever.
Anyway, back OT, I quite like the V70. Dunno why.
Think it had a Renault engine.
Never owned a Volvo.
My old man always drove Volvos so I grew up with them,the last one had was 3ltr V90 estate 24v straight 6 all bells and whistles for the time I drove it for a short time when he passed away,I used to quite like shocking BMW drivers with it
A guy who I worked with about 10 years ago had a V70 T5R 250bhp? that was bloody quick for a big estate car,there was a programme on Quest a couple of years back called Engine Addict,and they squeezed 700bhp+ out of this engine
5 cylinder engines have such a lovely sound as well as do a V100
