Delusional Bertie

245

Comments

  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,142
    knedlicky wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    For me he is the winner of that Giro, they let him race and there is no evidence he cheated to win it.
    This.

    They let him race and there is no evidence he cheated to win it, but he isn't the winner of that Giro.

    I think it's great when dopers think their punishment is unfair - it kind of starts to balance things out.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    even if it was accidental contamination he should have got a mandatory sit out. the regs need sorting out because backdating is highly problematic.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • smithy21
    smithy21 Posts: 2,204
    Best advice to Bertie- keep your head down son, you probably came out in front overall.
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    smithy21 wrote:
    Best advice to Bertie- keep your head down son, you probably came out in front overall.


    si si
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    smithy21 wrote:
    Best advice to Bertie- keep your head down son, you probably came out in front overall.
    But he's playing to his fan base, not us. During the Vuelta, Fran Reyes on the Cycling Podcast said that his popularity in Spain increased a large amount at the time of the affair due to the perception of him as a wronged victim of circumstance
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • silvergrenade
    silvergrenade Posts: 79
    RichN95 wrote:
    smithy21 wrote:
    Best advice to Bertie- keep your head down son, you probably came out in front overall.
    But he's playing to his fan base, not us. During the Vuelta, Fran Reyes on the Cycling Podcast said that his popularity in Spain increased a large amount at the time of the affair due to the perception of him as a wronged victim of circumstance
    Very interesting if true.
    From what I perceive, Contador's image took a real beating after the Peurto Scandal + Clen Positive.
  • Coach H
    Coach H Posts: 1,092
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    Occasionally, I've contemplated the possibility of Bertie being falsely accused; but then I think of this photo - and remember that there was also Jorg Jaksche and Vinokourov (amongst others) thrown into the mix at the time and laugh at my own naivety...Lib_Roadman2_Oct05_2.JPG

    [Sarcasm on] Whats your point? He was in a team of talented sportsmen managed by an insirational leader? [Sarcasm off]
    Coach H. (Dont ask me for training advice - 'It's not about the bike')
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    Coach H wrote:
    [Sarcasm on] Whats your point? He was in a team of talented sportsmen managed by an insirational leader? [Sarcasm off]

    I kind of miss Saiz. I doubt you'd see Brailsford pinning a camera motorbike against a fence with a team car, whilst screaming "you son of a whore" at the cameraman on live TV.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    andyp wrote:
    Coach H wrote:
    [Sarcasm on] Whats your point? He was in a team of talented sportsmen managed by an insirational leader? [Sarcasm off]

    I kind of miss Saiz. I doubt you'd see Brailsford pinning a camera motorbike against a fence with a team car, whilst screaming "you son of a whore" at the cameraman on live TV.

    early days. he lost his shape with what's his name :)
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Bo Duke
    Bo Duke Posts: 1,058
    Obviously cycling went through an indisputable period of doping which not only haunts the reputation of those involved but also in hindsight frustrated the careers of many cyclists who failed to break into the big time or failed to be successful as a consequence. Yes Berti rode very strongly in the last week of the Vuelta, but he and other dopers left a trail of broken dreams in their slip streams and no doubt a lot of ex-peloton riders who never quite made it waved a couple of fingers at the tv screen as he rode off into the sunset. Let's not forget the 'collateral damage' caused by doping.
    'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    What's happening with all the blood bags in the freezer. Or is that all done and dusted now?
  • simonwbooth
    simonwbooth Posts: 6
    I like the irony of this comment
    In previous interviews he has said that he has taken retirement as an opportunity to eat everything that he hasn't been able to as a rider.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    Maybe, reading between the lines, he feels it's an injustice as everybody was doping/ is doping. I can sort of understand why Armstrong might feel that way, too.

    Cycling hasn't changed and it never will. Just look at Sky getting testosterone delivered accidentally...
  • silvergrenade
    silvergrenade Posts: 79
    nickice wrote:
    Maybe, reading between the lines, he feels it's an injustice as everybody was doping/ is doping. I can sort of understand why Armstrong might feel that way, too.

    Cycling hasn't changed and it never will. Just look at Sky getting testosterone delivered accidentally...
    Never?
    As cycling fans we must believe. One day it might happen. :D
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    nickice wrote:

    Cycling hasn't changed and it never will. Just look at Sky getting testosterone delivered accidentally...

    But that never happened. British cycling may have got testosterone accidentally delivered. What never changes in cycling is the facts moving to support belief structures.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • twotoebenny
    twotoebenny Posts: 1,542
    iainf72 wrote:
    nickice wrote:

    Cycling hasn't changed and it never will. Just look at Sky getting testosterone delivered accidentally...

    But that never happened. British cycling may have got testosterone accidentally delivered. What never changes in cycling is the facts moving to support belief structures.


    Thanks for clearing that up iainf, I thought I'd missed some news!
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    iainf72 wrote:
    nickice wrote:

    Cycling hasn't changed and it never will. Just look at Sky getting testosterone delivered accidentally...

    But that never happened. British cycling may have got testosterone accidentally delivered. What never changes in cycling is the facts moving to support belief structures.

    Word
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    iainf72 wrote:
    What never changes in cycling is the facts moving to support belief structures.
    Off topic and nothing to do with doping, but a false fact that keeps being mentioned is that previous multiple Tour winners didn't have strong teams. It's nonsense. Molteni had 6 riders in the top 30 in 1972, Renault 6 in 1982, La Vie Claire 6 in 1986, Z 5 in 1990. (Sky's peak 5 in 2016)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    iainf72 wrote:
    nickice wrote:

    Cycling hasn't changed and it never will. Just look at Sky getting testosterone delivered accidentally...

    But that never happened. British cycling may have got testosterone accidentally delivered. What never changes in cycling is the facts moving to support belief structures.

    Technically, that's true but, seriously, British Cycling and Sky were so intertwined at the time and the doctor was working for both.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    silvergrenade wrote:
    nickice wrote:
    Maybe, reading between the lines, he feels it's an injustice as everybody was doping/ is doping. I can sort of understand why Armstrong might feel that way, too.

    Cycling hasn't changed and it never will. Just look at Sky getting testosterone delivered accidentally...
    Never?
    As cycling fans we must believe. One day it might happen. :D


    I've come to accept it and, in my head, they're all on a level playing field. I just don't read Breaking the Chain again.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    RichN95 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    What never changes in cycling is the facts moving to support belief structures.
    Off topic and nothing to do with doping, but a false fact that keeps being mentioned is that previous multiple Tour winners didn't have strong teams. It's nonsense. Molteni had 6 riders in the top 30 in 1972, Renault 6 in 1982, La Vie Claire 6 in 1986, Z 5 in 1990. (Sky's peak 5 in 2016)

    yeah of course but most didnt have such boring team leader.... :lol:

    anyhow Contador is great rider and i ll miss him, i dont agree with his lose of titles nor for that matter LAs either, they won the race against the opposition at the time, the vast majority, if not all were also doping.

    My outrage at drugs was around the time the festina affair, since then we ve all supported pro racing and surely must have realised these performances were nt fuelled in someway? but we still bought the gear and cheered them on.....
    If you cant accept that doping has played a huge part in pro cycling, then follow another sport.

    for me pro cycling is now about entertainment rather than pure athletic performance, i wish it were different but i dont believe it is.

    if someone can name a legend of a rider who isnt linked to drugs, i d like to know.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    mamba80 wrote:
    if someone can name a legend of a rider who isnt linked to drugs, i d like to know.

    Drugs as in PED's?

    Boonen in that case.

    Or Lemond.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    iainf72 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    if someone can name a legend of a rider who isnt linked to drugs, i d like to know.

    Drugs as in PED's?

    Boonen in that case.

    Or Lemond.

    Boardman and Obree. And I won't listen to anyone saying they're not legends.
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    inseine wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    if someone can name a legend of a rider who isnt linked to drugs, i d like to know.

    Drugs as in PED's?

    Boonen in that case.

    Or Lemond.

    Boardman and Obree. And I won't listen to anyone saying they're not legends.

    Oh, and Cadel Evans.
    You know where this is going? Define legend :/
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Boardman needs uplifting in status. his career kinda shaped/pointed to the methodologies of the modern peloton. Even if it wasn't all him so to speak.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    iainf72 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    if someone can name a legend of a rider who isnt linked to drugs, i d like to know.

    Drugs as in PED's?

    Boonen in that case.

    Or Lemond.

    I think Boonen is great but I'd be surprised if he hadn't doped during his career. Especially as Belgian fans seem to be relatively indifferent to doping. Of course, he's not a GT rider and there doesn't tend to be as much focus on the classics when it comes to doping.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    nickice wrote:

    I think Boonen is great but I'd be surprised if he hadn't doped during his career. Especially as Belgian fans seem to be relatively indifferent to doping. Of course, he's not a GT rider and there doesn't tend to be as much focus on the classics when it comes to doping.

    You can't move the goal posts. You asked if there was a legend who hasn't been linked with drugs, Iain provides you with one, and you then find excuses to discard this.

    I'll give you another one, Bettini. You can argue that he doped as much as you like, but there is zero evidence in the public domain to support that argument.
  • MiddleRinger
    MiddleRinger Posts: 678
    Contador was/is an incredible rider to watch. Loved his style. Especially awesome seeing him crushing it up climbs dancing on the pedals like a devil, but....

    DISCOVERY CHANNEL
    ASTANA

    Where there's smoke and all that.
    ~ ~ How fast is fast enough? ~ ~ ~ ~ Tempo Cyclist - Tasmania ~ ~
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    andyp wrote:
    nickice wrote:

    I think Boonen is great but I'd be surprised if he hadn't doped during his career. Especially as Belgian fans seem to be relatively indifferent to doping. Of course, he's not a GT rider and there doesn't tend to be as much focus on the classics when it comes to doping.

    You can't move the goal posts. You asked if there was a legend who hasn't been linked with drugs, Iain provides you with one, and you then find excuses to discard this.



    I'll give you another one, Bettini. You can argue that he doped as much as you like, but there is zero evidence in the public domain to support that argument.


    I didn't ask the question....I wouldn't have either as I think it's a pretty silly question. I'm just pretty sure Boonen isn't clean as I think most classics winners aren't clean.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    nickice wrote:


    I didn't ask the question....I wouldn't have either as I think it's a pretty silly question. I'm just pretty sure Boonen isn't clean as I think most classics winners aren't clean.

    Based on what though? His reputation in the peloton has always been one of a clean athlete, the things he says would support that.

    The other obvious legend I should've mentioned is Cavendish.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

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