Delusional Bertie

Dorset_Boy

The injustice is that the ban wasn't longer, he raced on and screwed the Giro when he should have been suspended, that the ban then wasn't from when he last rode rather than effectively being a few months etc., etc :roll:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-being-stripped-of-2010-tour-and-2011-giro-was-a-tremendous-injustice/

Until he can face reality he has no place in the sport.

DeVlaeminck

For me he is the winner of that Giro, they let him race and there is no evidence he cheated to win it.

RichN95.

DeVlaeminck wrote:

For me he is the winner of that Giro, they let him race and there is no evidence he cheated to win it.

Yeah, backdated bans are a nonsense to me. He should have sat out the ban in full (and therefore missed to 2012 Vuelta, so it would still be seven wins).

Ultimately, though, none of us know how that drug got in his system. It could be cheating, it could be contamination. It's hard to definitively call him a doper with any kind of certainty.

Dorset_Boy

Pretty hard to conceive he raced clean before his ban when you consider who he rode for, and who he put to the sword.
Odd how his performances tailed off so much post his short ban - could have understood that tail off more if he were older and the ban from racing had been for more than a few months.
He should never have been allowed to take the start in the 2011 Giro.

lostboysaint

Dorset Boy wrote:

Pretty hard to conceive he raced clean before his ban when you consider who he rode for, and who he put to the sword.
Odd how his performances tailed off so much post his short ban - could have understood that tail off more if he were older and the ban from racing had been for more than a few months.
He should never have been allowed to take the start in the 2011 Giro.

That!

kingstongraham

DeVlaeminck wrote:

For me he is the winner of that Giro, they let him race and there is no evidence he cheated to win it.

They let him race pending an appeal didn't they? Given the date of the offence, he should have lost the Giro, and then his two year ban started when his appeal failed.

Richmond Racer 2

Gawd, it would be so much simpler if he'd been popped for EPO or the like

The excuse has always done it for me - a Spanish steak from a visiting mate on a rest day. Come on.

RichN95.

KingstonGraham wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

For me he is the winner of that Giro, they let him race and there is no evidence he cheated to win it.

They let him race pending an appeal didn't they? Given the date of the offence, he should have lost the Giro, and then his two year ban started when his appeal failed.

He was originally cleared by Spanish anti-doping though. You can't really stop someone racing who had been cleared.

In retrospect he would have been better off taking the initially proposed one year ban (before the Spanish PM got involved). I think everyone would have been OK with that. He would have been back for the 2011 Vuelta (and who knows how that might have effected Froome's subsequent career)

lostboysaint

RichN95 wrote:

He was originally cleared by Spanish anti-doping though.

I'm sorry but that sentence really raised a smile.

Richmond Racer 2

When the King of Spain gets involved....

bigmat

I was finally warming to him at the Vuelta and then he comes out with this - honestly, he's such a tw*t!

FocusZing

I would imagine in these situations they get drawn on the subject and have to say something. If they admit guilt then the reporters go in for the kill with the rest of the sh1t at every opportunity.

silvergrenade

RichN95 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

For me he is the winner of that Giro, they let him race and there is no evidence he cheated to win it.

Yeah, backdated bans are a nonsense to me. He should have sat out the ban in full (and therefore missed to 2012 Vuelta, so it would still be seven wins).

Ultimately, though, none of us know how that drug got in his system. It could be cheating, it could be contamination. It's hard to definitively call him a doper with any kind of certainty.

None of us know but there are strong indications how it got in his system and its surely not through meat.
Except for delusional Bertie fans, not one person believes in the meat story.

kingstongraham

FocusZing wrote:

I would imagine in these situations they get drawn on the subject and have to say something. If they admit guilt then the reporters go in for the kill with the rest of the sh1t at every opportunity.

"I don't know how it got into my system, and I've served the penalty that was imposed on me." would do it.

RichN95.

silvergrenade wrote:

None of us know but there are strong indications how it got in his system and its surely not through meat.
Except for delusional Bertie fans, not one person believes in the meat story.

But the problem is I don't find any of the other stories particularly convincing either

m.r.m.

Because every single story is hogwash. I can still remember Dieter Baumann winning Olympic gold and then claiming his positive probe came from contaminated toothpaste in Germany. It's just dumb because people prefer to believe in the glorious fantasy than the somber reality.

RichN95.

I meant all of the stories of how clenbuterol came to be in Contador's system. Both the defence's stories and the prosecution's.

bobmcstuff

RichN95 wrote:

silvergrenade wrote:

None of us know but there are strong indications how it got in his system and its surely not through meat.
Except for delusional Bertie fans, not one person believes in the meat story.

But the problem is I don't find any of the other stories particularly convincing either

That article with the interview from Dr Ashenden that was posted on here a while back made a pretty plausible case.

RichN95.

bobmcstuff wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

silvergrenade wrote:

None of us know but there are strong indications how it got in his system and its surely not through meat.
Except for delusional Bertie fans, not one person believes in the meat story.

But the problem is I don't find any of the other stories particularly convincing either

That article with the interview from Dr Ashenden that was posted on here a while back made a pretty plausible case.

I actually read that again. He stressed he had been laying out the possibility of a transfusion having taken place, rather than proving that it had. (And I think that the plasticizer test has since been proved to be deeply flawed).

While I wouldn't want to defend Contador being a clean rider throughout, I equally have to consider the very real possibility that the clenbuterol positive genuinely was due to misfortune rather than malice.

angry_bird

While I'm dubious as to whether he spent his whole career clean, the clenbuterol via food story at least seems feasible. It shouldn't be entering the food chain really, at least not in an amount that's going to have any impact, but it's not unheard of for farmers over here to ignore withdrawal periods on medications if they know there's little chance of them being tested for, so why not in other countries?

RichN95.

Angry Bird wrote:

While I'm dubious as to whether he spent his whole career clean, the clenbuterol via food story at least seems feasible. It shouldn't be entering the food chain really, at least not in an amount that's going to have any impact, but it's not unheard of for farmers over here to ignore withdrawal periods on medications if they know there's little chance of them being tested for, so why not in other countries?

I found it funny when at the time some of those dismissing the beef story stated that 'clenbuterol couldn't be in use as the cows had never failed a drug test' with no sense of irony.

fleshtuxedo

Such a distasteful episode the whole thing. The blatant alibi collision from his team mates was particularly transparent. People who'd not eaten the steak but only saw it carried past them agreeing verbatim that it was "like butter".
His form in the last week of this years vuelta was unfathomable, and yet commentators were in tears at his retirement.
It's a funny old game, Saint.

above_the_cows

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

When the King of Spain gets involved....

An endangered animal dies?

ddraver

I ve laid my opinions on him out many a time, safe to say I'm glad he's gone. Until he and Ivan learn a bit of humility they have no place running a team with young cyclists.

r0bh

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

When the King of Spain gets involved....

What's this got to do with England spin bowler Ashley Giles?

(niche cricket joke)

wombly_knees

Ha! And wheelie bins generally don't mind it being dirty. Blofield remains a dick though.

mfin

Puerto. I don't think anyone of sound mind who followed everything as it happened or has read the history of it in detail could think anything more than Contador got away with it big time on that occasion.

Some of his big performances early in his career absolutely stank in the same way as Armstrong's or Riis' did, to people who didn't witness these try watching the Rasmussen Contador duals from 2007. I think most people can accept Rasmussen who admitted to 12 years of doping was doping and that him being kicked off that tour for doping meant he was doping, and 2007 was in the great days of EPO, but Contador was clean? Was he f**k.

The 2010 Clen excuse was an insult to peoples' intelligence, utterly laughable. I believe it was a result of re-introduction to his bloodstream during blood doping, where it was taken months earlier to strip fat and get to race weight. In fact, that's the only real reason for it being there apart from by accident, because there is no point in taking it during a tour (of course it was obvious it was not this from the tiny amounts).

It is strange how characters like him seem to like to sound hard done by, but I suppose when they know so many others were doping they feel they have a right to have a cry about it.

...aaaannnyway, it's going to be great to have him gone next year, it's a shame his career is worth nothing but for a pre-disposition to have a crack at taking the race on rather than sit in.

knedlicky

DeVlaeminck wrote:

For me he is the winner of that Giro, they let him race and there is no evidence he cheated to win it.

This.

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

The excuse has always done it for me - a Spanish steak from a visiting mate on a rest day

Yes, and maybe it was actually a horse steak - where clen is often present (I don't know if which type of steak was ever determined).

FleshTuxedo wrote:

People who'd not eaten the steak but only saw it carried past them agreeing verbatim that it was "like butter"

A steak looking like butter is much more likely because of a high iron content, not added clen. (And increased iron intake is valuable to anyone in high-intensity sport, but not forbidden).

mfin wrote:

it's going to be great to have him gone next year

Glad you will be happy.

Bo Duke

They all try to clear their names in retirement to ensure the endorsements, sponsorship and book royalties continue to flow and the wider public will be sympathetic.

No way Bertie boy.... don't go down the LA route.

argyllflyer

As noted above, he in all likelihood blood-doped on the rest day and reintroduced blood from the off-season which contained the clen. Thing is, he probably is innocent of what he was found guilty of, so in his own mind he probably is justified in standing up and saying 'I WAS WRONGED!'. Dirty Bertie he remains though.

ocdupalais

Occasionally, I've contemplated the possibility of Bertie being falsely accused; but then I think of this photo - and remember that there was also Jorg Jaksche and Vinokourov (amongst others) thrown into the mix at the time and laugh at my own naivety...